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3 Attachment(s)
Hancock & Moore Cushions
Shown here are the two most popular cushion cores, the standard Dupont Quaalex foam core that comes on most leather pieces and the optional Ultra Down cushion available as an extra cost option.
The Ultra Down as you can see is a layer of down and feathers encased in a ticking and placed over a foam core on one side only.
Attachment 1941Attachment 1942Attachment 1943
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Re: Hancock & Moore Cushions
Thanks for adding these photos, Duane...now I know what to expect in our Journey sectional! Is it done yet? <chortle, chortle>
Tammy
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Re: Hancock & Moore Cushions
Here's an update to the "cushion" story at Hancock and Moore. I spent a lot of time talking cushion cores with Jimmy Moore last Thursday at the factory, as I was getting conflicting information from different people at H&M so I wanted to get a firm understanding of it all from The Man who knows.
Nothing is kept in stock on cushion cores. Everything is ordered "just in time" and there are daily deliveries of cores. So if you place an order for a piece and then 10 or 14 days later decide to change cores, then they have to stop production and order new ones, which will delay your build until they are made. The cushion core maker builds them to order as well, and does not keep them in stock.
The standard core in leather is Dupont Qualux, as you probably already knew. It's a specialty poly/ dac core designed for durability and consistency. There are additional cost cushion upgrades available which are described elsewhere on the forum.
The density of the foam is 16 oz., then 21 oz, 28 oz, 36 oz, 44 oz and so on up to 90 oz.
The standard seat core is 16 oz and the back cores will vary depending on the style and form of the piece. Loose cushion pieces will be 16 oz or 21 oz, and tight backs covered with 28 oz foam. A button- tufted tight top ottoman will have 44 oz under the leather.
When you ask for extra firm cores you are going to get 21 oz in the seat and one step up in the back (if desired). If you want extra/extra firm then you will get the 28 oz. They will make it the way you want it, but take it easy because otherwise your new piece will feel as hard as a park bench, and you don't want that.
If you want more fullness (crown) in a cushion, that is extra-full and again at no up charge. Standard cushion wrap is done of 1/2" specialty fiber and they will wrap it with 3/4" instead.
H&M is unique in that they will furnish the original purchaser with free cushion cores as long as they own the piece should the original ones compress and fail. Simply unzip the casing, throw the old ones away and replace with new. You don't even have to pay shipping. However, they will only replace in kind to the original order, so if you ordered extra firm (21 oz) and decide they are too firm and you want standard 16 oz cores, they will not replace those free of charge in most cases.
While on the subject of cushions, most people attribute a sagging seating area to poor cushion cores. However, what
has most likely failed is not the cores, but the webbing has lost it it's tautness and gone soft, either due to inferior webbing material or the frame no longer hold the webbing tight. If the webbing is not tight, the springs no longer have a firm base of support and the seating area sags. A strong frame and drum tight webbing is the key to longevity on an 8 way hand tied piece. Those features cost more and unfortunately you can't see inside the pieces but have to rely on your dealer to know.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Hancock & Moore Cushions
From the H&M Catalog, describing the various cushion options.
Attachment 2630From the H&M Catalog, describing the various cushion options.
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I notice when looking at market photos most pieces are equipped with "ultra down", is this because it gives the best impression of instant comfort?
Have you ever had any memory foam pieces run across your store?
I am pretty happy with the standards. They are a tad on the stiff side(and I mean barely) "right now" but I think they should be perfect once broken in.
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HA! Its because the CEO of H&M likes Ultra Down cores! So all the pieces at Market have them...simple as that.
I've never sold the first Memory Down cushion on any brand of furniture. I don't like that stuff, it leaves impressions and makes for a 'warm' or 'hot' sit (or sleep if in a mattress).
Yes, the regular cores will most definitely break in. About end of July....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
drcollie
HA! Its because the CEO of H&M likes Ultra Down cores! So all the pieces at Market have them...simple as that.
I've never sold the first Memory Down cushion on any brand of furniture. I don't like that stuff, it leaves impressions and makes for a 'warm' or 'hot' sit (or sleep if in a mattress).
Yes, the regular cores will most definitely break in. About end of July....
Since I am home most of the day, I try and sit in every seat for a little while, to help break them in..heh
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Duane,
What are your thoughts on the down cushions, for seat and back? Are they worth the cost? Do they make the couch much more comfortable?
