Help! Confused

We have been in the market for a new sofa and loveseat. We have not purchased in a while as our old set is over 20 years old. We were looking for a leather set, preferably with a sofa that reclines and a loveseat that rocks and reclines (although I know there are not many available, so may just settle for reclining). However, I thought we could get a decent set for $2,000-$3,000. However, it appears that every set in that price range that we have identified must be pretty bad. Everytime I find one, I research the internet and come up with a ton of negative reviews. These are the manufacturers I have looked at - Lane, Catnapper, Cindy Crawford collection (Rooms to Go), Bassette, Lay Z Boy, Comfortech, Ashley, Flexsteel, HTL.

Can anyone point me in the direction of a quality manufacturer in this price range? Thanks

Hi Saintsfan,

My wife and I are in the same boat and at least started out looking for similar furniture. My conclusions thus far are that "quality furniture" and "$2-3k" don't go together, at least not for a set, and unless you are able to find a nice set used. For that price, Bradington Young does make a recliner sofa, but you still need to add in the chair.

But are any of those better than others? I am not at all looking for showroom type furniture, just decent everyday furniture. I am not going to pay $3,000 for a loveseat. That would mean a set in the $8,000 or so range, which is not what I want to invest in everyday furniture.

Yes, you can do it for less than 8k. At that range you are getting in to the really nice leathers from Hancock & Moore, at least based on Duane's pricing, which is probably the best around. If you goto the $4k range, you can probably get a good set of Bradington Young. Spend some time reading the other threads on the forums here, especially read the "made in china" thread, then make an informed decision.

The problem is you can have Quality - or you can have Price. But to get both at a lower price point is VERY hard to do. To give you an analogy, it's like looking for a NY Strip Steak Dinner at the price of McDonald's Extra Value Meal. You might eventually find one if you look long enough, but its going to take a lot of time and effort.

There is no rocket science in making upholstery. Every maker knows how to do it to the highest standard and there are no hidden tricks or proprietary secrets, just like that NY Strip Steak. A company like Hancock and Moore uses only the best materials in the industry, the highest level of construction and the best and most skilled labor force in the USA. Their goal is to deliver the finest product on the market today and they succeed in doing so, and their pieces perform and last a very long time. But they can't do it and be at low price points, nor can anyone else for that matter. Now, you take another company and they decide they don't want to compete at that top of the line end, and they want to target 30% below H&M in price. They have only two ways to do that, either cut the materials cost or the labor cost. Simply put, you pull 30 % out of the piece to reduce the price by 30%. And then there is a 50% guy and so on. At a certain point, enough workmanship is removed to make the piece a shell of what it should be and it will perform accordingly.

Everyday furniture is exactly where you should buy the high quality pieces, as those are the ones you use every day. Use and weight = deterioration. You want the cheap seats to be in the living room where no one ever goes! Good, well built pieces can take daily use and hold up over time. Do the math....

Good sofa: $ 3,000. Lasts 25 years or more daily use.
Cheap sofa: $ 1,200. Lasts to 8 years. You will buy (3) of these in 25 years. Total cost $ 3,600.

Lane, Catnapper, Cindy Crawford collection (Rooms to Go), Bassette, Lay Z Boy, Comfortech, Ashley, Flexsteel, HTL. < These are all low to mid-quality labels. Ashley is about the worst stuff you can buy..and many of the others only a little better.

Want more proof? Do a search for horror stories / dis-satisfied Hancock and Moore customers. If you get any hits on that at all, they won't be many.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drcollie

The problem is you can have Quality - or you can have Price. But to get both at a lower price point is VERY hard to do. To give you an analogy, it's like looking for a NY Strip Steak Dinner at the price of McDonald's Extra Value Meal. You might eventually find one if you look long enough, but its going to take a lot of time and effort.

There is no rocket science in making upholstery. Every maker knows how to do it to the highest standard and there are no hidden tricks or proprietary secrets, just like that NY Strip Steak. A company like Hancock and Moore uses only the best materials in the industry, the highest level of construction and the best and most skilled labor force in the USA. Their goal is to deliver the finest product on the market today and they succeed in doing so, and their pieces perform and last a very long time. But they can't do it and be at low price points, nor can anyone else for that matter. Now, you take another company and they decide they don't want to compete at that top of the line end, and they want to target 30% below H&M in price. They have only two ways to do that, either cut the materials cost or the labor cost. Simply put, you pull 30 % out of the piece to reduce the price by 30%. And then there is a 50% guy and so on. At a certain point, enough workmanship is removed to make the piece a shell of what it should be and it will perform accordingly.

