Hancock and Moore vs Bradington and Young

[drcollie]

Hi Mary, and welcome to the forum! I'll address what I can and plead ignorance on what I can't answer

I have to preface by saying I've not studied the Ralph Lauren pieces in detail. I'd need about 15 minutes of poking around one them to render an opinion, but I can tell you I've sold a number of Chancellor sofas and they are exquisite. Let me tell you what to look for in Button Tufting on Leather and then you can compare/contrast.

Button Tufting is the hardest single operation to do in leather upholstery, and like in most things there is the right way to do it and the cheap and easy way. The highest skilled workers do button tufting pieces, and they are also the highest paid in the shop. Its a difficult operation and time-consuming to do it correctly. When I was at H&M last fall I saw (8) men doing the button tufting and not a one of them was under 40 years old as I recall. They were definitely experienced at their craft.

To properly do a button tuft, it has to be sewn-on, and a very long needle is passed back and forth through the back webbing many times to attach a button. Sewn on buttons don't pop off. The cheap way to do it is with a tagging gun, similar to fabric taggers that attach price tags on garments. The gun shoots an expanding barb into the back webbing and the button stays on as long as the barb is intact. They frequently fail and then the buttons pop off.

Look at the 'diamond' between the buttons. It should be full and have a resilient cushion to it. Only H&M that I know of places and extra piece of high density foam in that diamond area which makes it look far more attractive and sit better as well. I know the other brands of leather I carry skip that step.

Also check the leather folds in the diamonds. They should match on all corners and be pulled tight. Once again, H&M does them better than anyone.

I know I sound like a shill for Hancock and Moore, but they do deliver a consistently good product and sweat the details. There is H&M at the top, and then everyone else in tiers below them. They will customize as well...and make virtually anything a person can write the check for. Some custom options are very reasonable, others you will pay dearly for.

As to leathers, they have some terrific hides in the upper classes of III, IV and V that will more than meet the test of warm/blunt. Capri and Quintessence at Class IV are right in there and worth checking out.

Look at the R. Lauren button-tufting and see how its done using the guidelines above. Also check all around the piece and see if you feel the square edge of the wood anywhere on the piece under the hide. When its done right, you should not be able to grab a hard edge.

[maryh]

Hi Duane, Thank you for the information on tufting and I'm so glad you have had the chancellor and like it. The proportions of the chancellor are perfect. What the Ralph Lauren has that HM doesn't is the curve backs- but I guess there's always the HM camel back tufted sofa- however- it's not as deep as the chancellor. Maybe I can get that customized. The wallace looks comfortable, never sat in it, but is more of a clunky look. Have sat in the noble estate and is nice. I wonder how much it would be to make the RL noble estate? Giorgi Bros is in my area- SF- and thought I would order from them, but disappointed that they don't want to talk about custom unless it's a little thing, and don't really tell me what that means.
Again, thank you, Mary

[maryh]

Hi Duane,
Of course I thought of another question. With the chancellors that you ordered, what chairs did you pair them with?
Thanks again,
Mary

[drcollie]

Hi Duane, Thank you for the information on tufting and I'm so glad you have had the chancellor and like it. The proportions of the chancellor are perfect. What the Ralph Lauren has that HM doesn't is the curve backs- but I guess there's always the HM camel back tufted sofa- however- it's not as deep as the chancellor. Maybe I can get that customized. The wallace looks comfortable, never sat in it, but is more of a clunky look. Have sat in the noble estate and is nice. I wonder how much it would be to make the RL noble estate? Giorgi Bros is in my area- SF- and thought I would order from them, but disappointed that they don't want to talk about custom unless it's a little thing, and don't really tell me what that means.
Again, thank you, Mary

H&M does make a curved classic piece that was introduced at Market last Fall. Its the # 4845 Envelop Sofa, and its quite handsome. Size may be an issue however, as its 118" long and there is no loveseat version. It would be costly to size it down I'm afraid, because the frame is curved and would require a lot of work to scale it. Impressive sofa however, I saw one and tried it out last trip to the H&M Factory. If that piece interests you I can always call Jimmy Moore and see it they will think about adding a smaller size to the line - doesn't hurt to ask.

http://www.hancockandmoore.com/produ...productid=1786

I normally pair the # 1317 Rouleau Tufted Chair, or the # 4409 Easton or the # 4130 Dockrey with the Chancellor Sofa.

Most stores don't want to do major customs because its a lot of work, involving drawings, back n' forths and the like. And the truth is most customers don't want to pay the price for the custom work, either.

[maryh]

Hi Duane,
Somehow, what I wrote earlier didn't get posted. If it did, sorry for the repetition.
The envelope sofa is not what I mean by a curved back. It's more like the Venetion Sofa #073-01 and for the chair its the Noble Estate chair #081-03. I just wish HR made something similar. I'd be paying 6,560 for sofa and $3258. I like the legs of Noble Estate and the sofa should have similar legs. However, do you imagine that a custom of those pieces would be in that price range?
Thank you,
Mary

[drcollie]

I see now what you're looking for, Mary. H&M doesn't really do full one-off customs like that, the cost would be prohibitive. When they do customs, its mostly a modification to an existing design, sorry! If that's the pieces you would like its going to be best to buy them from Ralph Lauren.

[todd_kachadoorian]

The "toddfather" is BACK!! LOL. Sorry for the delay in responding and I hope all is well here in the forum. Just to bring everyone back up to speed, I am still holding off on the furniture purchase and instead threw some junk slipcovers on the Natuzzi junk sofas that I still have! Duane, does H&M have anything close in style to the Sheffield? I would go for the H&M for the price diff any day but could not find anything in their lineup that is close to that styling. . . .

McCall, I called Currier's and I found that their prices were close to ones around here with the difference being in the savings on sales tax. Honestly, when I buy, it will be through the Keeping Room as I trust Duane! With 3 kids and a stay at home mom coupled with this recession thing, I am waiting to see things stabilize before taking the plunge. . . . .

[sofa123]

H&M does make a curved classic piece that was introduced at Market last Fall. Its the # 4845 Envelop Sofa, and its quite handsome. Size may be an issue however, as its 118" long and there is no loveseat version. It would be costly to size it down I'm afraid, because the frame is curved and would require a lot of work to scale it. Impressive sofa however, I saw one and tried it out last trip to the H&M Factory. If that piece interests you I can always call Jimmy Moore and see it they will think about adding a smaller size to the line - doesn't hurt to ask.

I hate replying to such an old post, but did user input get them to introduce the smaller 4843 Envelop?

The 4845 looks amazing. I hope they keep both Envelop's in the lineup.

The 4843 on their website shows what look like non-leather cushions(suede?) Is this an option or can it be ordered with all leather cushions. Does anyone on the forum own an Envelop?

[drcollie]

The Envelop series is aptly named, because it really does envelop you when you sit in it. I tried it out at Market and thought it marvelously comfortable and quite stylish, but it has a limited 'high style' market because of the design aesthetics. They'll stay in the line as long as they keep selling! Yes, you can get it all-leather, and most do. Suede cushion covers may look nice, but they're not real practical (you tend not to slide on them - at all).

[MJM_CA]

Sorry to bump up this old thread, but the info has been very helpful.

Thanks Duane!