Let's discuss furniture warranties

There seems to be a lot of general confusion on warranties in regard to furniture. I think most folks tend to think about warranties in the same way they view their car warranty, and that's a mistake. The Furniture Industry definitely does not operate like a car warranty. Let's explore some details as to how they differ - as it applies to the majority of furniture suppliers (there are exceptions, like forum member Jeff's Simplicity Sofas):

* With an automobile, you can take it to any dealership in the country for warranty repair, not so in the furniture business, where ONLY the selling dealer can handle your warranty claim. That means if you live in Indiana as an example, and have a failed chair from a maker who has a dealership in Indianapolis, but you purchased from a store in South Carolina, the dealer in Indiana, nor the factory rep for that are will assist you. You must go back to the selling dealer in South Carolina.

* Warranties are much more limited in scope on furniture than they are on cars. Basically on a vehicle, everything is covered bumper to bumper for "XX" amount of months or miles. In furniture world, only specific items are addressed, and it has to do with workmanship defects rather than performance. What do I mean by that? Well, a defect in workmanship would be an unraveled stitch on a seam, or a broken frame member, or a popped spring. A performance issue would be a sofa that sinks down too much, a cover that doesn't wear as you expected it would. Big difference. Performance issues are typically not covered by any kind of warranty.

* Every maker has a printed warranty, that is usually in the Dealer Master Sales Catalog or Price Book. Ask for a copy if you want to know what is and isn't covered. (I have the current Hancock & Moore as well as Bradington-Young warranty scanned and available in the LEATHER forum, for example). Anything not covered on that warranty statement is something you and your selling dealer must try to work out. Sometimes a dealer can negotiate a repair that's not covered by the warranty, but in most cases it will be a repair and not a replacement.

* In the furniture industry, on warranty issues most times a piece will be returned to the maker for evaluation and a fix, rarely is anything replaced with a new item. Often this means your furniture will be absent from your home for a period of time while in transit to the maker for repair, and then transit time back as well. There are no 'loaner' pieces to give you while yours is gone, sorry.

* On new furniture, there may be a warranty issue (workmanship defect) or a damage issue (caused by the shipping company). While the selling dealer is your contact point for all warranty issues, the shipping company is your contact point for things broken or damaged in transit. All the selling dealer is going to do on the latter is either refer you to the shipping company or make a call on your behalf. In general, if you have shipping damage you are better contacting them yourself rather than having the selling dealer pass along back and forth messages.

* Covers on upholstery are never covered under warranty, either leather or fabric. This is the most oft-confused aspect on fabric and leather furniture. The reason being is the maker does not know how you are using the furniture or what kind of thinks the customer is allowing to come into contact with the cover surface.

* Bedding warranties in particular are not worth the paper they're written on. Most mattresses and box spring fail on performance issues, not manufacturers defects. That ridge in the middle of the bed? Performance. That edge that crushed down when you sit on the bed edge? Performance. Loss of support and comfort? Performance. A bedding warranty covers broken stitches in the swing and broken springs in the internals and not much else. So don't wall for the 20-year mattress warranty, the bed will most likely used up in 7 years due to performance degradation rather than workmanship defects.

Attachment 1971

As an addition to this thread, be sure to READ the warranty carefully. There's sections that all but negate a repair because of conditions in the warranty.

As an example, I recently had a customer who observed that the arm panel of his year and a half old Bradington Young recliner was 'listing' and at an angle to the chair of a few degrees and wanted to begin a warranty claim. A look at that section of the Bradington Young warranty states (edited for brevity):

FRAME PARTS: Lifetime warranty against defects for the useful life of the product as ling as it stays in the original cover. BY will replace the part that is defective. After the First Year of Use, the warranty covers parts only and no labor or shipping costs.

OK, this means that they may send a $ 5.00 piece of wood crossmember that needs to be replaced, but no labor to repair it and no shipping charges to the factory on a 2-way trip. In effect, the 'lifetime' warranty is really a 1-year warranty for all practical aspects. This is important to know these things before you purchase. On something like a loose arm panel section, its always about labor and shipping. As a dealer, I sure hate to say "Sorry, can't do anything for you" on that, but the reality is the written warranty is what we have to work with. While I personally may not agree with the 'fine print' language in these warranties, no dealer cannot authorize repairs over and above what is stated.

Note that Hancock & Moore, another line I represent, does not have the time limitations on its motion frame warranty and would cover this as warranty claim. H&M recliners cost more, so there's that aspect of it as well but they offer a stronger warranty. It should be noted that H&M does reserve the right to refuse warranty claims is the product was mis-used in their determination.