I've sat in a down filled couch, and it was very comfortable....but I don't want a sofa that looks "saggy" over time. Will the down cushions hold up?
Thanks,
Amanda
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Its like asking which shoes are the most comfortable. I can tell you want I like, but I can't say what you would like...its really individual preference. Myself, I prefer the firmer sit of the standard core, but a lot of folks say Ultra Down is a must-have. You need to try them out and decide for yourself if at all possible.
The H&M Ultra Down is pictured at the top of this thread. As you can see its built on the standard foam core, so yes - it holds up. It will result in the leather appearing more 'relaxed' and 'puddled' over time. If a core does wear out and is no longer resilient, H&M will replace free of charge to the original owner only. That's why its important to register your new H&M pieces with them either via mail on on-line.
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My two cents on this; when we originally ordered the sofa I did so with the ultra down cushions - then changed my mind and had the regular firm cushions put thru with the order. Why? Because I did not like the "puddling affect" that we saw at the store, and I was not about to get up from the sofa each day on the particular cushion I would be sitting on - and have to straighten it out, day in and day out. Even with the firm cushion that will still be an issue, as Duane has stated to me, all leather gives (stretches) to some extent. But with what I saw after sitting on the City Sofa, no way would I want to be straightening that out constantly. Now the softness of the feel of them was great - but my sofa I have now has soft cushions, and as we are getting older, that is becoming an issue for us - so the firmer cushion is a better choice for us personally. So one would really as Duane stated go sit on pieces that have each type in them, to determine what you would prefer. And look at the piece after sitting on it for a short while - get up look at the leather - then say do I want that look after yourself and/or others have sat on it. I'm hoping the firmer cushions won't give me that "puddled effect" as easily - so that is why the change in the order. The City Sofa we sat on in the store had only been there for 4 weeks, according to Duane.
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Hi levitt11...You make an excellent point regarding getting older and perhaps needing firmer seat cushions. Thanks.
Duane...The tag on my Evening sofa doesn't say anything about cushion cores. I know I didn't change my cushions from the 'standard' when I ordered last year. When my cores eventually need replacing, what would I ask for? I have registered my sofa's number (10468960001001) with H&M. Is there coding in this number to identify the cores?
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Yes, you will have standard cores, and when you registered, that tied your name to the database of all the production specs for your sofa, so there will always be a record of what you have should you call in.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
drcollie
Yes, you will have standard cores, and when you registered, that tied your name to the database of all the production specs for your sofa, so there will always be a record of what you have should you call in.
If I decide to replace the seat cushions later with firmer cores would that be considered an "upgrade"? Is there a charge for a change such as this?
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Officially the answer is 'no', you can only get replacements of the original core that was ordered when it was built. But if you contact your friendly dealer and that dealer knows whom to call at H&M <wink>, it might can be wiggled in for you at no charge.
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Duane,
Do the last digits on registration designate the cushions for seat and back? In this instance 001001
SC
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I have to say I have no idea what the code sequence means - though they can tell at H&M.
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After two weeks of us sitting on either end our new H&M Lynne sofa, the end cushions are decidedly more broken in than the center one; try to lie down on it and you might think there's a camel underneath. So I was thinking about rotating all the cushions weekly, when I'm also wiping the whole couch down with a damp cloth.
Good idea?
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Absolutely. Cushions and leather definitely have a break-in period, so you can rotate them if the segments fit. A lot of the H&M pieces have tailored inner corners so they don't rotate into different positions well.
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Pretty sure all the seats are the same and all the backs are the same on this one. Thanks!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
crunchysue
After two weeks of us sitting on either end our new H&M Lynne sofa, the end cushions are decidedly more broken in than the center one; try to lie down on it and you might think there's a camel underneath. So I was thinking about rotating all the cushions weekly, when I'm also wiping the whole couch down with a damp cloth.
Good idea?
Crunchysue, may I ask which cushions you have on your Lynne sofa? Standard?
I know DH will not sit on the middle one, he never does... I guess I'll have to do it... a lot LOL
Duane, Will the difference - between cushions used more often and the ones not - be more noticeable with Standard cores or Ultra Down cores or the same?
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I was also thinking, since both Standard and Ultra Down cores are put into the exact same casings, shouldn't the Ultra Down look actually fuller (since they have an extra layer) and stretch/ smooth the leather of the casings even nicer than the Standard cores... I know everyone says opposite, Ultra Down causes the leather to look "relaxed", "more rumpled / puddled" but why exactly...?
