Manufacturer that sells non coated, full grain, thick hide leather furniture

I am trying to find a manufacturer, ideally that has no showrooms, no big name markup (100+% markup seems standard in furniture) that uses quality materials and construction. Ideally, I want to know which tannery my leather came from. I know this of my belts, shoes, bags, etc. it’s hard to tell how good a piece of leather has been tanned, especially if the edges have been rolled. I also want a thick leather instead of the paper thin stuff I’m seeing (unless it’s like kangaroo or goat or something)

Are there any such manufacturers? I cannot seem to find one. Almost everyone is offering top grain and etc... I feel like if that’s even an option, they’ve already compromised.

Well, you came to the right place to get schooled. Class is in session!

You are seeking a unicorn. Do you really think there is a manufacturer out there using the best of materials and construction builds and is toiling away and his business model is to save you - the consumer - the last nickel? How does that work? Oh, I know, they have a website that is all pretty and flowery, full of nice photos and no physical address on it. Why no address? Because that website is being run out of someone's home office on a computer and they are contracting out all their builds to a struggling third party maker who is almost always putting out a mediocre product. You buy it, lured by the price and something shows up at your house with a sofa that you think is pretty OK, because you really don't know furniture but are happy with the price. That same piece would not be allowed in a store like mine because I can see how it's made. Here's the really cool part about it all, that internet presence "no name" guy can shut down anytime (typically where there are enough bad reviews of their product) and put up a new website under a new name and start all over again. He can even change builders, because there are no labels on the product other than the one he sends to the third party maker. There are hundreds of small time makers in around the USA more than happy to build for Home Computer Website Guy, because the high quality builders are too busy and won't take on a place that doesn't have a showroom. Dealers that have showrooms can't turn off their computer and run away from unhappy customers like internet-guy can. When you have a physical presence, that means stability and responsibility.

It takes YEARS and YEARS to build a brand and a reputation. Was Rolex watch a hit when it started up in 1905 in England? No, they were not. They had to continually improve their product and build the brand. Do you think you will find a Rolex quality watch out of some no-name producer operating off a website? Well, good luck on that.

100% + Markup. How did you arrive at that number? I'd like some of that margin, please. I could have retired ten years ago - maybe fifteen if I had 100% + markup. It's less than half that for most stores.

You should read this thread and learn about leather. http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...-FORUM-lt-READ

Thick leather - why? All hides are split. An unsplit leather is too thick to tailor. Even thicker split hides can be bulky on an upholstery. There are sharp 90 degree turns on a frame, in three dimensions. Try to get a belt thickness leathers to stay on three planes, you can't do it. And shoe leather is too hard for upholstery. Thick doesn't not mean longevity. Cleaning and Conditioning does.

All leather is Top Grain. Uncorrected hides are Full Top Grain. That's what you want, one of those two. What you don't want is bicast or bonded leathers, those are made of leather byproduct. Where a leather is tanned is of little consequence. I hear all the time "I don't want a leather from China", well - China has no cattle industry, those are hides from USA Slaughterhouses salted and sent over to China for processing, because the USA had not tanneries left except for a few specialty operators like Horween in Chicago (they don't do upholstery grade leathers). China has state-of-the-art processing equipment and they deliver a very consistent product. What's more important than country of the tanning is how clean they keep their equipment and how many processing tanks they use. Dirty tanneries put out a substandard product because they don't change the tanks often enough. That's one reason brand name companies like Hancock and Moore travel to every single tannery they buy from to inspect the conditions of that facility. Dirty tanneries don't get their orders for hides. Does internet guy operating form his home do that? I kind of doubt it.

Good luck in your quest! Let us know when you find that Unicorn.

markup, my wife used to work in the industry and my boss used to work at VP level in the industry. I’m talking about cost to make, versus cost sold. Not whatever you are paying at store level from the manufacturer.