Everyday furniture is exactly where you should buy the high quality pieces, as those are the ones you use every day. Use and weight = deterioration. You want the cheap seats to be in the living room where no one ever goes! Good, well built pieces can take daily use and hold up over time. Do the math....

Good sofa: $ 3,000. Lasts 25 years or more daily use.
Cheap sofa: $ 1,200. Lasts to 8 years. You will buy (3) of these in 25 years. Total cost $ 3,600.

Lane, Catnapper, Cindy Crawford collection (Rooms to Go), Bassette, Lay Z Boy, Comfortech, Ashley, Flexsteel, HTL. < These are all low to mid-quality labels. Ashley is about the worst stuff you can buy..and many of the others only a little better.

Want more proof? Do a search for horror stories / dis-satisfied Hancock and Moore customers. If you get any hits on that at all, they won't be many.

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I have read this before on your threads (steak vs. McDs) but do not see it in the market. I recently saw a flexsteel Dylan set "on sale" for nearly $6,000 for a sofa/loveseat set. I was stunned at how much this cost for a flexsteel. Although it was part of the Latitude line, it did have the leggett and platt mechanisms. H&M really does not have a seller in my area and the only B&Y set I have seen at the stores is a stationary set for a higher price. Very frustrating looking for furniture when most seem to carry only the lower quality pieces.

You will find every dealer sets their own prices and some can be silly expensive. The industry is very inconsistent that way, unlike shopping for a car for example - where you will pay pretty much the same price from every dealer in every state. Furniture can have very wide swings. That $ 6,000 Flexsteel set you are seeing may be $ 3,500 at another store, for example - but that store may be five states away from you.

If you are looking for motion pieces, here's my favorite, the 912 Bradington-Young series (they don't have rockers in them, however). I think this set offers the best bang for the buck + quality + comfort than anything else I've seen out there to date. Its one of their newer series and they got this one right on the money. USA Made instead of Chinese like the Flexteel Latitudes. Solid and I've no doubt in my mind they will go for years...

BY offers a Married Cover on this piece, and I sell distance customers for $ 2,225 on the loveseat and $ 2,379 on the sofa. Add $ 175 per recliner station for optional power or just stick with the manual recline. Not sure where you are located, but if you're a Saints fan then maybe Louisiana, so Sun Delivery would charge appx $ 455 to deliver. Total landed cost in the married covers (2 colors available) just over $ 5K. Now while that's well over your budget (sorry!) that's a set you can buy and not have to replace anytime in the near future. And this puts that $ 6K Flexsteel set you saw to shame.

Now you have a data point and can go to your local BY dealer and see what they charge for the same set. My prices are pretty aggressive and yet I make a reasonable profit for a small business, so if they are even close on price then they're a dealer that you can be confident you're not being gouged by on excessive dealer margins. I just don't think that with the original target price you have in mind that you will find anything to bring home that won't be in the landfill in a few years time.

It's very difficult for stores to carry better product, because the pricing pressure from customers who demand lower prices is unrelenting. If I have 30 customers walk in my store in a given day for example, at least 20 of them will comment on "Why are the prices so high? Do you have anything cheaper?" When you hear that enough times as a store owner, you begin to question yourself as to WHY you have the good stuff that costs more and perhaps you should just fill the store with price point items. If I heard someone walk into my store and say "Hancock and Moore is really priced reasonably for what it is" I'd probably pass out right then and there....lol.

I had a gentleman in the store this week, for example, that made 5 separate trips to the store buy a recliner. I have twelve on the floor and he wanted one right away. He couldn't get past the price point - it was killing him. So he'd go to other stores and then come back and say "They sell crap, but its at the price I want to pay. Why can't you sell me that Bradington-Young over there for $ 600? You charge too much - your recliner is double the price of everyone else's." I'd just smile at him and say "If you want a $ 600 Recliner, go buy one of theirs! You know this one is better made, that's why you keep coming back." He finally bought the one in my store for $ 1,279, this past Saturday but it pained him to put that credit card on the table. After that whole ordeal he put himself through he winked at me and said "I know this is worth the extra money".... and we both laughed.

After doing this job since 1986, the one thing I loathe more than anything else in the world is an angry phone call from a customer who says I sold them a piece of junk five years ago. So I resolved a long time ago to never carry anything in my store that doesn't meet my personal standards of quality and performance...in other words, if I wouldn't have it in my own home, then why would I want to sell it to anyone else? I wish the good stuff cost less - but it just doesn't. So I only carry decent product and as a result - I don't get those nasty phone calls!