Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

I wanted to take a little time and address an issue that is coming to the forefront in the furniture industry. The whole internet thing has really set the industry on its ear, where today its so easy to go into a brick and mortar store to shop styles and samples, then seek lower prices from around the country and have furniture shipped in. This creates problems that may lead to a change in policies that will effectively cut out all internet/mail orders by preventing dealers from drop shipping orders. If all orders have to go to a dealer's store first, then freight costs to long distance customers will double or even triple.

It's generally thought that internet/mail order dealers cannibalize sales from local brick and mortar stores and to a large degree that's true. I do a substantial amount of long distance sales, but I prefer to EARN them by advice, knowledge and service. For the record, I will never suggest a customer go into a local store to shop, use their samples and then call my store with an order. That is unethical and I would never ask my customers do that. I will always be glad to provide samples free of charge to those that request them.

If you decide to order long distance instead of buying locally, please keep the following in mind:

1) You are the customer of the selling dealer, and all issues or problems need be addressed through the selling dealer. Not the manufacturer.

2) Shipping damages are likely to result from using less expensive delivery companies. "You get what you pay for" applies to that kind of service as well. The top delivery companies (which will be the most expensive) will also be the least likely to damage your new pieces. And if you get damages, its between you and the selling dealer in conjunction with the shipper, not the manufacturer.

3) When you go into your local store and ask them to meet the lower price from an internet/mail order seller, that inflames the situation and angry phone calls result. Don't do that.

Now, if you are like most people you will read the above and say "Its my money, I'll do what I want and call whom I want to call". I understand that. However, I also understand that when consumers decide to write their own rules and make angry calls to the manufacturers, its very much noted and the end result is that many of these name brand companies are looking to shut down all internet and mail order sales because of it. That applies equally to dealers calling in angry because another dealer across the country is beating their prices.

How do they intend solve the problem? By shipping only to the brick and mortar store and eliminate all drop ships. I have reason to believe this is being actively discussed among several large companies. If these new policies go into force, then the consumer will lose out in the end, as you will have far fewer choices from who to buy from. Double or triple the freight charges will negate any savings you might have realized.

So this post is basically a public service post! if you place a value on having choices, read the (3) points above and act accordingly. Remember that YOU are the customer of the dealer you chose to buy from. The dealer is the customer of the manufacturer.

It concerns me greatly that we are about to see changes come in these regards and that will hugely effect the current business model. While I am not so naive as to think that making this post will change things, perhaps if enough people read it and actually heed it - some of the heat and pressure manufacturers are getting may subside in acting on shutting down internet and mail order sales of their product.

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Originally Posted by drcollie

How to they solve the problem? Ship only to the brick and mortar store and eliminate all drop ships. I have reason to believe this is being actively discussed among several large companies. If these new policies go into force, then the consumer will lose out in the end, as you will have far fewer choices from who to buy from. Double or triple the freight charges will negate any savings you might have realized.

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The furniture industry has always seemed to me to be living in the past and very slow to adopt to the new reality of commerce, and this would just be more evidence of that.

All things being equal, I'd prefer to buy locally (especially when it comes to furniture). That said, many furniture stores here charge as much as 3-4 times as much as their counterparts out of state. I understand that the cost of running a brick and mortar store will vary depending on the location, but the markups here are insane. That's what drives people to shop online. Your points are good ones, but they, like the potential actions by the manufacturers, seem to just be more evidence of an industry that is either unwilling to or unable to adopt to a changing landscape.

I am totally shocked that the companies are even considering halting mail order or internet orders.Just like the previous member ,even I like/prefer to buy locally,when I was recently in the market shopping for a H and M sofa,I visited he local dealer,the dealer had just 1 ,just 1 piece of H and M sofa,that's been sitting there for 1 year and is on sale,no new shipments were expected for the next 4 months,they had ton of leather swatches but unable to explain to me the different leather grades and options.And,their prices 2-3 times what I found out through internet stores.,infact even compared to a brick and mortar store in NC.I had to make 3 trips just to speak to the right person with minimal knowledge of H&M pieces,most of the sales people were novices just out off college and call themselves interior designers.Now ,someone at H&M and every other high end manufacturer tell me ,why they would want to move their business from the experts on some of the mail order/internet stores into the hands of know nothing/know something recent college grads.That's never a good business model to sell high end furniture where in addition to the quality of the pieces,customer service and knowledge of the products sold counts immensely.My two cents(rant).thanks.

All the better furniture stores in my area went out of business. No one out here buys furniture anywhere except places like Ashley or Living Spaces. I won't buy such poor quality for my home.

I looked and priced furniture in the general area. I had to go out to a more affluent area. The stores are a bit snooty, but even so no one had the knowledge that Duane has and the markups out here in Ca are crazy high. The world has changed, people in the know are trying to get the best and the most for their money.

If I could have bought locally and paid a reasonable amount I would have, but when the local stores charge a 4x markup even on sale, well that would just be stupid. I just can't afford to throw away my hard earned money.

I didn't use the local stores to shop and then buy from Duane as I never even saw the pieces I ordered in a store. The only thing I did get from the local guy's was seeing the quality of H&M pieces. For us this was almost a year long process. I was not aware of H&M until I found this forum.