For those who had a chance to sit on both Standard and Ultra Down - is the difference in comfort significant or minimal? Are Standard ones much harder, both on seats and backs?
If you have Standard ones, how long did it take to break them in? Once broken in, they stay at the same "hardness level"?
Also, when shopping for a fabric sofa a while ago, I noticed that when I sat on a cushion, the sides would often rise quite a bit creating open space between seat cushions. Would this effect be more probable with Standard or Ultra Down cores on a leather sofa, or I shouldn't worry about it with H&M leather piece?
I have to decide on the cores for our Sundance this week and I still have no idea what to do...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Damask
Crunchysue, may I ask which cushions you have on your Lynne sofa? Standard?
I know DH will not sit on the middle one, he never does... I guess I'll have to do it... a lot LOL
Duane, Will the difference - between cushions used more often and the ones not - be more noticeable with Standard cores or Ultra Down cores or the same?
I have regular cushions - here's the link to the thread about my sofa: http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...uron-Butternut.
I think the regular cushions are great and I would not characterize them as "hard" at all; they're perfect. Although I've never sat on the down cushions, it seems to me like they'd be too squishy. Hope that helps!
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I agree - I like my standard core cushions in the Sundance. I think the seat would seem deeper if the back cushions were down, but the idea of puddling over time was not appealing. My toss pillows are down and give us a little squishy comfort as needed :)
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Thank you crunchysue! I sat on the Ultra Down, and they were really super comfy... But I've never sat on the Standard ones, so have no idea if the difference in comfort is really that significant... And I have hard time accepting the fact that the fuller Down cores cause the "puddled effect" and Standard cores don't (since the casings are exactly the same)... I'm getting to the point where I just want to flip a coin and be done with it LOL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
BevoGal
I agree - I like my standard core cushions in the Sundance. I think the seat would seem deeper if the back cushions were down, but the idea of puddling over time was not appealing. My toss pillows are down and give us a little squishy comfort as needed :)
That makes me think twice about Down cores again actually... DH is 6'2" and was comfortable on the Down cores we sat on. Well, not super comfortable, but comfortable enough to say OK... But I think any inch less and I'm in trouble once the sofas arrive...
Duane, what do you think? Do Down cores in the back cushions make the seat seem deeper on the Sundance?
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Ultra Down is simply a HR Foam cushion (standard) where the top 1.5" or so have been shaved off the top and replaced with an insert of down and goose feathers.....so you still have a foam core at the center of things. You can see a photo here:
http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...Moore-Cushions
Your cushion choice will also be a function of the leather you select. A leather like Capri for example is very supple, and very soft and pliable. It moves and flexes a lot more than a burnished leather or one like Stampede Harness - that are crispy and firmer. I order Ultra Downs for my Hand Antiqued Sunset Burnished chairs I have at home but not for my chair in Quintessence - as the leather is like Capri. its really just a matter of preference - puddling never concerns me at all because a quick fluff takes care of it in most cases. However if you do not like that, then stay standard cores and even consider going to extra firm (21 oz density) which will minimize that. Ultra Down in the back of a Sundance will make it seem a little deeper, and sloppier looking than standards.
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Re: Hancock & Moore Cushions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drcollie
Ultra Down is simply a HR Foam cushion (standard) where
the top 1.5" or so have been shaved off the top and replaced with an insert of down and goose feathers.....so you still have a foam core at the center of things. You can see a photo here:
http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...Moore-Cushions
Your cushion choice will also be a function of the leather you select. A leather like Capri for example is very supple, and very soft and pliable. It moves and flexes a lot more than a burnished leather or one like Stampede Harness - that are crispy and firmer. I order Ultra Downs for my Hand Antiqued Sunset Burnished chairs I have at home but not for my chair in Quintessence - as the leather is like Capri. its really just a matter of preference - puddling never concerns me at all because a quick fluff takes care of it in most cases. However if you do not like that, then stay standard cores and even consider going to extra firm (21 oz density) which will minimize that. Ultra Down in the back of a Sundance will make it seem a little deeper, and sloppier looking than standards.
NOW it finally makes sense to me!!!
Some foam is shaved off to accommodate the layer of down / feathers!
Thanks Duane, I was losing sleep over this one.
