Thayer Coggin matrix webbing vs. Vanguard 8-way hand tied springs

Debating between two sofas:

1) Thayer Coggin Flash (with with what Thayer calls "matrix webbing" construction)

2) Vanguard Lincoln Hill (which is supposedly 8 way hand-tied)

Is 8-way hand tied really superior to this new technique used by Thayer Coggin?

Like the styling for both couches, just want to make sure we're investing in the sofa that is likely to give us the longest use.

You'd have to send links so we can see what "matrix webbing" looks like.

8-Way Hand tied is the gold standard, and will never be eclipsed by any other method. Its the most costly and most involved to do. Vanguard makes a nice piece.

Matrix webbing is an updated version of the old Pirelli webbing that has been around about as long as 8 way hand-tied. From a durability standpoint, a well-built sofa with a matrix webbing will last just as long as 8 way hand-tied. Where you have to be careful however is that the webbing exerts a very strong force pulling in on the front and back of the frame. If that frame is not built properly, with 5/4" kiln-dried hardwood lumber that is glued, double-doweled, screwed and corner-blocked properly, it can pull apart. Thayer Coggin, however, is a quality brand and I am sure that their frames are built to withstand the pressure of the webbing.

Another reason for using webbing (other than a lower cost than 8 way hand-tied) is when a manufacturer is building a low-profile (usually contemporary style) piece. Sometimes there just isn't enough room beneath the seat to fit an 8 way hand-tied unit. Webbing gives you the flattest and shallowest profile possible.

From a comfort standpoint I'm sure that Duane would give the edge to the 8 way hand-tied unit but after 30 years of testing I still can't tell the difference in comfort between different spring systems. I find the comfort difference exclusively in the cushions, the depth of the seat and the pitch of the back.

Jeff Frank
Simplicity Sofas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by simplyjeff

Matrix webbing is an updated version of the old Pirelli webbing that has been around about as long as 8 way hand-tied. From a durability standpoint, a well-built sofa with a matrix webbing will last just as long as 8 way hand-tied.

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Please excuse me but, I have to defend my trade and what I know to be right. Although not everyone will agree with me, but this is what I know from seeing the good and the bad in the furniture industry over 30 years, plus working on furniture that is 6 to 160 years old.

I'm sorry but as an upholsterer with over 30 years in the business and a lot of it repairing new furniture, I have to 100% disagree with Jeff's statement. Matrix webbing is not the same in feel or quality to coil springs and 8 way ties. Sorry but not even close.

For one the feel is very different. A coil spring and elastic webbing feel like night and day. Springs have bounce and compression while elastic webbing bottoms out and is, at first, stiff.

Two, I have never seen elastic webbing last 30 years. I make a good living replacing worn out elastic webbing on new furniture. Yes I replace it with Matrix elastic webbing but that is what is called for in today's level of quality in furniture.

While I have reused coil spring in antiques that are well over 100 years old. Yes the jut webbing and twine need to be replaced but usually this is after 30 to 40 years of use. No rubber webbing is going to last that long. Even Pirelli webbing, which was the top of the line webbing, will dry rot after 20 or 30 years.

Another point on Pirelli and Matrix webbing. You can still get Pirelli webbing and this would be my webbing of choice, but the cost is about $180, my cost, a role where as Matrix is $50 a role my cost.

So why do new furniture manufacturers use Matrix and not Pirelli or 8 way hand tied coil springs? Price and skill is the reason.

Anyone, I mean anyone can staple, stretch and staple tight elastic webbing to a frame. I can reweb a sofa in about 15 minutes tops. But 8 way hand tied not only takes about 6 to 8 hours from scratch on a sofa to jut web, tie down the springs, tie and springs and add an edge role plus add the added need for skilled workers.

Again anyone who can pull 20 pounds of webbing tension can be trained to elastic web a seat within 20 minutes of training tops.

If quality means anything then 8 way hand tied coil springs are the top. Matrix or any other elastic webbing are at the bottom of the quality scale.

Every week it seems I talk to someone who is in need to have their sofa or chaired rewebbed.

Bill
Master Upholsterer

Excellent info Bill, welcome to the Forum.

Thank you drcollie, I thought for sure I would get flack for writing such comments. I know others may disagree with what I said, but we here in the USA, not to be to nationalistic, but use to make some beautiful furniture. It's sad to see an art disappearing and people forgetting what our parents and grand parents know, that furniture was meant to last a life time.
Bill

Actually, I like the way you explain the technical differences in the various suspension systems, Bill. Consumers can't see the interiors of the pieces they buy and you are able to give them some insight on the repair and restoration side of things as to longevity and use, etc. This forum is all about education and sharing knowledge for folks to get the best bang for their hard-earned buck and I'm glad to see your contributions.

The good furniture is still out there, but its up to us in the industry to show people why something costs what it does, and why its worth the money over something that looks similar but is half the price.