Oh and I have never told anyone in a B&M store that I ordered my furniture from a dealer on the other side of the country.

I hope that companies don't halt the internet/mail order business. They may just find themselves with much less orders coming in.


As I posted about my experience with the Keeping Room Duane made ordering long distance very easy for us. I spoke with him a few times and he was and is very easy to talk to I depended on his experience and expertise and advice and it was much appreciated. I love my new furniture and am very glad that I ordered it from Duane, and quite frankly I would not have been able to afford it had I tried to buy locally.

I agree the internet is here to stay, and in fact it will become much more of a force in consumer buying, not less. I know myself - I do most my own personal shopping at night on the computer and am a big Amazon Prime customer. Why do I want to get in the car and go to the drugstore for contact lens solution and then to a hardware store for a replacement garage door opener when I can make three clicks of a mouse and have it show up at my door? Its not even about the cost savings, its about the convenience.

I agree the furniture industry is old school, and behind the times in many ways. Most communication is still done by fax, for example. We are just beginning to see software that lets dealers check order status with the makers, something the car industry had 20 years ago. They will have to come kicking and complaining into the 21st century and embrace the technology, not shun it.

Price shopping is inevitable, and consumers have a right to do that - everyone knows that. You buy from whom you are comfortable doing business with. However, the view is that virtually all internet / mail order sales are 'stolen' from a brick and mortar dealer local to a customer, and that consumer is using the local B&M store to make selections, gain knowledge, and then goes price shopping when they have their picks. Doing business both as a B&M store and an Internet retailer, I know how it is to be on both sides of it. There is nothing that makes me more upset than to spend four or five hours sometimes over several days with a couple and look at their room layouts, make suggestions, explain for hours on end about things and then they write down their selections and do everything but order ..... then they go price shopping. I will often get a call back in a few hours and they will say " Store X just beat your price by $ xxxx, if you will match their price we will buy from you - and you have to eat the sales tax as well". Know what I do? I decline the sale. First of all, I can't 'eat' the sales tax, that's illegal. The other dealer is out-of-state and is not required to collect it - but I have to pay it. Secondly, I get offended as I have put hours and hours of time into helping them with their selections and I'm thrown under the bus as if that didn't matter. So I know how the other dealers become furious when their customers come into their stores and present that to them - and their response is to call the manufacturer and rage about that lower-selling dealer. The B&M store owners will demand the Manufacturer control these discounters or else they won't have floor model presence on their showroom floors! It happens every day.

Secondly, the Internet Discounters are acutely aware that the reason they are getting many of the sales is because of price and price alone. So naturally, the consumer wants the cheapest shipping rates, too. And believe me, there are plenty of smaller delivery operations (think: two guys and a truck) that will delivery for far less than the pros at Sun Delivery - whom I use exclusively because they do it right. The trouble is, what these cheaper delivery companies handle the most is inexpensive made-in-China furniture, where a sofa is $ 399 and a chair $ 149. They will treat your $ 6,000 high-end leather sofa in the same manner as the $ 400 one. When there are small damages to the pieces such as rub marks / chips / tears and cuts the cheapo delivery company is long gone and not taking calls on it and the Internet Discounter says "Its not my problem - contact the delivery company." Angry consumers then call the manufacturer and demand someone fix their new $ 6K sofa.

Finally, try to get service from a deep discounter if an issue arises. It's not there and they duck/ignore calls. The consumer them calls the manufacturer to complain and that adds onto the pile yet once again.

So, the manufacturer gets enough of these calls from upset end use customers and agitated Brick and Mortar store owners, they look to shut down the flow of such things. The easy solution? Kill off the internet sellers. How do you do that? Don't let them drop ship from the loading dock, all product has to go to their stores direct. And that will be highly effective as 1) It eliminates the damage calls entirely. If the dealer is accepting delivery, then there is no 3rd party white glove service. 2) Internet sellers would have to buy or lease a warehouse to stage the furniture, adding to overhead. A 2,500 s.f staging warehouse in my part of the world would cost $ 40,000 a year to lease, for example. That has to be covered in the price charged for goods. 3) There would be freight costs to that warehouse, and then outbound again to a retail end buyer, effectively doubling to tripling freight charges and giving the advantage back to the B&M store.

I am alarmed by what I hear as I have many - MANY customers across the country that I've not 'stolen' from their local B&M store, but have honest and viable working relationships with that are cultivated through help, assistance and trust. Some of my customers are not within a day's drive of a local B&M dealer in the line and are only buying on-line due to their remote locations of where they live. It will cost them a lot more for their pieces if drop-ships are not allowed.

How can you as a consumer help? Well, don't add fuel to the fire. AVOID calling the Manufacturers with complaints and issues - work only through your selling dealer. AVOID agitating your local brick and mortar dealer by asking them to match prices to an internet seller. AVOID buying from the cheapest guy if you expect any level of service after the sale. Shop smart and check reputations.

I'm not quite sure if the horse is out of the barn on this or not....but there's enough static on this topic making the rounds in the trade that I've very concerned about it.

