Looking to purchase a sofa and have been told to make sure it is true 8-way hand tied. Is this really necessary for the best quality?
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Looking to purchase a sofa and have been told to make sure it is true 8-way hand tied. Is this really necessary for the best quality?
This is a fun question and Duane may have a completely different answer than I do. My answer is "yes", "no" and "maybe."
8-way hand-tied coils are the most expensive type of seating foundation available. Each individual coil must be hand-tied to 8 other coils in a specific pattern that is tight and symmetrical. It requires a highly skilled (and highly paid) upholsterer and takes a significant amount of time.
It is generally known that 8-way hand tied coils are the best seating foundation in high end furniture. If you are paying $2000 or more for your fabric sofa or above $3000 for your leather sofa you can usually expect to find a genuine 8-way hand-tied system exceptthat there are certain styles that will not permit 8-way coils. These are usually modern styles that have a lower profile. 8-way coils need a healthy chunk of space under the seat deck and not all styles will accommodate that, even if you're paying $5000 or more.
8 way hand-tied coils can also be found on lower priced sofas, down to about $1200 in some cases. Several years ago manufacturers of low-end spring systems discovered that you could pre-assemble a bunch of coils in a wooden box and send it off to Mexico or China where low-paid semi-skilled workers would tie string onto the coils. Because they didn't bother to make sure the strings were tight or tied in a pattern that would actually support the springs they could complete the labor part of the job in a fraction of the time it took for the real thing. But because these spring units actually were "tied" by hand the lower price manufacturers felt justified in also calling them "8-way hand-tied." This is often what you will find when you see a sofa for less than $2000 claiming to be 8-way hand-tied.
Because the 8-way hand-tied coils are more expensive, it is assumed by most people that they are also more durable and more comfortable than other spring units. The answer to this is "maybe." A sinuous wire spring system (sometimes known as a zig-zag) is very simple and inexpensive. Because it is so simple there really isn't much that can go wrong with it. In terms of longevity when the cheap sofa made with that spring falls apart, the sinuous wire spring may still have decades of life left in it.
In terms of comfort, 8-way hand tied has always been considered the champion. But in my experience it takes a very "educated ass" to tell the difference when used with a good quality cushion. Many years ago I witnessed a blind-folded test to see if professional furniture retailers could tell the difference blind-folded between 3 different types of springs, including an 8-way hand-tied. (The manufacturer was trying to pitch one of the alternate systems) Less than 1/2 guessed correctly on the 8-way hand tied springs.
In conclusion I will leave you with the government's opinion on the matter. In the late 1980s the US government put out a bid for sofas. The specifications called for 8-way hand-tied springs. Flexsteel sued the government arguing that its parabolic spring unit was equal to or better than an 8-way hand tied unit, and at least as durable and comfortable as the 8 way-hand tied springs used in the Drexel unit that had received the contract. After nearly a year the court decided in favor of Flexsteel and awarded them the contract.
Jeff Frank
Simplicity Sofas
Wow, what a great answer! I love this forum. Been reading it all day and think I like the Hancock and Moore brand. Now to find the right sofa!
Hancock and Moore is a brand that will never disappoint! I started purchasing my furniture through The Keeping Room and have the Hancock and Moore City Sofa and Lennon Chair. Now, every time I go to someone elses apartment and sit on their couch, my backside is a little disappointed!
I would also unequivocally recommend purchasing through Duane at The Keeping Room. Great service and half the price of any dealer I could find!
Appreciate the input.
Duane, can you give me the price of Reserve sofa with say....class 2 leather?
Unfortunately, I need protected leather as I have a 55lb pit bull and am afraid her nails will leave scratch marks . Any suggestions on a protected hide that looks the least cheesy would be appreciated, if that's even possible. I like browns. Was looking at Columbia Butternut, Columbia Coffee, Domaine Toffee, Portfolio Tobacco, Berkshire Tobacco, Cavalier Mocha, Cavalier Molasses, and Willamsburg Harness.
Jeff makes a lot of good points and history of the 8-way hand-tied system. I think one of the benefits of doing it CORRECTLY (and many makers don't) is that when it done right, on a solid hardwood frame with high quality webbing (the webbing is the support structure the springs rest upon, interlaced with steel bands) - then you get service duty year after year after year. This is why pieces made this way can go for well over a lifetime, they maintain their support structure. When you sit in a blown out sofa, you sink in it. Most people think the cushion inserts are shot, but whats really doing that is the foundation or spring system has failed.
Think of the frame and webbing as the 'basement' of the sofa, the foundation. It has to be strong to support the piece and the weight placed upon it. If you have a weak foundation, its going to be fine for 6 months, a year and maybe even two years. But eventually its going to fatigue and fail. If you have a strong foundation, then the only thing that wears is essentially the outer cover and the cushion inserts. Both are replaceable (many makers offer free core insert replacement to the original purchaser for as long as they own the piece). 8-ways are set into the webbing with metal clips, and are linked together with 8 stings per coil that go to the adjacent springs. This helps 'share the load' from one spring to its surrounding neighbor springs. These virtually never wear out. No-Sag Springs on the other hand, will give a similar feel but they lack the long-term durability of 8-ways, as they span the frame rather than sitting inside of it. See the photo below? The seat area is done in 8-way springs, the back is a no-sag. Eventually the no-sags..... SAG! It takes years for it to happen, but they can't fight the physics of their design.
Attachment 1950
Everyone in the industry will acknowledge that 8-way hand-tied springs are the gold standard (and 4-way hand-tied in the backs), but like Jeff detailed already, its costly in time, material and craftsmanship to build it that way. If you're shopping a price point, then the drop in spring grids and no sags will do the job, but for a lesser period of time. Example... I would expect to get 10 good years of a no-sag sofa made properly. And for many, that's long enough. But on an 8-way hand-tied, it will last 100 years until the strings rot and need re-stringing. Like I've said many times over, there is no secret on how to build high-quality furniture. Every maker in the industry knows how to do it. But its going to be "X" number of dollars to build it and many customers don't want to pay that much. So a company will have to either remove components or the amount of skilled labor in building the piece if they want to service that lower price point market and that's what happens.
I think more importantly is to find out what you're getting for you hard-earned bucks. If store "A" is selling you a no-sag sofa in a plywood frame covered in a Chinese leather for $ 3,500, why would you want to buy that when you can get a solid frame, 8-way hand-tied sofa with a South American leather for the same money? The point being the first sofa is a $ 1,500 sofa, not a $ 3,500 piece.
I like 8-way hand-tied. I even had Royal Pedic make me a 8-way hand-tied box spring for the bed my wife and I sleep on at home. Overkill? Maybe.....but I'll never have to buy another box spring for as long as I live. Just replace the mattress on top every 14 to 15 years and keep on going.....!
"I even had Royal Pedic make me a 8-way hand-tied box spring for the bed my wife and I sleep on at home."
Wow! 8-way hand tied bed.. hancock and moore leather in your car! You know the good stuff!
HA! Yes I do. I think I paid an extra $ 400 for the 8-way handtied box spring, but I'll never have to replace it. That's a one-time purchase.
I only have a scrap of H&M leather in my car, however....I actually made a bezel panel for some switchgear using a dealer sample swatch of Quintessence Eclipse (black). Cut out the grommets and it was just the right size for my creation. Its actually a higher quality leather than what came from Porsche.