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Thread: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

  1. #1
    ta_billy Guest

    Default Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    While shopping for furniture today, I discovered that a Chistopher motion ensemble by Bradington-Young has a recliner mechanism made in China.

    Can anyone confirm if all the Bradington-Young products with motion have recliner mechanisms made in China.

    I also found out that the recliner mechanism only has a 5 year warranty versus everything else is warrantied for life for the original owner.

    Flexsteel has a lifetime warranty on their recliner mechanisms as I understnad it.

    Any thoughts?

    Thanks,
    Billy

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    The 'Christopher' is the "900" series units you are referring to?. BY uses model numbers rather than names, so its difficult to determine exactly which you are speaking of. If its part of Seven Seas collection, then YES - it will have a Chinese mechanism as that entire line is 100 % imported. If its the mainline collection then it should have a USA-made Leggett and Platt mechanism in it, which is the best in the industry. How did you determine it was made in China if in the 900 series group? Did you see a "made in China" tag on it?

    Things do change in the industry and dealers are not always told about it. B-Y could have changed sourcing (the pressure from consumers to build things cheaper is enormous these days), OR, L&P could be producing mechanisms in China now. I'll look into it after I hear your reply on how you 'discovered' the mechanism was made in China on the US Furniture Line.

    Correct on the warranty. Its 5 years on mechanisms and they only pay labor to install and ship the part the first year. After that, they will give you the part at no charge, but you pay UPS and self-install or hire it done. B-Y and all the other companies follow the L&P warranty, which used to be lifetime - then was 10 years, and now is 5 years.

    Flexsteel is also 5 year warranty, as they use L&P in their USA product as well.

    Here's the thing with mechanisms....they will last a VERY long time if you don't allow kids to rough-house in the chair and never move the chair by picking it up when its extended. 95% of all failures I see in recliner mechanisms are due to abuse of the unit. Once in a great while, some one flat wears it out, the nylon bushings fall out -but usually the whole chair is done for at that point as well.

    I have a 24 year old H&M in use (Woodbridge Recliner) on the original mechanism, and its fine.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
    ta_billy Guest

    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    Yes, it is the 900 series. I was told by the sales lady that the unit was entirely manufactured domestically. I was very interested in the piece but I'm not budging on my "must be completely made in the US" position. I will pay the extra money for the quality and support in US manufacturing. I told her is was now time for me to vet the piece. I simply extened the recliner mechanism and read the tag, "Made in China".

    ...and out the door I went.

    My wife and I really liked the unit. It had a great look, good comfort level, and the reclining feature was a plus.

    I have looked at the Flexsteel products as well. Problem is that Flexsteel really does not have the equivalent of the 900 series BY. The Oslo reclining sofa by Flexsteel is a perfect 10 as far as comfort, but my wife and I really do not like the look. Flexsteel's really comfortable pieces look like "marshmellows" to us

    Any suggestions on an equivalent to the 900 series functionality and looks, but made in the US?

    I'm also looking for a high leg recliner, US made, that has good head support. Maybe some kind of high back? I'm looking for a tranditional lounge chair look with a reclining feature and good head support...maybe this is a red herring?

    I actually work for a large electronics contract manufacturer and I make my living chasing the "cost down - out source it to a low cost region model". Not real proud of it, but it is what I have to do for now to get by

    Any suggestions are GREATLY appreciated....and your site is fantastic and very helpful.

    Thanks,
    Billy

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    Yes, the 900 Series BY is made in the USA.

    I'll look into the L&P mechanisms and see what's up with the 'made in China' on them, or perhaps BY switched out of L&P into something less expensive. The pressure on manufacturers right now to make things cost less is enormous, and I would not be surprised if it turns out BY changed the spec on the mechanisms. I will find out in the next 48 hours or so. I want to know for my business as well.

    The perfect high leg recliner with good head support? Traditional? The Hancock and Moore # 1044 Sadler is unequalled in my opinion, but any other recliner from any maker. The # 7017 Miller from H&M is a close second.

    Flexsteel is what we call in the trade 'Joe Six-Pack' furniture. Not very high end, and pure utility grade.

    Glad you are liking the forum!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #5
    ta_billy Guest

    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    Thanks Duane!

    I visted another store dealing in BY yesterday. The salesman mentioned that he thought that BY was shipping in some of there lines to include the 900 series out of China "pre-configured", meaning that they bulk ship some of these units in only one or two covers. What you see is what you get. The manufacturer's are always quick to state that the units are built to their specifications so all should be well. However, I know better and I also want to employee Americans with my purchase.

    What do you think of 4242 Helmsley by BY?

    Do you have an opinion on Barcalounger?

    Again, thanks for your feedback!

    Billy

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    I went to the source at Leggett. Here's the deal on the mechanisms according to their Division VP. This is the best mechanism in the industry, there is nothing else to source up to. I think at this point its kind of like buying a computer - if you want a new one you may have to take one built overseas.

    email follows:

    Mr. Collie

    ‘Leggett has four manufacturing sites for Furniture Hardware, including Motion products. Two locations are in the US (Saltillo, MS and Leitchfield, KY). Two are in China (Jiaxing and Taizhou). All products produced in all facilities are US engineered and the specifications are the same, regardless of where they are produced. When new products are developed, they are normally launched here first so that we can provide US manufacturers and retailers the opportunity to differentiate from existing, in-line product.

    You and your customers can tell where the mechanisms are manufactured by looking at the label on the side of the mechanism. All should be labeled with the Seal of Assurance, indicating it has been made in a Leggett facility to exacting specifications, and another label which will indicate which of the four previously mentioned facilities that particular mechanism was manufactured at.’

    We want to continue provide a global brand that retailers and consumers recognize and trust. Let me know should need more information.