The problem is, they'll finally decide to kill the drop ship/internet sales just as the meaty part of the high-end furniture demographic shifts from a population with limited-to-negligible internet big-ticket purchasing habits to the Amazon generation(s) who negotiate the purchase of everything from their Prius to their pizzas with their smartphone and don't give a cr@p where the business on the other end of that web page is located. Others will jump in to fill that demand and the old-schoolers will have a heck of a time turning their lumbering business models around, let alone finding an open market niche in which to park them, just like KODAK.

Should be interesting, although I suppose that depends largely on from what point of view you watch it.

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Originally Posted by hglaber

The problem is, they'll finally decide to kill the drop ship/internet sales just as the meaty part of the high-end furniture demographic shifts from a population with limited-to-negligible internet big-ticket purchasing habits to the Amazon generation(s) who negotiate the purchase of everything from their Prius to their pizzas with their smartphone and don't give a cr@p where the business on the other end of that web page is located. Others will jump in to fill that demand and the old-schoolers will have a heck of a time turning their lumbering business models around, let alone finding an open market niche in which to park them, just like KODAK.

Should be interesting, although I suppose that depends largely on from what point of view you watch it.

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Dead on the money! More to the point, they might find themselves moving to direct to customer Internet sales in a last ditch effort to stay alive as China and other emerging markets continue to flood the markets and gradually up the value chain with improved quality and lower prices. The new money generation does not care about the buying habits of previous generations and "we" are a quite literally dying breed. If this were my business the challenges I would make to my dealer network would be based on their customer satisfaction ratings, not on what method they select to transact sales by.

I always choose made in America over made in China, which unfortunately is getting more and more difficult to do. So much furniture these days is crap, made overseas, and it's just not worth buying. But that, unfortunately, is what most of the stores seem to carry.

I try not to do what is being described in this thread - shopping locally and then buying (cheaper) via the Internet. If everyone continues to do this, then soon we will have no local stores to try stuff out and see what it looks like. Unfortunately, too many Wal-Mart shoppers are concerned only about price, not about the source or the impact on the long-term success of our country and businesses.

However, if I can't find what I want in a store near me, or if the store does not have the knowledge to proper market the product to me, or perhaps the owners are greedy and I don't feel that the markup is fair, then yes, I want that option and that ability to buy it from a distant store, over the phone or over the Internet. If I can't buy brand "A" from anyone except my local dealer and I don't like them (for whatever reason) then I'm going to buy brand "B".

Fortunately I live in NC, so if I need to buy furniture and can take the time to do it, I'll drive to High Point or Hickory and find what I need, order it, and I'm probably paying half of what most people do. But when I want to stay local and find something, I've found that the prices are too high and the quality is too low. So what are my options? Drive for 5 hours, or get on the Internet?

Michael

Sorry to resurrect a thread from a month ago, but I'd like to hear some people's opinions on shopping the local stores.

Thank you, Duane, for the forum and all of your knowledge.

I received three quotes on a sofa locally- the exact same sofa, same finish and everything- the spread was $1600. Three dealers local to me sell the same product and there are a few more that I didn't contact. When I got that large of a disparity in price, I went with the cheapest dealer- maybe it's wrong to do that? I couldn't see how it made sense to pay more- I'm supporting a local B&M store, just one that was a lot more aggressive on price than the other two and apparently, judging from the reaction of the other two dealers, he does this to them all the time.

I can't judge on after-sale service, yet.

Like I've always said there is a WIDE spread in pricing among dealers. I'd go with the least costly one locally as well as long as there are not several scathing reviews on service after the sale.

Duane, I appreciate your comments in this post and it is important for us as customers to be respectful and courteous to our local brick & mortar shops, and of anyone we are looking to do business with, including internet retailers. I hate paying taxes but the collecting of sales tax may help level the playing field, and I do take that into consideration shopping locally.

We started looking at furniture about a month ago. Started with Bassett, then we moved to Thomasville, Smith Brothers, Palliser, King Hickory and finally H&M, all at different furniture stores. I guessed we skipped BY, mostly because I ended up in your website. But I needed to find an H&M dealer to look at this line of furniture and even work up a price quote. And that's pretty much where it stands today. Now eventually I will thank him for showing the pieces and working with me, and either thanks or no thanks. Should I give him the opportunity to quote his best price or believe he has already done that? Which is what I typically believe. I hate buying a car for this reason. I will not mention any price you have provided, but weigh both considerations for their value, service and reputation. If the local B&M can provide a reasonable offer I will buy from him. I want to buy from him to support the local economy but not at unreasonable markups.

It’s difficult doing an internet business. You never meet me, I never met you. I would rather meet you face-to-face and ask you the questions I ask on this forum. That not possible, I read your reviews and testimonials, read your responses and advice given to me and others. I'm sure I know I lot more about you than you of me. From what I've read, I know you would like to meet your customers in person and help them, get to know them more than a sale. I imagine one reason for this forum was to do that. Not many internet retailers do what you are doing. Even more, you don't expect any of this advice and information to lead to a sale. You are trying to provide information to people, for us to make the best decision possible. Many will come to you and order for these reasons. Me being one of them.

Scott

I agree with Duane that it is unethical to shop at a local store and sample the products, select finishes, fabrics, etc. but then call an out-of-town store and order from them for a better price. I wouldn't do that. In fact, I haven't. I have purchased a lot of furniture from a North Carolina retailer that my family has done business with for years because they offer great prices but I always make the two-hour drive from my home in Atlanta to their store to make my selections. Anything else wouldn't be fair.