Thanks Duane for the mention in your first paragraph.

Simplicity Sofas has a warranty program unlike any other furniture company. The entire warranty is If you do not like our furniture for any reason whatsoever you may return it to us for a full refund including shipping costs for a period of one year.

Actually in the two cases where we received warranty claims after the one year period we still acted as though the warranty still applied. For example a woman purchased a sofa and slipcovers from us. 18 months later she called to say that she had never used the slipcover and wanted to know if she could return it for a refund. Our answer was "yes," even though the fabric was discontinued and no longer in our line.

This would be a good place to brag that Simplicity Sofas has recently been awarded a "Beloved Company" designation by Jeanne Bliss, a nationally known consultant and author specializing in the field of customer service. There are fewer than 50 companies nationwide who have received this designation. Some of the others include Zappos, Harley Davidson, Southwest Airlines and Wegmans. Simplicity Sofas is the first furniture company to ever receive this award.

A word about warranties - I want to back up Duane in emphasizing that long warranties do not necessarily guaranty quality. For example, although Simplicity Sofas has a far stronger warranty than H&M, that does not indicate that the quality of its furniture is superior. A typical Simplicity Sofa in fabric sells for around $1000, less than half of an H&M sofa. Yes, it is built to last 10-20 years, but there are many other areas where it can not compare with a company like H&M. Some of these areas include tailoring, comfort, fabric and cushion quality and there are many others as well.

Simplicity Sofas products are designed for a very specialized market niche - people with narrow doors or stairways who cannot fit a normal sofa or sectional. In our little niche we are the top of the line. When you add to that a customer service philosophy that encourages frequent communication between the factory and the customers, and the willingness to do whatever it takes to correct a problem, and there are very few reasons for our customers to invoke their warranty and return their furniture.

Jeff Frank
Simplicity Sofas

I enjoyed the videos on your site, Jeff. Is that your son who put together the sofa in less than 4 minutes? He looks so purposeful. :)

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Originally Posted by organic_smallhome

I enjoyed the videos on your site, Jeff. Is that your son who put together the sofa in less than 4 minutes? He looks so purposeful. :)

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No. The Assembler is Skyler Miller, age 8, the son of one of my employees. I have to confess that Skyler did practice for the video. He put the sofa together and took it apart 5 or 6 times before we shot the video (which was done in one take.)

My son (age 13 at the time) held the previous speed record of just under 6 minutes. That was his first time assembling one of our sofas.

Jeff Frank
Simplicity Sofas

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Originally Posted by drcollie

* With an automobile, you can take it to any dealership in the country for warranty repair, not so in the furniture business, where ONLY the selling dealer can handle your warranty claim. That means if you live in Indiana as an example, and have a failed chair from a maker who has a dealership in Indianapolis, but you purchased from a store in South Carolina, the dealer in Indiana, nor the factory rep for that are will assist you. You must go back to the selling dealer in South Carolina.

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What happens if the dealer goes out of business and is no longer around?

If the selling dealer has closed down, then it gets into a gray area. You can work through the factory (tends to be slow and cumbersome) or find a benevolent dealer that will help you out.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks is customers not keeping a copy of their receipt that shows model, cover and date of purchase. If the selling dealer is out of business, and the customer has no paperwork, you're not going to get any warranty claim unless the customer was smart enough to register their product when new (most do not do that, either). No one at the factory is going to attempt to pour through the records of the defunct selling dealer trying to find your order...not going to happen. So keep your paperwork, and if nothing else tape it to the bottom of the chair/sofa/sectional, etc.

One other note on various warranties when selecting a piece or maker. CUSHION CORES! They are one of the primary wear items over time, and break down with use. Of the makers I carry here are three distinct cushion core policies:

Hancock and Moore: Free replacements to the original owner, seats and backs. No charge for shipping.

Bradington Young: Seat Cushions only free replacement lifetime. After the first year, customer pays UPS charges. Back Cushions always have a charge plus the freight.

Leathercraft: 1 year only, seats and backs free replacement with shipping. After 1 year, regular retail costs plus shipping.

How often do back cushion cores usually need to be replaced?

Back cushions? Almost never....very rare to have to do that except in some very heavily used bustle backs.

Duane I just found the HANCOCK & MOORE warranty registeration booklet/card under the sofa cushion of the ENVELOP I bought from you.
Do not remember date of purchase, can not find paperwork on the sale. Sale was possible 5 years ago?
There is no problem with the sofa. Perfect as the day it was delivered. Should I mail the registration card with out the complete information. The registration number sticker is still on as the entire booklet was inside of a plastic sleeve.
Thanks

Yes, I would mail it in. Take your best guess on the date.....probably not 5 years old, but could have been!