Interesting reply. It’s curious that I am able to find this leather in antique stores on furniture, and in fact the owner of saddleback leather upholstered his own chair and seats in his Range Rover with this type of leather. I don’t think I’m asking the impossible. Maybe we are talking about something different as far as thickness. take kangaroo hide, that is durable very thin (of course, lots of seams if you try to turn a bunch of kangaroos into a couch). I won’t pretend to know about construction of furniture, but I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Maybe you’re limited to how complex it is, but I’m not worried about that. I’m not expecting someone to use shoe leather or belt leather in furniture... I was just giving examples of things that you can trace back to the tannery. Often times, certain tanneries skimp on how much time they tan the hides, the geographic location of the tannery means exactly nothing, but the process the tannery uses does

I get my belts, for example, from Equus Leather... a man with hand tools and some of the best leather in the world is the only thing that goes into my belt. IMO their quality is on par with big names like Hermès, but the price? Infinitely less. Why? Precisely because they didn’t build a brand through the traditional means, they don’t heavily advertise. If you’ve owned a company, you know how much overhead is, if you lower that immensely, you are able to profit and sell a quality piece at a good price. Take Tyler accoustics for speakers, top quality cabinets and drivers at a fraction of the cost to see that same stuff in a big brand name... again, due to savings on owning a store and marketing etc. these places work by word of mouth and forums on the internet. In most industries, someone has taken the effort to apply the internet model that allows a good product at a good price. From what you’re telling me, this does not exist in furniture, and that is what I was looking for

As far as Rolex, yes you are paying for the name. That is exactly what I am trying not to do. There are plenty of manufactures that can build a watch of the same quality as Rolex... you don’t buy a Rolex for the quality, you buy it for the name and the resale value that comes with it

Thank you for your detailed reply

Edit: from your topic you linked, I would be searching for a company that uses Aniline Leather

I've been in this business 35 years now and know a lot of people in the business. Margins at the manufacturing level are 18 to 20% GPM at companies like Hancock and Moore. I know because I'm good friends with Jack Glasheen who founded the company. That's why a 5% sale they usually do is a big deal, it really puts a shot at their bottom line. For a few years I was able to convince them to do that 5% on Black Friday but they stopped it because it cost them too much. I think they are going to pass on having the 5% off sale this February as well. There is a perception that these furniture manufacturers make big money, but they don't. They are not Apple.

If your friend put a pure aniline leather in their Range Rover they will live to regret that. Pure Anilines have no business in car interiors, they can't take the sun punishment and the sweat. Ford did that for a few years in their King Ranch F series pickups - it was a disaster. Sure, they look good when new, but here's what they look like in a few years.

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There is no one out there doing what you are seeking that I'm aware of. I always give an honest answer - because that's what this forum is about. If I knew of someone, I'd send you to them. This is the more typical operation that you are looking for

https://www.cascobayfurniture.com/

Look at his website - looks good, right? Lots of savings, lots of Factory Direct, lots of "awards". No Showroom, just as you requested. They used to have no addresses, and the owner works out of his home in Maine, now they list an "office" but if you google the address, its one of those virtual offices where you rent a desk or Post office box. Maybe they have a presence there or maybe they are renting a mailbox, I don't really know.

https://www.davincivirtual.com/loc/u.../facility-1098

His contract builder is Jonathan Wesley who is a small operator a few doors down from Hancock and Moore's Motion Plant # 3 in the same road. And Jonathan Wesley is one of the hundreds of small shops in that area that make private label furniture. I don't know the quality and I am not disparaging this business model, but if you want to talk markups - its in Private Label because you as a consumer can't cross shop it. If you want to buy a Hancock and Moore # 9840 City Sofa in Cavalier Mocha, you can get a price from 20 or 30 dealers in an afternoon. If you want to buy a Casco Bay unit - you can only go one place, see what I mean?

As someone who owns two Rolexes, I can also tell you that very, very few watchmakers run the stringent controls and in-house making of their products like they do. Most that do, are far more costly. The Rolex story is fascinating and if you get into it you will discover its more than branding and advertising. They make all their movements in -house, and even pour their own gold. It's an amazing product. You are not going to find Rolex quality for half the price, that's not out there. Chrono24 is a respected internet information source, you can read their take on Rolex here if you want to learn about it:

https://www.chrono24.com/magazine/ro...brand-p_26381/

The best made leather upholstery in the United States is Hancock and Moore, and I say that because I know all the players in that niche. No one does it to the level they do and with the accuracy and quality of build. You can't buy it direct any more than you can a Rolex Watch. But if you think you can come across something just as good for less money - godspeed and let us know what it is.