Likewise, I personally consider it inappropriate to come here, ask Duane 20 questions, get his advice and make choices then waltz into a local store and order something. I am sure Duane would say he doesn't mind but it sorta works both ways to me. He, and his forum have provided me with a wealth of information and I think in return he deserves the business.

My business has evolved into quite a few internet and distance sales - I think I have more customers in California and Texas than I do in Virginia and Maryland. I didn't plan it that way - it just happened! The forum was always designed as an information tool, free of charge to educate consumers about product and industry. I did not start it as a marketing tool, and as such don't get upset when folks don't order from me as that was never my intent in developing this research tool. So as long as folks use this venue to ask questions I'm good with all of it. Problems arise when people call me on the phone from around the country to get phone advice on how to fix their chair, or what I think of Brand "X", how I should suggest they handle an issue with their dealer whom they bought from, or look at an EBAY item for them. I simply cannot invest the time required during the day to take calls such as those, it has to be done via the public forum, where I can answer at midnight if I like. Sometimes that makes me come off harsh on the phone, but as I run a 1-man business I have all the accounting work to do, loading/unloading, processing, inventory, sales, etc. The day goes by fast and its all about time management.

I have always said you should buy where YOU are comfortable buying. You can get information here and go local to you - that's fine by me. All I ever ask is you don't print off my price quotes and walk them into another store and say "The Keeping Room" (or any other store for that matter) will sell this to me for "X", will you match it? Because that dealer goes ballistic and calls the Maker to complain, and then I (or the owner of another store) get the phone call on it from the CEO of whatever company is in question about my pricing models and internet sales policy. But as much as I preach not to do that - it has been done too many times already and I think you will see changes in the latter part of 2013 on pricing policies or being able to drop ship from many companies we talk about here on this forum. That is coming. At the end of the day a few people will ruin it for many in that respect and the pricing advantages are going to be leveled out. This industry is old school and doesn't really believe in internet sales, though they realize they are here to stay. What they will be doing is leveling the playing field in the near future to protect the brick and mortar stores from losing sales to those selling at a discount.

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Originally Posted by drcollie

My business has evolved into quite a few internet and distance sales - I think I have more customers in California and Texas than I do in Virginia and Maryland. I didn't plan it that way - it just happened! The forum was always designed as an information tool, free of charge to educate consumers about product and industry. I did not start it as a marketing tool, and as such don't get upset when folks don't order from me as that was never my intent in developing this research tool. So as long as folks use this venue to ask questions I'm good with all of it. Problems arise when people call me on the phone from around the country to get phone advice on how to fix their chair, or what I think of Brand "X", how I should suggest they handle an issue with their dealer whom they bought from, or look at an EBAY item for them. I simply cannot invest the time required during the day to take calls such as those, it has to be done via the public forum, where I can answer at midnight if I like. Sometimes that makes me come off harsh on the phone, but as I run a 1-man business I have all the accounting work to do, loading/unloading, processing, inventory, sales, etc. The day goes by fast and its all about time management.

I have always said you should buy where YOU are comfortable buying. You can get information here and go local to you - that's fine by me. All I ever ask is you don't print off my price quotes and walk them into another store and say "The Keeping Room" (or any other store for that matter) will sell this to me for "X", will you match it? Because that dealer goes ballistic and calls the Maker to complain, and then I (or the owner of another store) get the phone call on it from the CEO of whatever company is in question about my pricing models and internet sales policy. But as much as I preach not to do that - it has been done too many times already and I think you will see changes in the latter part of 2013 on pricing policies or being able to drop ship from many companies we talk about here on this forum. That is coming. At the end of the day a few people will ruin it for many in that respect and the pricing advantages are going to be leveled out. This industry is old school and doesn't really believe in internet sales, though they realize they are here to stay. What they will be doing is leveling the playing field in the near future to protect the brick and mortar stores from losing sales to those selling at a discount.

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If they level the pricing models, then for buyers such as myself who are pushing their budget to purchase an H&M product we simple will not.

