Nonprotected Leathers that aren't pull ups

I'm planning to purchase a Journey sectional however I'm having problems deciding on the right leather. I would really like to go with a non protected leather in a dark rich brown color and is not a pull up as I'm concerned about the scratches that my weimarner may make. She rarely gets on my current leather sofa which is not protected however the surface scatches she creates with her claws can be completedly rub out for the most part. It sounds like Antelope is the best of both worlds as it looks like a non protected and is also soft however I really don't want to go up to a grade 4. Ideally, I would like to stay at grade 2 or 3. I' considering the columbia coffee however the pictures I've seen online appear to have a redish tone and I'm concerned it is going to look too cheap and not like the real leather look that I want.

So, my question is whether or not there any other options than going with Antelope saddle or nugget at a grade 4 if I want a rich brown that is soft and has some level of protection and will not scratch easily (e.g. non pull-up)? I like the coloring of the document tobbacco I have seen in person and I understand it doesn't scratch easily however it appears a little too processed for my taste.

Thanks for any advise Duane or anyone else can provide.

I've had some issues with our cats scratching the protective coating on Antelope leather (I do keep their claws trimmed). I respond by cleaning and conditioning, but you can still see marks. I'm not sure how my experience would translate to the dog world.

Here's the thing with dogs/cats and leather furniture, there is no perfect cover! You basically can 'pick your poison' and decide which way you want to go if you choose to let your pets on the furniture:

Protected leathers (all of them) have a topcoat, that the pets can scratch, such as Aaron has experienced. The scratches usually are light, and can be rubbed out in most cases (believe it or not, # 0000 steel wool is very effective at doing this but use a light touch).

Un-Protected leathers won't scratch, but the pets can stain the leather with their body oils. You can prevent some of this by staying on top of a cleaning regimen with Leathermagic products.

Look at the new Yardley leather that I just put a photo up in the RESOURCE PHOTOS section today on a # 1044 Sadler Recliner. That's a great GR 2 hide, and I have it in the store. Price is right, has a slight waxy topcoat so it has some resistance, and you get a natural leather look and feel. Its a light pull-up hide, however. As much as I like Antelope, I really feel that now that its a price grade 4 leather its not as good a value as it used to be. That makes the pieces expensive in that price grade. Other choices? Aspen is decent for a fully protected leather, but won't have the natural markings. Ryan and Atticus are two other new hides I like (together with Kipling) that are price grade 2. I'd not rule out the mild pull-ups, personally.

Document is so heavily processed, you won't have that 'real leather' feel or look. Columbia is great for a price grade 1 - and I prefer it to Document, but several of the price grade 2 hides will blow it away appearance and feel-wise.

Thanks Aaron and Duane. I realize there's not a perfect choice. I guess I will just need to be a little more careful if I go with the non protected. Regarding the scratches I hear what you are saying in that the non protected leathers will not scratch and maybe I'm not referring to the correct terminology. When I run a finger nail across a sample of say Capri Butternet or even Garfield the surface lightens however you can rub it and it returns to its orginal color. Doing the same with the upton or other pull-up samples I have though eliminates some of the lighten color but you can still see where a scratch was made. The Kipling is a little less noticable. Is this because of the degree to which it is a pull up? In the case of capri or garfield is it not a pull up? I'm just want to make sure that I don't have light colored claw marks all over the sofa in a few years due to the dog jumping up and down. I know I'm probably just being too picky and maybe I would learn to like it as it adds character, just not sure I would.

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Originally Posted by hills

...if I want a rich brown that is soft and has some level of protection and will not scratch easily (e.g. non pull-up)?

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Duane, is HILLS correct in using "pull-up" and "scratch easily" interchangably? I understand that pull-up refers to the lightening of the leather where its pulled tight, but what other traits do "pull-up" leathers have? Are they all high sheen? Waxy? Designed to scratch?

At your shop a month ago, you had a sofa with shiny red leather with red suede fabric seats. What leather was that and is that a "pull-up"?

Thanks, Dustin

A 'pull-up" leather is designed to lighten when pulled tightly - that's the definition of the term. This is one of the issues when looking at samples on a rack, the leather is loose and has never been handled or 'stretched', and this is why when you select a hide you really want someone helping you that explains this. Here's the classic leather scenario I see every single day in the store - it never changes. Once someone has decided to buy a leather sofa they are overwhelmed with leather choices and they go right to the color and sheen to select a leather. They focus way too much on that little 6' x 8" swatch and ignore the other characteristics of the hide. And they get way too hung up on Protected vs, Unprotected along with thickness of the leather. Big Mistake. I try to steer them away from those criteria (usually I'm only mildly successful) and try to show them that a certain hide will create a different look and feel from another one, even though they are nearly identical on the swatches in terms of color. Put the swatches down and step away from them. Best to view color from several feet away. Instead, walk around the store and see what appeals to you in texture, looks and special effects. Doesn't matter what color it is. Once you find that leather 'look' that you like, then come in for the colors (realizing more leathers vary up to 20% in dye lots from the swatch).