Thank you. It is funny that you mention those king ranch seats... they are actually some what of a ‘unicorn’ in themselves. A good pair of those seats are incredibly expensive. The reason they wore so poorly is less because you can’t put the leather in a car, but more because people didn’t and don’t care for leather properly. Leather was used on vehicles and all manner of items (think of the abuse of saddles) long before we had modern coatings. There are some that consider those seats the best ever put in a modern truck. That is absolutely something I would buy. Of course, I would be smart and UV tint the windows and every car I have is in a garage, as well as properly caring for it.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I’ll probably just have to buy something and have it reupholstered, buy antique, or just get fabric so I don’t cry myself to sleep every night thinking about my poor quality sofa. I was totally unimpressed with Hancock and Moore, maybe I was just looking at the wrong stuff. Ekornes seems to have some new leather line that looks like it could be promising.

On a side note, I don’t understand why coatings are becoming so popular. It is next to impossible to fix a piece of coated leather if you’ve worn through the coating. It also doesn’t allow the leather to breath, and takes away from the grain. One time I had the misfortune of buying an Allen Edmonds shoe. The coating cracked on the first wear and I had to spend a day with alcohol and nail polish remover to get all the coating off so that I could properly refinish the leather. Not surprisingly the real leather under the coating looked a lot better than the spray paint that was on over it. Also, I recently replaced my wife’s steering wheel because a small portion wore through the coating and it could never be corrected because you can’t match the coating. Real leather is almost like real wood... you can beat it up real good and it can nearly always be fixed

Even the best high-end vehicles (Bentley, Rolls Royce, Aston Martin, Ferrari) stop at a semi-aniline hide. You cannot do a pure aniline as you can't tint the windshield. Even the darkest tint in the sides (which is illegal in most states to go past 35% on the driver and passenger windows) won't stop the UV. Plus pure aniline leather stains. It's a poor choice unless you can tolerate a recover every two years or so.

Finished leathers cost less and are more spill and UV Resistant. Better for those that have hard use on a sofa and eat on the furniture. The top coat, if cared for properly and regularly, goes for decades. Auto steering wheels are never cleaned enough, which is why you had to replace it. Wipe them down at least every two weeks with a white cloth and a small about of soap, you will be amazed at the dirt that comes off it. Sorry my friend, but pure anilins are MUCH harder to repair than finished leathers and usually require new leather - I know, I work with repairs on them all the time.

I don’t mean to argue with you, but you’re telling me why my own steering wheel needed replacing without having ever seen it.

The coating had worn through in a small spot. It was obvious when I stripped the top of the steering wheel coating off. It looks better removed and you can feel the grain. but doesn’t match the car. It was during the cleaning, which isn’t done weekly because the car is used maybe once a week, that I discovered an area taking water with my duck friendly soap and water mixture. I’m sure some coatings are better than others.

I am curious, how do you fix a cracked/worn top coating?

https://thenewswheel.com/do-your-car...-from-uv-rays/

https://www.mdedge.com/dermatology/a...osure?sso=true

Here’s two of many articles that suggest windshields stop 90+% of uva/b

Oh, no worries, not an argument - a discussion.

My business is leather furniture, my passion is cars. I'm all over the car forums and have seen so many trashed steering wheels in leather, I know what's going on with them. What damages leather is oils and dirt from human hands, it attacks the tannins in the hide and cause the leather to lose its topcoat and then crack. What gets dirtier than a car steering wheel? Not much - its handled all the time, in all sorts of weather and with both clean and dirty hands. Take a damp white cloth with a little soap on it and wipe it down and you will see for yourself how much soiling comes off it. Now do the same on the leather seat - you won't see anywhere near the grime. Wipe down that steering wheel all the time and it will last the life of the car if you keep it clean and conditioned.

Stripping off the topcoat on a finished or semi-aniline leather won't work as you have naked leather underneath with no oils or wax pressed in (such as they do on an aniline). That steering wheel leather has to be re-top coated with a clear coat to maintain it if you remove the old coating. You really can't repair these, you replace the hide once its cracked, the leather is compromised. Prevention is the key, be proactive, not reactive after the fact.

90% UV block is not enough. The interior color will still get blown out by the sun. My good friend Alan Price who is a world-class designer for many of the luxury brands in the market today - runs around in an open-top, ancient Jeep Commander and he has pure aniline hides in there that he made by hand. I said "Alan, those are going to ruined in less than two years!" He said "I know, I don't care - I love 'em, I'll just put new leather on them again, it only takes me a day and I have lots of extra leather in the garage!" Here's his ride that anyone who goes to the High Point Market will surely see in one of the parking lots around town.

http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...ght=alan+price