Hello

We went through a similar adjustment with being a dealer for a product not furniture related but the idea is the same. Part of my businesss being a dealer for Weber grills, wich most of you are familiar with Im sure. Weber is the H&M of grills....yes you can purchase more expensive grills but for the most part they are the top of the line in most catagories of gas and charcoal grills. We are a master dealer, which means we stock every model of grill from $499.00 to $2499.00, we stock all the accessories, every grill is assembled free of charge and also delivered free of charge, and we even service the grills. At any given time my inventory of grills is easily over $25,000 and our salespeople are all trained on the line and are very knowlegable. I even took it a step further by telling customers if they have any problems to not even call Weber, come see me and let me handle it for you. Ive been called out on nights and weekends when people were having issues with their grills, we replace the parts that are under warranty at no charge to the consumer, and many times replaced parts that were not under warranty for no charge simply because it was the right thing to do. I just felt that by purchasing through me I owed it to them to be the best when it came to service.
What started happening about 3 years ago is internet retailers started popping up online selling Weber for a fraction of the retail prices. Of course being out of state that meant no sales tax, and they all would ship the grills for free. This got to the point where it really affected our sales....and we noticed the trend of people coming in to pick our brains on the product line, touch and feel the grills, but not purchasing. We became the online "showroom" for Weber.....people came in, picked out the grill they liked, then were going online to purchase. We would get customers coming in with the grill prices printed off the internet expecting us to meet the price....and sometimes we could do that but it got to the point where these online companies were selling at almost dealer cost, and there was no way we could assemble and deliver a $2400 Weber Summit grill for cost and then have to "eat" the sales tax as well. That or they would order their grill online then come to us when they had problems expecting us to fix everything since we were the "dealer". Did we complain to Weber? You bet we did! This was becoming a loosing proposition on our end....and we could no longer afford to maintain a $25000 inventory of grills just to compliment the online companies. Our competion was an online vender that had a warehouse with unassembled grills and were simply shipping them out...they had no salespeople, no product knowlege, and no support after the sale. If you had problems with your grill you were told to call Webers customer service line and work it out with them. But because of the price differences most people were taking their chances and I could not blame them. As this continued we finally reduced our inventory of grills down to the point of only having a few grills on the floor and at one point actually considered just exiting the catogory all together. Weber was full aware of the problem but were having a hard time coming up with the right solution, but I think after realizing their brick and mortar dealers were shrinking and many of them just not selling grills anymore they finally introduced a MAP pricing policy to level the playing field as what is being mentioned here. Basically if you are selling Weber grills you must not drop your retail below MAP (minimum advertised price) or they terminate you as a dealer. And trust me they have no problems doing so. Dont get me wrong the MAP pricing is still less then retail price but by doing this people now can choose between ordering online and having the grill dropped at their door in a box, or purchasing through a brick and mortar dealer and getting the service that goes along with purchasing locally. And as a side note we sell all our grills at MAP and still assemble and deliver the grills for free, and give the same level of customer service as we did in the past.
Now again I know this is unrelated to furniture as their business model is most likely different than gas grills, but still an interesting story and solution to a similar problem. The internet is definatly changing the way business is done!

Old thread here, but here's one other irony to ponder. A lot of these brick and mortar stores who make a stink about the internet shopper have no problem dropping the US manufacturer and bringing in Chinese goods. Tell me how that's not the exact same turn of the screw? Even certain manufacturing brands are outsourcing their production to China such as Flexsteel's leather lines. Now I'm not faulting these business for finding a way to deal with the economic realities of these modern times, but people who live in glass houses.....

I completely agree. I knit and sew and people either ask me how to make it so they can go home and or it or I get the "I can get that at Walmart for half the price". I will not post on here what I want to say to those people because I don't want to get kicked off, haha. Larger companies can offer lower prices because they buy in masses and put a local business owner out of business.
I do have a question though. Is it appropriate to ask the B&M store if they can come down a little? If so about what percentage is reasonable? I don't want to insult anyone. Of course I wouldn't expect them to be able to match the internet price because a B&M has more overhead and let's be honest it's a business not UNICEF.
Thank you Drcollie for sharing your information with us. It is because of your honesty, ethics and willingness to help knowing that not everyone that comes on here is able to purchase from your store that makes us want to purchase from you.

I cannot speak for other stores however the prices in mine are non-negotiable. I price aggressively from the get-go and have never been one to enjoy the art of haggling (either as a buyer or a seller), and politely decline to get into those kind of conversations. Many a customer has walked out of my store when they find out they cannot buy something lower than the posted price. A number of them do come back when they find they can't get it elsewhere for less. Those that take it personally (and a few do) get upset for reasons that I can never understand!

I'm new here and browsing the forum posts as I try and decide on leather furniture. I've learned a lot, so thank you, "DR" Collie (you should have a PhD in leather).

As to this subject.... I rarely ever take up anyone's time in the store because I know I might not buy there. I always say "just looking" and most just leave me alone.

When we bought our first "real" piece of furniture (after marrying), I saw it in a local store (in IL) and was all set to order it, but I'd seen ads in the back of my Southern Living magazine for NC furniture, so I decided to call (in the day before the internet) and get a quote. Wow, big savings, so I ordered from the NC store. We did buy a few things from the local store because they had what we liked on the floor and we wanted it NOW.

A couple years later we were vacationing in FL and drove back home to IL via FurnitureLand South to furniture shop and we ordered our master bedroom suite from it. We'd also identified a dining table we wanted, but waited on that until the following year. At that time, I called and got an updated price. For the heck of it, I called a local store and got a price on it, too. Shockingly, without ever mentioning I'd been shopping around to NC for it, they came back with a quote of $500 less.

Now we live in NC. I went to FLS to look for a couple of chairs, found what I wanted and got a quote. Came back home (100 miles away) and called a local store who had a lower price. In none of these transactions did I even mention having a price from someone else.

I guess it pays to check around.....

I wonder if my NC local stores know they are close enough to FLS that they need to be competitive with it? Still doesn't explain the IL lower price, though.

Anyway, now, thanks to the internet and being able to read TONS of reviews, I'm more hesitant to order from FLS and would like to shop local. But, with the money we're spending, I'd like to save, too......

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Originally Posted by Tabby

I'm new here and browsing the forum posts as I try and decide on leather furniture. I've learned a lot, so thank you, "DR" Collie (you should have a PhD in leather).