For a good example, look at H&M's 'Continental" series, a Price Grade 5 leather. No one ever orders this hide, which is too bad, because its just stunning when its made up. Part of that is the price of course, but the swatches themselves look and feel stiff, over-glazed, and only middling in appeal. It gets skipped on by. But that glazing on the hide is not a topcoat! It's pressed-in wax, done in a very expensive vacuum process. As the leather is handled in the making of a piece, it begins to relax and the waxes move around the piece where its pulled and stretched, and by the time the piece is done it looks nothing like the swatch, just the most luxurious leather you have ever seen.

Pull-ups are for leather aficionados. Most of us in the business order our own personal pieces in pull-up leather, because it looks just great when its done, and is always changing over time. Its going to be lighter where its stretched on the frame or corners, and that adds to the luxury look, All scratches are usually in the waxy topcoat, and they rub right out with a friction rub of a fist that reflows the wax with heat and pressure. The reality of it is you might fiddle with these surface marks the first few days of ownership then won't bother with it after the newness wears off. They're not truly 'un-protected', the wax fends off a lot of things. The only leathers currently in the H&M line that you have to seriously be concerned with staining are the Lambskins and Suedes.

Maintenance is the # 1 thing by far. The two primary destroyers of leather furniture are sun exposure and failure to clean the leather. Too much sun will blow the color out, and failure to clean the leather (protected or non-protected) results in dirt and oils attacking the tannins in the leather and causing it to crack and degrade. its really more important to clean and condition the leather than to worry too much about protected/unprotected.

That's the Paley sofa I have in the store. The leather on that is Tiburon, and its designed to have a mild pull-up and distressed hairline marks in the hide.

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Originally Posted by drcollie

Pull-ups are for leather aficionados. Most of us in the business order our own personal pieces in pull-up leather, because it looks just great when its done, and is always changing over time. Its going to be lighter where its stretched on the frame or corners, and that adds to the luxury look, All scratches are usually in the waxy topcoat, and they rub right out with a friction rub of a fist that reflows the wax with heat and pressure.

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So pull-up leathers have a pull-up effect because of the wax in the topcoat, which would imply that the more pull-up effect a leather has, the waxier the look and feel of the leather will be. Furthermore, the waxy topcoat is what causes the "scratched" look. So you couldn't really have a pull-up leather without it scratching by design. Duane, am I reading this wrong?

Along those lines, if a leather has a waxy topcoat (pull-up?), does that mean it will have a strong sheen OR is how waxy a leather is unrelated to how much sheen it has? One comment I see frequently on the forum is that the finished/protected leathers have more sheen than the aniline/unprotected ones; where do the pull-ups (e.g. kipling, upton, yardley, ryan) fit into this comparison? And how about Olde English, which you say scratches very easily, but also describe as having a low sheen.

I obviously have these correlations confused, so I'm very grateful for any clarificaition you can provide.

Sort of....(hows that for a definite answer?). Most pull-ups (but not every one) have a waxy topcoat, but the degree of the effect of the 'lightening' is not relative to the topcoat. Its in the color coat. All Waxy topcoats will surface mark, but the key to that is 'surface', not below the color coat. Most pull-ups actually show very few surface marks "i.e, scratches" because they move on and off the piece as its used. For example, I have a pull-up (Upton Cafe) on my office chair here in the store, and its really not marked up at all. Its all in what the tannery wants the leather to 'show'. They can engineer it one way or another.

As a general rule : More Sheen = More Resistance to Stains/Spills. Less Sheen/No Sheen = More apt to absorb.

I clump Kipling/Upton/Yardley/Ryan into pretty much the same category.

Old English comes out of the box marked up with surface scratches, I kid you not. First time I opened one up, many years ago I was horrified! But they are all designed to be there and those were the normal marks in making the chair. Customer that order Old English love that look.

Another Generality: "Natural" Leathers with no sheen or very low sheen are the most luxurious and most fun. They are just wonderful to sit in. But - they stain easily, so you have to be a tad careful with your lifestyle. I'd never put a pure natural leather in an office chair, because I always have a drink on my desk, and sooner or later its going to spill and get on my chair and my keyboard. The Keyboard I can replace for $ 39.95 at Staples, but I don't want to ruin a $ 1,500 office chair. So the most I'll do on my office chair is a waxy pull-up hide.