    Sincerely,


    Richard L. Weeks
    Division Vice President
    Eastern U.S. Region
    Home Furniture Components
    Leggett & Platt, Inc

    Salesperson is incorrect that the 900 series is coming out of China 'pre-configured'. That piece is USA-made.

    Barcalounger is not very good. B-Y is much better quality.

    # 4242 is a mainstay lounger. Good piece! Sits well for most folks.

    Hope that answers the question, and these are the kind I really like on the forum, where I can dig out an answer on something like that 'made in china' sticker on the mechanism and find out new information for myself as well.

    Glad to help!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    I have a Barcalounger that I purchased aprox 6 years ago before I was up on high end furniture. I will tell you my thoughts on it. price was right at $900 . It is very comfortable. Very smooth operation. Not one problem yet. Now compaired to my dadinlaws H&M that I purchased for him you can feel the difference in the leather. H&M is very supple class2 soft to the touch and smooth. Barcalounger has a very thick leather with more texture but has not one wear spot or crease. To me they are both just as comfortable just one is softer. I am now a H&M guy so I am biased toward that brand now but to be honest I like my Barcalounger for the price. You can see a pic of it in a thread I started called october sofa and campaign ottoman.

  8. #8
    ta_billy Guest

    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    Thanks again Duane and Kneebiter!

    OK, I will simply say one thing in resposne to Leggett. Since I have worked as a Mechanical Supplier Quality Engineer, Global Quality Engineer, and now as a Design Quality Engineer for a global contract manufacturer over the past several years with many experiences with sourcing components in China, US, Mexico and Europe, I'll be brutally honest. No matter what is said, from my experience products manufactured in China will not always be comparable to a US, Canadian, German, or Japanese made product, especially when it comes to mechanicals. The reasons are many and include things like raw material quality, process quality, and accountability (or lack of).

    Leggett will have problems with sourcing their mechanicals out of China...you can bet on it. As soon as Leggett turns a blind eye, the China product will become problematic. Then Leggett will have to turn their attention to the problem, which ends up costing more than the cost reduction provided by sourcing the product in China. However, this is tough to prove and quantify because how does one account for lost business and sales through bad quality?

    If Leggett is top of line for reclining mechanicals and all I can get is sourced out of China, I will not hestitate to let Leggett know if and when I'm unhappy with their product.

    This makes me very unhappy to know that I may not have an American made option on this.

    One last thing: Since I have not priced any H&M products, what can I expect to pay for similar products from H&M and BY. Order of magnitude...is H&M 150%, 200%, other the cost of BY?

    Thanks,
    Billy

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    This is really interesting to me, this thread on the mechanisms,so I've been on the phone this morning to learn more about it. Billy, what you are saying is pretty much right on the mark. In checking with some of the motion furniture makers today, failure rates on the L&P mechanisms are increasing, and its the opinion of the some of the makers that is due in part to L&P sourcing from China for the mechanisms. When the companies order mechanisms from L&P, they do not know if they are going to come form the US plants or the ones from China, and they cannot specify. L&P enjoys a reputation in the industry as being fiercely independent as well - so expect no changes in what they are now doing.

    There is another USA-made motion mechanism supplier 'Hickory Spring", but the thoughts are that the Leggett and Platt mechanism is still superior to it.

    L&P is the 900 lb gorilla in the motion furniture mechanism industry. There appear to be no suitable alternatives. (Job opportunity for someone who wants to start a new business!) Apparently they own the market at this time for making the best and most durable pieces.

    One of the things WE can do as customers of these makers is to not put quite so much pressure on manufacturers to lower the prices. I know that's easier than said than done, but believe me when I tell you that's all they hear in the executive offices, that the dealers want something to sell for less. And the dealers wouldn't be saying that if customers were not beating them up in the showrooms. Its no different in my store....for every customer that comes in and says "That's a beautifully made piece and worth the money" I get fifty that say "Can you show me something like that - only cheaper?" We Americans consumers have created the stampede to China for cheaper goods, and now we are living with the consequences. In the case of the L&P mechanisms, there is no viable alternative at this time.

    As to H&M vs B-Y on prices, on average I like the number 20 % to 25 % more for comparable H&M product.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bradington-Young recliner mechanism, made in China

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    One of the things WE can do as customers of these makers is to not put quite so much pressure on manufacturers to lower the prices. We Americans consumers have created the stampede to China for cheaper goods, and now we are living with the consequences. In the case of the L&P mechanisms, there is no viable alternative at this time.

    I'm not so sure that I would place the blame on the American consumer. The typical American household made less money last year than the typical household made a full decade ago. American families are struggling now more than ever, and an extra 100 dollars at the end of the month can go a long way to cover necessary expenses like food and shelter.

    Inequality has risen sharply, so much of the bounty from our growth has gone to a relatively small slice of the population. And with the Fed printing money as fast as it can to spend us out of trouble, inflation is a real threat in the next decade. (IMO)

    I think the pressure is coming more from Wall Street, who places higher and higher expectations on businesses to keep making record profits - thus making their stock more valuable. The only way to appease investors and keep from getting dumped on Wall St. is to make bigger profits. Bigger profits, as Duane has pointed out, come from lowering costs or raising prices - or both. Hence the move to cheap labor and/or inferior parts.

    I try to buy American as much as I possibly can - including H&M furniture through Duane. But I also have saved for the last 10 years to do so, and also have tapped into my IRA, and an extra 100 or 200 dollars really means a tremendous amount to me.

    I'd rather see Wall St. and the big corps take the blame for the "pressure on manufacturers to lower the prices." than the average working stiff. As a working, lower middle class guy, I haven't had a raise in 10 years, but the cost of living has climbed steadily. It's a necessity to shop around - not fun - but true.


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