As to this subject.... I rarely ever take up anyone's time in the store because I know I might not buy there. I always say "just looking" and most just leave me alone.

When we bought our first "real" piece of furniture (after marrying), I saw it in a local store (in IL) and was all set to order it, but I'd seen ads in the back of my Southern Living magazine for NC furniture, so I decided to call (in the day before the internet) and get a quote. Wow, big savings, so I ordered from the NC store. We did buy a few things from the local store because they had what we liked on the floor and we wanted it NOW.

A couple years later we were vacationing in FL and drove back home to IL via FurnitureLand South to furniture shop and we ordered our master bedroom suite from it. We'd also identified a dining table we wanted, but waited on that until the following year. At that time, I called and got an updated price. For the heck of it, I called a local store and got a price on it, too. Shockingly, without ever mentioning I'd been shopping around to NC for it, they came back with a quote of $500 less.

Now we live in NC. I went to FLS to look for a couple of chairs, found what I wanted and got a quote. Came back home (100 miles away) and called a local store who had a lower price. In none of these transactions did I even mention having a price from someone else.

I guess it pays to check around.....

I wonder if my NC local stores know they are close enough to FLS that they need to be competitive with it? Still doesn't explain the IL lower price, though.

Anyway, now, thanks to the internet and being able to read TONS of reviews, I'm more hesitant to order from FLS and would like to shop local. But, with the money we're spending, I'd like to save, too......

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I have found that FLS is not always going to have the lowest price as well. Its a great place to go to look though. They are so large with so much furniture. I have found the stores that do not have the flashy storefronts or monster showrooms will usually quote you the a low price from the get go. If you go in knowing what you want and what it cost you know its a good price. It may be a few dollars more on some things, but you get to buy local and have that local customer service. I like building relationships with the folks I purchase from...for most things. Vehicles all bets are off! I go with the lowest price for my cars, even if I have to drive 350 miles out of state, if the difference is worth it. Why? Once a car is out of warranty I no longer get it serviced at a dealer anyway...I go to an independent.

Though it is very true that the local brick and mortar stores have to keep the money flowing to stay, the average you and me have little to concern about how they'll survive. The reason is so obvious sir- survival instinct. Why would I pay more to keep them running, and that too when I know there are alternatives. We wish to have the best at the cheapest- understandable, everyone wants this. Now, complement this with the extra toppings of having the stuff delivered at your doorsteps with trivial charges and the neighboring stores are already in the if-nothing-works-then-maybe options.

But yeah, the first point that you mentioned was legitimate. It'd be wrong to check the stuff in the local market for its authenticity and then trying to seek the same at lower prices from around the country. Good points, Like it!
Nicholes(Austin Furniture Repair)

I am going to tell a little story....

Back in the 80's and early 90's, wallpaper for the home was a hot category. I used to have a wallpaper section in my store, and had to pay the wallpaper companies $ 50 to $ 75 for each sample book (in 1985-90 dollars), as did every dealer. Imperial Wallcoverings was the 800lb gorilla of the wallpaper industry, they had the bulk of the category. This was the pre-internet era, when 1-800 ads were in the magazines. The ads said 'We discount, get us the pattern number and name of the wallpaper and save big'. You could pick up any home decor magazine of the day and there were half a dozen of these operations running ads. Imperial compounded the problem by offering volume discounts to its dealers, so the 1-800 guys got a steeper discount that I did in my little speciality store. People would come in and check out the books all the time and I never got many orders. I had about (50) books, probably $ 3K tied up in them. People would also cut the sheets out of them they liked as well instead of asking for samples. After a year or so the books would be shabby, and need replacement. When the sales reps for the wallpaper companies came in and wanted to re-order the books or replace them with newer ones, I would say "no", the 1-800 guys has stolen the business. The reps would say "You need to code your books". I'd say "Who has time for that? Make like 2,000 codes and labels? Why don't you guys kill the 1-800 accounts who steal all the business from stores buying your sample books?" They said they can't...the 1-800 business was too large. So I stopped buying books altogether - so did every other store and dealer. What did that do in the pre-internet era? Well, it took all the samples out - everywhere across the country. Now the 1-800 guys have no where for their customers to go see the wallpaper. The wallpaper business started tanking big time. One day I decided I could use the floor space for something that was actually profitable and threw all the books out, along with the stand and desk I had made for them. People would come into ask for the books to check out and I would say we no longer carry them. This happened at every dealer as well. Imperial Wall Coverings went bankrupt in 2003, killed off by not having brick and mortar stores to show their product.

Now in the internet age, you can see pictures of things. Who is a dealer now? Many of these website presences have no showroom, they operate out of their home and contract their furniture builds to whomever they can get to private label them (Casco Bay is one of those, do a search here to see the fallout on that one). And for that matter, without brick and mortar dealerships mean a maker may was as well sell direct. However, I still think people want to see, touch and try out the frames, at least get a representation of them, and you are only going to do that at a B&M location. Plus, your B&M dealer can go over your plans with you and actually help guide you in what to select. A customer service agent at the end of the phone who is just out of college, probably not so much.