I have studied the photos at the beginning of this thread before I posted, and the Ultra Down looks definitely bigger / deeper than the Standard one so it didn't even occur to me that this may be the case (less foam in Ultra Down cores). It just wasn't adding up with everything else I read. Oh my, you just made my day! ;)
I'm going to pass this info to DH tomorrow and we'll have a decision in a jiffy (my 3.5yo son's current favorite word LOL)
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Oh crap! I had no idea that the leather choice would be a factor in choosing the type or weight of the cushion. I sat in a recliner at the factory that had the standard 16 oz. Honestly, the only thing I remember noticing about the leather was the gorgeous color. I originally ordered the Caress Red, but then I changed to the Capri Claret. When I made that change, should I have changed to a different cushion??? The puddling thing is something of an issue for me -- I have a preference for clean, tight lines. In fact, if I could have had anything at all different (well, maybe shout of world peace!), it would have been for the Harbison lounger to have a tight back rather than semi-attached. Just a personal preference, not a huge deal. But if the Capri leather causes it to be looser (which makes sense to me now that I read your last post), I'm afraid I'm not going to be quite so thrilled.
Groan......after all the agonizing over all the choices and being afraid of making rookie mistakes, once I decided to go with the Capri, which is really what I wanted all along, I have not had the first "Oh crap!" moment, and it's been close to Nirvana! But here I go again! I hope you can reassure me, and put me out of my misery!
This whole experience has been a new world for me. So many choices, and so much you need to understand before making those choices. The idea that both you and H&M are so committed to having the customer have exactly what she wants, exactly the way she wants it, and the lengths that you and H&M are willing to go to make that happen have been both novel and very exciting. And surprisingly stressful at times -- despite it being the best consumer experience I can possibly imagine! But I must confess I've had my personal meltdown moments where I've almost longed for the bad old days where you went to the only furniture store in town, and if you didn't see what you liked, then, by God, you learned to like what you saw, or you did without, and that was that! Life was simpler that way. Not better by any stretch, but assuredly simpler. I'm having one of those moments now!
I hope changing to the Capri doesn't mean I should have changed the cushions as well. I hope you'll be able to reassure me. But I know you'll tell me what I NEED to know, rather than what I WANT to know, and how to proceed. And I believe I'll get the best answer that will serve my interest both now and five years from now.
Duane, while I'm guessing every customer you deal with is as difficult as me, I hope you don't have too many like me at any given time. If you do, then you have my condolences! You seem to roll with it -- and from your picture, it doesn't appear that you have pulled all your hair out!
Seriously, I'm so appreciative of your patience and good humor in working with me. You go above and beyond!
And while this purchase is for me a huge deal, whatever I hear from you, I'll try hard to put things in the proper perspective. Yeah, it's an expensive recliner, and one that I expect to use for a very long time. But in the grand scheme of things, it almost borders on trivial. One only has to read a newspaper to be reminded of that. Perspective is everything -- the news of the nearly 300 girls kidnapped in Nigeria has driven that point home for me. I think this is a lesson that applies not only to buying furniture, but to most everything else in life as well. Now all I have to do is to keep telling myself this......again and again and again!
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I pretty much like standard cores in H&M recliners, I'd not change them out unless you feel you really must. Stay with it is my recommendation and let me know once you've had them for a bit if they are satisfactory.
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You definitely are going to have an absolutely beautiful recliner with Capri Claret and standard core cushions. We have standard core in our Royal High Leg recliner and the ultra down in our Sofa. They are different but both extremely comfortable. Don't know to what degree the Leather is actually impacting appearance, but the recliner seat never looks like anyone has been sitting in it, except for the back and head rest area. The Sofa does show which cushions have been used as favorite seating ...but we love that look as it shouts comfort.
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Thanks so much for the reassurance! And Duane, if I should discover somewhere down the line that I'm less than thrilled with the less firm cushions, and I should call you to let you know, you have my express permission to remind me that we're talking about a chair -- not world peace! ;)
Seriously, though, on the off-chance that I later feel the firmer cushions would be a better fit for me, is there a possibility that I might be able to PURCHASE the more firm cushions from H&M?
