Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

Hello,
After with a few trips to furniture stores combined with doing significant research on this forum and elsewhere, we decided to go with H and M Austin High Back Sofa and Chair with matching ottomans. We upgraded to aniline leather (Capri) after reading that Town & Country program leathers (especially Document) were prone to chipping finishes and friction wear.
{order placed 2/22/20}
While at the furniture store the Sundance Chair and Ottoman in Portfolio Claret caught our eyes (a market design sample), so those came home with us. :o
Attachment 13719

The Austin pieces were delivered on 5/18/20. I pointed out some concerns to the delivery guys who took photos of areas on the sofa and chair for the dealer to address. Several areas where the leather looked dry and flaky, rub marks and small scratches on the sofa, plus a large scar/scrape on the chair. Is this normally how Capri Butternut and Capri Bordeaux would look?
Attachment 13717Attachment 13716Attachment 13715

See more photos on my flickr site:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUm6Gzh Photos day delivered

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUm8Pbp Photos of the 6 pieces

With Covid shutdowns and illnesses it took a while for the dealer to get back to us with a reply. She said that those places in the leather were a natural part of the type of leather we chose, however H&M would ship the sofa back to be repaired if we would like them to do so. Since it had taken so long to receive the items and Covid shutdowns were extended, we had no idea how many months we’d be without living room furniture, so decided against return.

As the months have passed additional issues with the sofa and ottoman are making us question if the correct leather was used or if there is a serious quality issue happening. :confused:

Attachment 13714

More photos of the deterioration can be found here:
https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUmxpb3

This kind of deterioration doesn’t seem possible in 9 months. The sofa is the piece that gets utilized the least. Both of the chairs are my husband’s go-to for watching TV, and we typically do the majority of that in the lower room where the Sundance chair is located. No pets or children are on the furniture. We’ve had very few visitors. No one is allowed to put feet on the ottomans with shoes still on, yet the Capri Butternut is starting to flake exposing light spots. My husband and I are tall, but not obese. I wipe all the pieces off regularly with a damp soft cloth, (occasionally including 1 drop of Ivory in a bottle of water to spray the cloth). I have not yet conditioned them with Leather Solutions that Duane has recommended. Neither of the chairs nor matching ottomans are showing signs of wear. Is there something we’ve missed in maintenance and care? No instructions were received from H and M or the dealer.

I was under the impression that aniline leather was dyed all the way through the hide, yet what is showing is light colored, like a cheap leather.
The H and M site states the following for the leathers coverings on our pieces:

Capri Butternut and Capri Bordeaux
Class 4
Unprotected
Capri is a full top grain aniline leather with a hand rubbed effect and has no protective finish. Capri is made on an excellent selection of South German hides.

Portfolio Claret
Class 3
Protected
Portfolio is a top grain aniline dyed leather with a protective finish. Portfolio has a hand-rubbed finish for a two-tone effect. Portfolio is a slightly heavier weight leather with an excellent hand.

In my early teens my parents purchased a leather sofa, chair and ottoman in a local furniture store. They don’t recall the name brand. They’ve never wiped them down or treated them with anything. My parents, siblings, and our children have always just plopped down on those pieces with no concern. Besides needing interior cushions replaced, they look fantastic for being over 45 years old.

Do I go back to the dealer raising a red flag that the incorrect leather was used or that there is a quality issue? Looking for guidance on how best to handle this situation.


P.S. Sorry about some of the images not being upright. First post here and couldn't find out to align them correctly.

Sorry, I don't want to comment on how to interact with your selling dealer when you have an ongoing issue such as this, however I would encourage you to contact the store owner and express your concerns to them to find a solution. Good luck.

Thanks Duane

That must be so disappointing, sorry you are dealing with it. The other photos you posted on Flickr make it almost look like there was a step missed in the finishing or something. Not sure how that is possible but if it were me I would want it shipped back and fixed or replaced, even if I had to deal with a rented couch or something for a couple of months while I waited.

Thank you Danw99, I appreciate your comments. Yes, disappointed. Definitely not the quality I expected especially from H and M. I'm guessing that even a really cheaply made leather sofa would last more than 9 months. Thankfully, the dealer we purchased from has a very good reputation, as does H and M, so hoping it will be dealt with appropriately. We'll make due with other furniture, but since it took nearly 3 months to receive I'm guessing with Covid's impact on logistics and raw materials that we will be in for a much longer wait. Glad that the other four pieces are fine - though I still don't know if the scar/scrap on the Capri Bordeaux is a natural feature to expect on this type of leather, or is something that happened between manufacturing and delivery.