It costs a lot of money to run a store. I just wrote a check today to the County of Fairfax for $ 1,890 for the privilege of operating a business in the County and now have to go get my Isuzu delivery truck which just got a new diesel fuel tank to the tune of $ 2,634. There is a very real cost to a B&M operation and I respect that - so I will never encourage someone to go in and use their facilities then order from my store or any other discounter, it's unethical and disrespectful. Having said that I realize we all want to save a buck when we can - I do as well. I think you have to balance the cost of buying locally and supporting your area businesses (yes, they DO help pay for your schools and infrastructure in your community) vs distance buying. If you are going to be a distance buyer, at the very least don't tie up some salesperson for half a day when you have no intention of buying from them. Respect their time and that they have to make a living as well.

Ultimately, it depends on the dollar spread obviously and whom you want to trust with your order.

I had the same experience with wallpaper (also window coverings) when I was in business, thousands of dollars spent on samples. Towards the end it was almost funny to see the wallpaper reps pleading for us to take books which were now free. They knew their greed had practically killed the industry.

When I shop both a B&M store and online for a major purchase I always give the B&M store the opportunity to compete. I explain that I can get the same item delivered for approximately $X (never exact price) and ask if they can get into that range. If they will they get the sale even though it is usually costs me a bit more. However some stores want it all. Our local (2 hour round trip, only 3 H&M samples on the floor) dealer didn't budge at all when given the opportunity. I didn't think buying local was worth roughly 40% more than buying online from a showroom in another geographic area.

I have always been a supporter of B & M and preferably small business owners - both my family and my husband's family have had businesses in the past. I believe that when you shop locally, you not only keep the money in your community, but you are investing in your community.

My adventure in furniture shopping started about three months ago. First, looking online at styles. Then trying to educate myself on furniture builds, leathers versus fabrics, and warranties, et cetera. My frustration was quickly realized when I went to a B & M and was met with the lack of customer service and knowledge about the products they sell. While the salesperson answered my questions, he was giving me misinformation:
1. B-Y has a two-year warranty. Buy a furniture protection plan.
2. Finished leathers won't be damaged by the sun.
3. Asked if I could order the back cushions with more firm cushioning - nope, can't do that. However, the store would send someone out in 30 days to add more cushioning if I need it.
4. Never offered to order leather samples for me to view samples in my home environment.
5. Told me the leather I had chosen was from Italy. Don't know if that is true or not, but I highly doubt it.

They were not very busy, and I just remember thinking, "You are willing to give me your cell number because you don't want to lose this sale. However, you won't do your research on the furniture you are selling." It was very disappointing.

I went home, did some research, and went back 4 - 6 weeks later. Met with the same salesperson, who was very excited to see me again. Still didn't do his research. That store will not get my business. Frankly, they don't deserve it. I would have been happy to pay a little more for the customer service and B & M store in the community. The lack of knowledge and lack of desire to educate himself took his sale away. Part of me wants to write a letter to the store's owner just to convey my experience. The problem can easily be fixed - education and willingness to stay current.

I found a store out of the area that has an educated salesperson, was able to answer all my questions, wasn't pushy, and I ended up feeling very, very comfortable doing business with that person. Hopefully, furniture vendors will realize education, knowledge, quality furniture are actually leveling out the playing field. I will choose those qualities over cheaper prices any day of the week.

I try to support B&M stores in the area especially for large items but I run into these things more often that i'd like
1) Business Hours are pretty much the same as my work schedule with no flexibility. I don't think it's too much to ask they open for a bit on the weekend or have at least one weekday with extended hours.
2) Staff isn't knowledgeable and customer service doesn't seem to be a priority.
3) Price is 30-50% more than an out of town store and/or internet business pricing. I ask the B&M stores if that's their best price and what they would do if I find a better deal but usually they say that is their best price and they stand firm. I usually don't even bother going back if it's a 30% or higher difference in price regardless of what they say they can do.

When I find a store with good hours, customer service, and pricing I will gladly give them my business and recommend them to others.

Today I had a phone call from a person who called me to see if the Leather Solutions Maintenance Kit would remove scratches from his Hancock & Moore Your Way Sectional. I asked which leather he had on the unit, then explained that he ordered it in a finished (painted) leather and that like anything that is painted, when you scratch through it - only a recoat of the paint will fix it. A cleaning and conditioning kit is not going to solve that problem. Apparently his dog is scratching the sofa cushions and the solution there is to train your pets to stay off the upholstery (I know it can be done because I have done it!).

He went on to complain about what a lousy buying experience he had and how the unit arrived incorrectly, took very long to get (8 months), and wasn't ordered to his specs. How he will never order from Hancock and Moore again because of the issues, and the dealer was arguing with him about it and the like.

As best I could I explained that the furniture manufactuers like Hancock and Moore don't have control over an independent dealer. Sure, if there are enough complaints about a dealer they will eventually pull their dealership, but otherwise the consumer had to deal with that selling dealer and not expect satisfaction from the manufacturer if they decide to call direct. He asked me if I wanted to know the lousy dealer's name so I could spread it around to tell people to stay away from them and I replied I did not want to know (he told me anyways). The phone call went past 12 minutes and I had another call to take so I had to end the call, which was mostly complaining about that dealer.