On my H&M chair, there is a date on the cushion core. You might try unzipping the cushion covers and see if there are any dates on there. For my chair, the listed date appears to be a production date or the date that the cores were made which is about six weeks prior to the chair's initial delivery to me. If there is a date there, I would use it on the warranty card or use it but add four to six weeks.

I went thru old bank statements until I found THE KEEPING ROOM. Duane I did not understand at that time it would cost you to process my debit card as I paid not from a credit card but from my checking account. I could have just mailed you a check if I had known. The date of the payment processed was 1 OCT 2010.

Well, the guys REALLY making money are the ones that operate these credit cards, they make money hand over foot. My monthly credit card charges from transaction average $ 3,000 a month to Visa/Mastercard/Discover/Am Ex. That's a lot of payout, but its the way people shop today. What really frosts me is that there are close to twenty different rate categories, with any kind of business card being the highest rate to process for the merchant (because they tend to pay in full on their bill every month). I never know what a particular card is going to cost to process, but I couldn't do anything about it anyways. The rates are going up again October 1st as well, they raise the processing fees every year. I simply have to increase the retail price of goods to cover these fees, like any other merchant. 20 years ago only 10 % of my business was in credit cards, but now that is reversed and its 90 % in plastic. I will always offer a 2 % cash/check discount for those that want to take advantage of it, my feeling being that if I don't have to pay the credit card fees then I can give you back what they would charge me.

One other thing folks don't often realize (and many merchants don't either) is that when we refund a purchase, we don't get the processing fees back. I learned that the hard way several years ago when I had a customer buy $ 42,000 worth of oriental rugs on a Am Ex Card on a Thursday and returned them all back the following week for a refund (She used them to dress out her home for a big fundraiser party at her home, I later found out). After refunding her money I lost $ 840 in fees out of pocket plus all the hours of sweat equity to take them out of the store to her house, then go pick them back up again and put back in my store. That's why now I have a 10 % re-stocking charge on all returns.

Agree, furniture warranties are tricky. They don't mean much when they don't cover pickup and delivery and the repairs might be impractical. So, have a bernhardt leather sofa with lifetime warranty. Staple blocks holding springs have pulled out of the frame in back. About 10 of them. Bernhardt said to get an estimate and they would cover repairs but not pick up and delivery or taxes. Haven't had much luck finding anybody who knows how to repair. The sofa is about 15 years old. Frankly, amazed that this is how they attach the springs! Attachment 6850

How many warranties on anything you buy include coming to your house to pick it up and transport it? Not too many that I know of. If I buy something mail order and it has a warranty issue, I have to send it back via UPS. etc. If my car needs warranty work, I have to get it to the dealership and go pick it back up as well. Furniture warranties require you to get the piece back to your selling dealer or to the factory. Once you do that, they will repair it and re-ship it back to the selling dealer (Not necessarily back to your home). That's the industry standard on warranty repairs.

That construction is pretty sad, but that is typical of companies like Bernhardt, Ashley, Lazy Boy, etc. Plastics and staples on Plywood. There's a reason the good stuff costs what it does and its not made like that. That's really pretty easy to fix yourself if you're at all handy. That plastic and staples is garbage - get rid of it.
get some metal spring clamps that attach with screws and replace all the ones in there. Here is similar to what you need:

http://ergode.com/index.php?route=pr...qSkaAmJn8P8HAQ

How many warranties on anything you buy include coming to your house to pick it up and transport it? Not too many that I know of. If I buy something mail order and it has a warranty issue, I have to send it back via UPS. etc. If my car needs warranty work, I have to get it to the dealership and go pick it back up as well. Furniture warranties require you to get the piece back to your selling dealer or to the factory. Once you do that, they will repair it and re-ship it back to the selling dealer (Not necessarily back to your home). That's the industry standard on warranty repairs.

That construction is pretty sad, but that is typical of companies like Bernhardt, Ashley, Lazy Boy, etc. Plastics and staples on Plywood. There's a reason the good stuff costs what it does and its not made like that. That's really pretty easy to fix yourself if you're at all handy. That plastic and staples is garbage - get rid of it.
get some metal spring clamps that attach with screws and replace all the ones in there. Here is similar to what you need:

http://ergode.com/index.php?route=pr...qSkaAmJn8P8HAQ

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Originally Posted by drcollie

How many warranties on anything you buy include coming to your house to pick it up and transport it? Not too many that I know of. If I buy something mail order and it has a warranty issue, I have to send it back via UPS. etc. If my car needs warranty work, I have to get it to the dealership and go pick it back up as well. Furniture warranties require you to get the piece back to your selling dealer or to the factory. Once you do that, they will repair it and re-ship it back to the selling dealer (Not necessarily back to your home). That's the industry standard on warranty repairs.

