Carmen Sofa questions

[thomdm]

I am looking to replace the Evening Sofa in my living room and I like the look of the Carmen Sofa. I have never sat in a seatback similar to this and hope yall can provide input on how this seatback feels. I have a bad back and hip so I need it to provide good back support, but I wouldn't want it to be too hard. Also, on the infrequent occasions I lie down on the sofa, can anyone tell me what it's like on this sofa. Are the arms too rigid or too high when using with a throw pillow? Thanks for any help, Dennis

[drcollie]

The Carmen is totally different the the Evening sofa, the latter is a big, soft marshmallow of a sofa with thick cushions. The Carmen is a tight back, thinner seat cushions and will sit firmer. Also, it doesn’t really have the built in pillows for napping like the Evening arms. Generally firmer sofas are easier to get out of that soft ones.

Stylistically, it’s a tremendous sofa. Very handsome, especially from the back. Throw pillows will make it better, but it’s not really a lay down sofa like some are.

[thomdm]

The Carmen is totally different the the Evening sofa, the latter is a big, soft marshmallow of a sofa with thick cushions. The Carmen is a tight back, thinner seat cushions and will sit firmer. Also, it doesn’t really have the built in pillows for napping like the Evening arms. Generally firmer sofas are easier to get out of that soft ones.

Stylistically, it’s a tremendous sofa. Very handsome, especially from the back. Throw pillows will make it better, but it’s not really a lay down sofa like some are.

Thank you for your comments. We are really enjoying the 5 pieces I bought from you in the 2012/2013 timeperiod. My take on what you wrote is that the Carmen may be better for a formal sitting area rather than in a living room where it is going to be used everyday. Am I correct in my reading? I am looking for something with a firmer back, but I need it to be comfortable enough to sit several hours a day. We love the Evening sofa and I did buy the extra firm cushions, but both the seat and back on both ends don't provide any support. I probably need to get replacement cushions, but we are looking to move this one into another room and purchase a new sofa with a different color Capri leather for our main living room.

[drcollie]

I think its more of a preference. For my everyday sofa usage, I would select a Carmen sofa over an Evening every day, because I like tight back sofas and lots of style. I also prefer firmer. There are all types of sofas because everyone likes something different. Ultimately style factors into all of it as well, because if you just want a basic box sofa, you buy a Doyle or Ricki from H&M and call it a day. One of the issues in 2023 is guessing what might be best. New furniture is expensive in a post-Covid priced world, and it would be difficult to find a Carmen in a store as a floor model because they don't have incentives on that piece. We dealers almost always floor promotional pieces because every customer that walks in wants a "Floor Model Discount" of several hundred dollars. Were I to bring a Carmen sofa in on the floor, it would be at regular price and I could not floor model discount the unit. That's why you tend to see the same floor models at authorized dealers....they are all deal pieces.

[thomdm]

Thank you so much for your comments. When I purchased my current items back in 2013, it took me quite a while to decide on all the pieces and what leather to put on each one. This time, it's going to be a very quick process, since I read tons of information on your forum previously and now know where to look for most of my answers. I believe I am down to 2 choices, the 6042-3-T UTOPIA TUFTED SOFA and the 5628 CARMEN SOFA. Would both of these sit similar to the Gibbs chair I purchased previously? If not, how would they differ from one another? In 2013, I put Capri Bordeaux on my Gibbs chair and it still looks and feels incredible. Even though I know that there would be some difference in color in the 10 year old leather and the new sofa, I had hoped to put Capri Bordeaux on the new sofa. From the H&M website, it seems that this leather/color is no longer available. What leather would you recommend that would be most similar in look and feel as a replacement to the Capri Bordeaux. Thank you for your input.

[drcollie]

Myself, I would go for the Carmen every day over the Utopia. I brought one floor model Utopia Tufted into my store as a floor display a few years ago and I did not care for it. It sat "small" and the pitch in the back felt off to me. It's been 9 years since the retired Gibbs chair was last through my store, sorry - I don't recall how it sat. Yes, Capri Bordeaux is gone - there is really not another leather in the line that is similar to it, sorry. The Carver Sangria is probably closest, and is actually nicer than Capri, but its a GR 7 leather, which will really jack the price on a sofa sized piece.

[thomdm]

I would like to get samples of a few different leathers for the Carmen sofa. Do I request those here or somewhere else? Thank you.

[drcollie]

best to use QUOTES AND ORDERS section here on the forum so your address remains private. Or email. keepingroom@gmail.com.

[thomdm]

I received the 3 leather samples I requested. I have samples of the Carver olive, Carver sangria, and the Capri butternut. I really wish the Capri Bordeaux was still available since I have it on one of my occasional chairs and it is beautiful. The Carver sangria looks very nice, but it's a little too close to the Capri Bordeaux, but not quite there and I don't think they would look good next to each other. I love the feel of the Capri butternut. The sample is the normal small size so it's hard to imagine the color on the sofa. Some of the pictures I've seen on the forum make it look like the leather has a bit of a red color within the tan. Can anyone with this leather tell me if they see a hint of red in the leather, or if it looks just like a pretty, tan color? I would actually like a bit of a red tint. I also really like the Carver olive color. The sample feels a little waxy and it's not nearly as soft as the Capri sample. Could anyone with a Carver leather item tell me how it feels on a piece of furniture? It's a higher grade leather, but is it as soft as the Capri? Thank you for any assistance.

[drcollie]

Carver is the ultimate leather from Hancock & Moore, its the only "fresh water" tannery in the world I am told, situated in Italy using spring water from the Alps. That's what gives it a unique hand according to Tray Petty, President of Moore & Giles, the exclusive distributor of Carver in the USA. He and I sat down and talked leather for about an hour and a half at the 2022 October Market. Carver not only uses the finest steer leather, it has a vacuum-pressed wax finish to it. At a GR 7 price, you have to want it. I had the Olive color here in the store on a wing chair, but it sold and delivered this past Saturday. The person who bought it, just loved the color of the hide.

Capri has a different hand than Carver. It's a wonderful hide and I sell more Capri than any other dealer worldwide. But, most dealers don't understand it and say "Oh, you don't want that - you have to have a protected leather". And people listen to these know-nothing salespeople and then order a painted leather <rolling eyes) - which is the bulk of what H&M sells. People come to stores to get educated on leathers because - wisely -they don't want to make a mistake on a relatively expensive purchase. The vast majority of people selling leather furniture do not bother to learn the differences, either because they are lazy or simply don't care. So you wind up with a whole lot of painted leathers (protected) rolling out the factory and few pure anilines. When sales don't support a certain leather in the lineup, it gets removed. That's a shame, too - because Capri is an extraordinary hide. The original tannery that made it was in Slovakia years ago, and it closed down. Tim Rogers of Hancock and Moore worked very hard to get another tannery to make it, and finally found one in Germany that would do it. And you know what? The German tannery did it better than the Slovakian one! Because of falling demand for it, Hancock and Moore is phasing out Capri. Bordeaux has been dropped and just this week they announced that Navy is on the drop list as well. Butternut and Harness are still current. I suspect that Bordeaux is a H&M drop, not one from the Tannery itself so I have a call into H&M to see if they can order more. I will update this thread when I hear back on it. Butternut has an amber tone to it, Harness is more a true light brown. Capri is more of a nappy leather, there is no pressed wax into the finish. So while I would not say its softer, I will say it has a different feel to it. More of a velvet texture.

Hope that helps!