The irony is he lives 8 miles from my store, but instead went to a dealer in North Carolina because they were less in price overall (I would have had to charge him 6% VA sales tax for one, no way around that for Virginia residents). I think it's important to know whom you are dealing with and if they are going to work on your behalf or work against you. This particular dealer is well-known for slam-dunking their customers and being combative if there are issues. Sometimes the lowest possible price for a given purchase isn't the best deal and can be a miserable experience. Better dealers will work hard on your behalf to make things right when it happens (and from time to time things DO happen). If you shop on price alone, you will find out that not all dealers are alike.

The problem is where I live in a small city, we don’t have many furniture stores, period. And the ones we DO have all sell lower end furniture made in China or Vietnam. AND they charge as much or MORE for it than high end brands. Unfortunately, you won’t find those brands in these stores. I can’t even find any to go and sit on. So, that’s when I discovered the top of the line brands and how they mostly seem to be sold out of places like the Carolinas and Texas. Hey, if local stores carried these better brands, I’d be more than willing to shop here.

Stores will carry what their customers will buy. Here's a typical scenario I see three to four times a week in my store, which is 95% better brands and USA-made.

customer: "Wow, this is really nice, I love that you carry USA-made product and you have beautiful stuff."

.... 10 minutes later .....

"I don't have the budget for a $ 5K to $ 6K leather sofa, what do you have for $ 2K?"

me: "Nothing, sorry. That will be an import made in China / Vietnam / India / Philippines with a short lifespan and not what we carry"

customer: "Why can't I get a USA-made piece in that price range?"

me: "Because no one on this country will work for $ 3 an hour, and pieces are built to a higher standard"

customer: "I can't afford that - I have to get an import"

And that's why they don't stock the better brands. If there was a demand for them at the prices they would have to charge, they would do so. That also requires knowledge of the product, however. A store putting a high end product in a showroom without an educated sales force means that piece will just collect dust. You have to be able to explain what makes those better pieces.....better!

That requires trips to the factories to see how they build product, which is why Sarah (my daughter) made her first one a few weeks ago. Unless you see how they are made, you can't explain to the customer. Too many stores as well only care about price points, because customers demand price points. They are not willing to take the time to learn their product, the differences, and explain that to people. If they can make a living paying $ 1,000 for a Chinese sofa and selling it for $ 1,999 at the price point the people walking in the door want to see, their business survives. They don't really care too much if it only lasts three years - it gives them an opportunity to sell you another sofa then. One of the issues with selling premium furniture is it DOES last, which means we won't see you again for a replacement sofa for twenty years, not three!

I am in Texas and the dealers here are double price compared to the dealers in Carolina’s or other states.

I recently went to a B&M store. We were not at all sure what we wanted to do at that time. I had not even been on the forum in a long time. When we went into the store we were not sure what we wanted, but once my husband saw H&M he didn't want to look at anything else.We had very good service, but were not given any pricing as we had not picked anything out other than a chair. when I went back to the store a few days later I did ask for pricing and it was about as I expected. It was was a bit steep, although I did expect that. Then when I asked about the T&C program I got quizzed about already knowing of it. "Did you look at another store? You didn't seem to be at all surprised about the prices I quoted you. How did you know about the T&C program and that this sofa was included?" It left me feeling rather uncomfortable so I left and came to check pricing out with Duane. It was just an uncomfortable situation. I'm sure the designer didn't mean to attack me, but it sure sounded like it to me. I would have liked to work what them at the least on a cocktail table and end tables, but now I don't think that's going to happen either. It's just too bad. She didn't recommend any particular sofa but I found the one we like on the forum so she really didn't do that much for us anyways.

That is unfortunate! Any experienced retailer / dealer when they find out the client has some knowledge base should build upon that and continue to move the conversation forward. It demonstrates an educated buyer who is serious, so the sale is mostly completed at that point. If the dealer is getting beat up on price, they should explore accessories like nightstands and cocktail tables, give up some margin on that sofa and get it back on the other pieces!

Most people prefer to buy locally, so it’s not that difficult, however there are those than entrench and become defense. Once that happens, the customer is going to walk.

I was quite surprised at the reaction. I have never had that when shopping for anything much less expensive furniture. Until the designer reacted to my that way we were most likely going to continue to work with them.

Duane, you are supposed to be on vacation. Back to the beach with you!!! I hope you are having a nice relaxing trip. I know when it's your business it's hard to just close up, but just allow yourself time to rest and relax. Everything can and will wait until you return.

Maybe that Designer was having a bad day, one never knows. Some people react negatively as well when the customer knows more about the product line than they do. That can put them on the defensive as they can’t BS their way through things, they might get caught not being up to speed on a product line. Or they don’t want to bother with matching prices as it cuts too much into their commission. Who knows?

Lol, being at a beach vacation is like the movie “Groundhog Day”. Every day is the same….get up before sunrise, walk three miles on the beach, come back to the condo for a light breakfast, go to the pool aerobics class at 8:30, then go to the pool with a book, or an iPad. Lunch, then more beach, clean up, dinner out…..the back at sunset for a final short beach walk. Repeat. I could not do this for more than a week! But it’s cooler at Hilton Head Island than home in Northern Virginia. And the view from our balcony is pretty nice.

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