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Hi Duane, new to the forum. I have a H&M 4390 Metro Sofa whose cushions are a crushed and crumpled mess. They have the standard Qualux foam contained in a breatheable fabric bag. I'm a big believer in DIY and I'd like to replace the cushions. I know that the proper measuring technique involves measuring from welt-to-welt but the welts are so worn as to be misplaced; some measurements vary by as much as 1 inch! Would you be able to provide me with a set of accurate measurements for the cores? And, would you also recommend installing dacron batting for added stabilty? My wife and I love our sofa but we also are tired of constantly slumping down on these tired old cushions. Thanks a million for any information that you can send my way......
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Dave,
You don't need to do all that, if you are the original owner of the Metro sofa, then you get free cushion core replacements. Just call the dealer you purchased from and they will get those for you, and you won't even have to pay the shipping, that's all gratis at H&M.
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Dear Duane,
As the Customer Service person for a high end furniture store that carries Hancock and Moore, I'd like to state that they have the best warranty when it comes to replacement cores but the "warranty rules" state that the manufacturer needs the Registration/ID # from the piece to request replacement cores. At our store, we sometimes are asked to provide photos because the warranty also states: The warranty does not apply to damage resulting from accidents, alteration or mis-use" .
You'd be surprised how many end clients think that dogs eating cushion cores is not accidental or mis-use.....
P.S When you are requesting assistance from a store that you purchased a chair from 7 years ago you should be polite and not upset when a company asks for a photo or the ID #. Kind of like the drive-in window at a fast food place...Don't be insolent or rude to people that are trying to save you time and money.
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There actually is not a written warranty on H&M cushion cores that I have even seen in print, unless I have missed it all these years. Its just something they do...
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I want to thank Duane, Hancock & Moore and Susan from Shofer's for facilitating the replacement of my cushions. After installation, the sofa now looks as it did when it was but a young tad! Regarding Sue's post directly above, I had questioned her as to why photos were needed when as you explained it, Duane it seemed such a simple matter. I scanned the warranty statement and could not find any reference to sending photos as a justification; that's where I was coming from. I can understand Sue's point about pets eating cushion cores BUT would not the pet need to 'get past' the leather outer covering first? If so, I'm sure that would be a mess as well! All I'm saying is that I wasn't trying to bust Sue's chops, I just questioned the necessity of sending photos.
Some indignation came on my part when, after I sent the initial email, I hadn't heard anything for a week whereupon I called the store and was asked to resend the information. That was a week wasted. I actually resent my information two times after which It was confirmed that it was received. The bottom line is that H&M stood by their word, I received my cushions and am a happy camper.....thanks again Duane, H&M and Sue.:o
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H&M will replace cushion cores, both seats and backs, for the original customer (doesn't apply if you buy it used or off Craigslist, etc) as often as you need them for as long as you own the furniture. No return of the old ones is necessary nor are photos. All it takes is a simple email from the dealer to request them and they show up at your door about 3 weeks later (they are custom made for each piece, and not kept in stock). Glad to help!
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I know you have posted so much about the different cushions on the H&M sofas but I don't find any references (by anyone) to the spring/down cushions. Do they sit like the Qualux standard cushions? I tried out a Sundance sofa in a local store and they are telling me it has the spring/down cushions (but they don't seem to be real sure about that so I am not 100% sure they are telling me the truth), and since I absolutely LOVE the way that sofa felt, I would want to order it with the same cushions! The salesman told me the spring/down cushions are the most durable and also basically maintenance free (don't need fluffing, etc.). What is your opinion of the spring/down cushions please? Thank you!
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I've never sold a leather piece with spring-down cushion cores in it, and I've sold thousands! Generally that is a cushion that is put into fabric upholstery as a premium core, they dent to not have enough 'bounce-back' in leather casings. What is sold most frequently in leather as an upgraded core is called an Ultra Down core (in H&M lingo). This is a foam based center with a layer of down and feathers on the top 15% or so of the cushion. I would imaging that was what you were sitting on when you tried the Sundance. Ultra downs will be more plush, but not spring back as fully as the standard Qualux foam core so they will give the piece a more relaxed look over time with some puddling of the leather as it wears in.
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I double checked, and the retailer insists that the Sundance sofa on their floor has the springdown cushions, so that is what I ordered too. I even went so far as to call H&M directly, and spoke to a very nice lady who gave me all sorts of info on their cushions, and she also said that normally the springdown cushions are used more in their fabric sofas, but not as much in the leather sofas. She also mentioned the springdown cushion will have a higher crown (which I like). So, springdown it is for me!