That construction is pretty sad, but that is typical of companies like Bernhardt, Ashley, Lazy Boy, etc. Plastics and staples on Plywood. There's a reason the good stuff costs what it does and its not made like that. That's really pretty easy to fix yourself if you're at all handy. That plastic and staples is garbage - get rid of it.
get some metal spring clamps that attach with screws and replace all the ones in there. Here is similar to what you need:

http://ergode.com/index.php?route=pr...qSkaAmJn8P8HAQ

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Most of the stuff you mentioned is portable. I could take my dishwasher, washer, dryer, refrigerator etc back too but I'm not required to do that to enforce the warranty! Seems to me anything that big and weighing that much involving a $100/150 delivery charge is pretty much a "limited" and useless warranty. I appreciate the tip on clamps and could do that easily but fail to see how I could get the springs back on top of the board with these as there is no access to top of board. Hard to tell from the pic whether they clamp all the way around the board and are screwed in from the bottom? Maybe it doesn't make any difference if spring is attached above or below the board?

That's why you always want to ask specifically what the warranty covers so you know for sure.

It won't matter where on the board you attach the springs as long as you can get a solid attachment point that won't pull loose. I can't determine accessibility as I only see the one photo posted. I know if that were my piece and I was going to repair it, my spring clamps would be screwed in metal vs stapled in plastic. Good luck.

I know this is an old thread but it is very informative. Thank you for it.

Based on your explanations, please clarify one thing please. On a custom order, If a leg is broken during shipping to the local dealer, does that mean the local dealer will repair it as best they can. I ask this because my dealer advised they have ordered a new ottoman, and are letting me keep the damaged one until the new one comes in. I am keeping protective covers over the leather ottoman, so there won't be any wear.

A broken leg (split or snapped, not dented) should never be repaired. they should be replaced. They will most likely swap out your ottoman and return the old one with the broken leg to the manufacturer for restoration/replacement of the leg.

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Originally Posted by drcollie

One other note on various warranties when selecting a piece or maker. CUSHION CORES! They are one of the primary wear items over time, and break down with use. Of the makers I carry here are three distinct cushion core policies:

Hancock and Moore: Free replacements to the original owner, seats and backs. No charge for shipping.

Bradington Young: Seat Cushions only free replacement lifetime. After the first year, customer pays UPS charges. Back Cushions always have a charge plus the freight.

Leathercraft: 1 year only, seats and backs free replacement with shipping. After 1 year, regular retail costs plus shipping.

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Could you please explain what Taylor King’s lifetime policy actually means. Do they have free cushion replacements to the original owner for lifetime? Have heard that lifetime actually only means 5-7 years so was surprised when I heard that someone had Hancock and Moore make new cushions after 15 or so years.

"Lifetime Warranty" is typically the frame and springs, it always excludes the cover (leather or fabric) and most companies won't do the seat or back core inserts.

Hancock and Moore is unique in that respect in that they will replace seat and back cores to the consumer as long as they are the original owner with no time limit. However I am starting to see some abuse of that courtesy, with some customers requesting a full new set of cores every two years - and they DO NOT wear out in two years. It's not a written policy, to they can stop it any time they like. If there is too much abuse, this "perk" could go away. Most cores will go ten years easily in most instances.

Taylor King: Their warranty statement says "Limited Lifetime Warranty is offered on the frame, seat cushions, and spring construction against defective materials or workmanship.....original purchaser, residential use only" Then goes on to say after one year they will not be liable for transportation charges between the factory and selling dealer. The key works here are DEFECTIVE. That does not mean wear and tear and normal puddling so its their determination. Also, the cost to send cores is considerable - so the freight on a set can be several hundred dollars.

I had a customer last week that wanted to see about getting new cores for three seats on her Taylor King Sectional that was purchased in 2015. TK would not warranty and cost for (3) cores was $ 350 + $ 250 (appx) for shipping.

Thank you so very much. We are in the process of pricing out sectionals and think we have it down between a Taylor King and a Temple. The price difference is approximately $2000 and wondering if the Taylor King is worth spending the extra money on? If someone needed to replace cushions after 3 years that is a bit concerning, though I know type of cushion and how people use a couch are factors in this. We are looking to purchase the spring down cushions. Do those hold up better than foam?