I appreciate the position you are in Duane, and why you don't want to comment. This is just frustrating to read though because I would really like to educate myself on what can cause leather problems and what might cause something like this. I hope the OP posts the resolution and if they are ever told the cause.

I have seen this happen before on Capri. It's rare. I have had this situation occur twice over the years. Both times I caught it before delivery during unboxing to the client and took detailed photos of the areas to email to the customers before we made delivery.

In one instance, the piece was returned to Hancock and Moore immediately and panels in question were re-leathered and it came back how I expected it to be originally. In the second instance, the client saw the photos and it was acceptable to him and they wanted delivery understanding it is what it is, and that didn't bother them. In my opinion, these "bad" areas should have been caught by the Marker at H&M prior to cutting and those areas salvaged. Here is a recliner in Capri delivered in 2009 that was one of those two pieces:

http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...ht=grant+capri

Capri is a very expensive leather, and I know they don't want to salvage areas like in the photos due to cost of waste, and it becomes a judgement call. Go to this post and scroll to Post # 13 to see what the Marker does and how they layout leathers to be cut.

http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...actories/page2

If a customer wants to object to the finish on the leather such as shown above it needs to be done when they are new, not 9 months afterwards, quite honestly. A good dealer will also catch this prior to delivery and run it by the customer if there is a possible issue. It's very much like buying a new car, you have to catch cosmetic flaws at time of delivery and resolve then. Once time and use begin, then things become questionable. In any case, a remedy would involve returning the pieces to the factory for Inspection and possible correction - only H&M can make that determination. Lack of using a Conditioner is also an issue, leather should always be conditioned. I can't comment any more beyond the above as it involves another dealer and their policies.

That makes sense for the issues found in the leather on delivery, but the damage showing up since then in a 9 month period is disconcerting to say the least in an expensive hide like Capri. With my sofa, the instructions that came with the conditioning kit H&M sent me didn't even recommend conditioning until the pieces were a year old. I still hope they let us know what the resolution is and what H&M thinks if they do return the items to them for inspection and repair. I am really hoping to purchase a piece in Capri this year, if I can, and this type of issue would be heart breaking to me because it would consitute a real splurge and a pretty indulgent gift to myself after a very difficult year, lol.

It's kind of interesting that H&M never specify the appropriate treatment for any kind of leather on their site or things that invalidate the warranty, etc. I never got any info from 2 local dealers and one of them simply gave me Neiman leather wipes.

There is no warranty on leather from Hancock and Moore. For correct leather care, go to this thread

http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...for-all-brands

95% of all consumer leather wear and use complaints can be traced back to failure to clean and condition the leather.

Great News! They will be picking up the sofa and ottoman to be recovered! Thankful!

Duane, will you share more of what happened on the Capri Butternut?

They will also pick up the Capri Bordeaux chair for repair. I requested that the H and M representative look at the photo to see if the spot on the side panel is a scrape or a natural scar that is to be expected. Would appreciate input from anyone on the matter. Attachment 13762Attachment 13763

I can't tell you what a relief it is to receive an answer and have my faith in H and M and the dealer restored! I was questioning my sanity for spending nearly $20K for the six pieces that I thought would last us the rest of our lives.

That is great news. I hope we get more information. The mark on the cushions looks like a scar to me, but I am no expert, and it looks like an area that should have been cut out or cut around as Duane said. The wear on the piping bothers me the most. The dryness in the arm area looks like lack of conditioning, but doesn't make sense in new leather unless it was something that sat in a showroom warhouse for several years with no care. They don't even recommend cleaning and conditioning until the furniture is a year old. Since this is a hide I would like to use, I would really like to know what you find out and what H&M does for you. Thank you for sharing your experience and keeping us up to date on the response you have gotten.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drcollie

I have seen this happen before on Capri. It's rare. I have had this situation occur twice over the years. .... I can't comment any more beyond the above as it involves another dealer and their policies.

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Duane, will you share more of what happened on the Capri Butternut since my dealer is picking up the sofa and the 1.5 ottoman next Tuesday?

They will also pick up the Capri Bordeaux chair for repair if we want. I don't know if the spot on the side panel is a scrape or a natural scar that is to be expected with Capri. Would appreciate your opinion on the matter.

I'm sorry, I don't want to get in the middle since your dealer is taking care of this for you. Good luck.