We also priced out a Huntington House sectional that does seem to have a true lifetime warranty on cushions but was priced even higher than TK. Thoughts?

There's a difference in cushions "breaking in" and needing replacement. 95% of the time, any cushion core from any premium maker is not broken down in less than ten years, they have just settled in and perhaps need to be removed from the casing and fluffed, then put back in. I myself have only replaced cores in my home on a 16 year-old Leathercraft daily use sofa, all my other furniture has been fine and some has been three + decades old. I would not over-focus on cushion cores as for most people its not something they will ever do a replacement on.

I used to be a Temple dealer and while there is nothing inherently wrong with their furniture, I dropped the line because most customers didn't like the way the pieces sat - nor did I.

Huntington House is owned by Century Furniture and has nice product, however I don't think the build is superior to Taylor King.

I can't thank you enough for the information. We are looking into spring down cushions and a 10/90 back cushion (though after reading remarks about need to fluff all the time I may change my mind). Do you find that spring down cushions last as long or as well as the foam cushions? Both my husband and I found the spring down the most comfortable but if they break in too much over time I am worried they may be too soft. Do you find most people prefer spring down or foam?

A Spring Down Marshall unit is the core of choice for fabric sofas and typically a DuPont Qualax Foam for Leather. However its like an oil thread for cars - you ask fifty different people and you will get fifty different answers.

On the backs, Fiber Fill will keep its shape better than any of the down-filled options.

Thanks for such a detailed information, I've found many useful warranty tips here. But have one more question. This refers to online furniture stores too? I'm planning to buy some items for my living room but after reading some reviews on online furniture stores, e.g.Ashley Furniture reviews I'm not sure now... how do you think, is it really safe?

Furniture warranties are handled through the selling dealer, who then in turn goes back to the factory. Ultimately it comes down do that individual selling dealer. Ashley is low-tier product and poorly made in my opinion, but it is inexpensive so it depends on your expectations. Of course, if you are navigating to a site called "Pissed Consumer" as in your link it's pretty well certain all reviews will be rants.

The key with ordering on-line is that YOU have to pay to for the return trip for warranty issues if they are severe enough to require going back to the factory (this applies to my distance sales as well). No different than if you had to return your iPhone for service. However an iPhone would cost you $ 15 to ship back, a sofa might be $ 500 so a big difference there. Keep that in mind.

On high-quality furniture, warranty issues are maybe 1/4 of 1% (one in 400). Very low - I may get one a year with the product I sell. On low-end furniture such as Ashley, it's probably closer to 8 to 10%, but because of the high cost to return I imagine many people simply live with it and quite frankly the on-line sellers within that category are banking on that.

"You get what you pay for" pretty much holds true in the furniture industry.

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Originally Posted by drcollie

"You get what you pay for" pretty much holds true in the furniture industry.

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Well, agree with that. Probably will lokk for better suppliers... btw, thanks!

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Originally Posted by drcollie

There's a difference in cushions "breaking in" and needing replacement. 95% of the time, any cushion core from any premium maker is not broken down in less than ten years, they have just settled in and perhaps need to be removed from the casing and fluffed, then put back in. I myself have only replaced cores in my home on a 16 year-old Leathercraft daily use sofa, all my other furniture has been fine and some has been three + decades old. I would not over-focus on cushion cores as for most people its not something they will ever do a replacement on.

I used to be a Temple dealer and while there is nothing inherently wrong with their furniture, I dropped the line because most customers didn't like the way the pieces sat - nor did I.

Huntington House is owned by Century Furniture and has nice product, however I don't think the build is superior to Taylor King.

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What do you mean “didn’t like the way the pieces sat” ? I’m having trouble finding something to suit both my needs and my husband’s needs. He seems to need a slightly shorter seat depth. Anyway, do you remember what the issues were regarding how the Temple sofas “sat”? It’s a brand I was considering.

Not specifically. I dropped that line over fifteen years ago. I see it at the High Point Furniture Market and stop in and look at it from time to time, but see no reason to reacquire it. Nor to I see a reason to warn you off it. If you like it, then I think its a good purchase for you, its not poorly made or that it will break down. I think Taylor King gives us a superior product than Temple at similar price points, but the problem with TK is very long lead times - they are out to 9 months.

When we look at new makers at Market, we compare them to what we have already for suppliers. They have to offer something new that we don't already have to invest in a new Supplier. That can be styling, unique fabrics or leathers, a new feature no one has, aggressive pricing, fast delivery times - the list goes on and on. But after 35 years of doing this, we rarely see the need to pick up a new line or reactivate old ones. Doesn't mean they are bad, its just not improving on what we already have.