Choosing a Fabric Sectional

[gbreda]

Maybe third time is a charm........

I have recently come across this forum and wish that I had months ago. I could have saved myself time and energy.

I began my journey with a 1500.00 budget for a sectional (fabric). I am now in the 3000.00 range. After 9-12 months, I am pretty much at square one again in the new price range. Unfortunately, I dont have the luxury of time any longer as the Flexsteel is being picked up and my old sofa was taken away. Ah well, live and learn.

I am going to CA Hoitt in Manchester NH tonight in order to check different manufactures. They seem to carry alot of the brands that I am seeing on this forum.

Here is my question in a nutshell, for a fabric sectional approx 95x95 (100 x 100 max) will I find a noticeable difference between 3000.00 to the 3500.00 range? I have a good line on a Hallagan at 2995.00 (Hubbington's Furniture in Barrington NH) and posssible some Smith Brothers approaching 3500.00? I'm looking for something that will last and be comfortable to sit or lay on after a long work day. The Halligan is very comfortable, but may be a bit large for the room.

This is vague, I know but am I making any sense? Boy has this been a learning experience.......

Thank You for any insight.

[drcollie]

A $ 500 difference in a sectional can easily be the the cost of the covering on the piece. As you discovered, $ 1,500 buys junk not worth taking home and in the $ 3K to $ 3.5K you're at the entry level of better furniture as long as the cover is not too expensive (low to middle price grade fabric).

Everything looks and feels good when its new. Poor quality furniture degrades rapidly with use, whereas quality made units will feel as good in 5 years as they did the day they left the showroom. Look for proper construction in the interior of the piece. The key elements you want for the best in construction:

Double steel banded base (where the spring attached). Banded side to side and front to back.

5/4" hardwood frames, double doweled, screwed and glued.

8-way hand-tied spring base

Dupont Qualax cushion cores wrapped in fiber with muslim case, or spring down.

Those are the basics to look for. Good luck!

[gbreda]

A $ 500 difference in a sectional can easily be the the cost of the covering on the piece. As you discovered, $ 1,500 buys junk not worth taking home and in the $ 3K to $ 3.5K you're at the entry level of better furniture as long as the cover is not too expensive (low to middle price grade fabric).

Everything looks and feels good when its new. Poor quality furniture degrades rapidly with use, whereas quality made units will feel as good in 5 years as they did the day they left the showroom. Look for proper construction in the interior of the piece. The key elements you want for the best in construction:

Double steel banded base (where the spring attached). Banded side to side and front to back.

5/4" hardwood frames, double doweled, screwed and glued.

8-way hand-tied spring base

Dupont Qualax cushion cores wrapped in fiber with muslim case, or spring down.

Those are the basics to look for. Good luck!

Thanks Duane

I have a few questions on the particular Brands I am looking at.

Hallagan has all you pointed out except they use "mortise and tenon/precise puzzle joinery" joints.

Smith Brothers use all you pointed out but uses a "unitized coil spring system" that they claim is superior to eight way hand tying. Hoitt's Fine Furniture had an unfinished demo piece to show this. It did look impressive, but again I am no judge on this.

Would either of these be "red flags" or are they done correctly, in their own particular manner?

Thanks

Geno

[drcollie]

Mortise and tenon joinery is absolutely the strongest way to join two pieces of wood (together with dovetails). I don't know of anyone doing that in the industry, but if they are truly doing that, then you can be assured that its rock-solid on the framework.

A 'unitized coil spring system' is a pre-made drop-in grid that is done to save money. Its far less expensive than the the old tried and true 8-way hand-tied coil spring system which must be put in place by hand. Its not a bad system, many makers use it - but its not superior in any way, shape or form. I'm always amused when I see claims like that. A true 8-way hand-tied spring system is the gold standard for the industry and also the most costly to do.

You're good to go on both these either way, no red flags on either of those points.

[gbreda]

Thanks again Duane

Check Hallagan's website. Click on GUARANTEE at the top and then Frame Construction. They are using mortise and tenon.....

http://www.hallaganfinefurniture.com/

Geno

[gbreda]

OK, on Hallagan, the frame is Engineered Hardwood (IE: Plywood, correct?). The sales people stated Kiln Dried when I asked about construction, but not stated on the website.

Is that a cost saving measure or properly made?

Thanks

[Briant73]

Mortise and tenon joinery is absolutely the strongest way to join two pieces of wood (together with dovetails). I don't know of anyone doing that in the industry, but if they are truly doing that, then you can be assured that its rock-solid on the framework.

A 'unitized coil spring system' is a pre-made drop-in grid that is done to save money. Its far less expensive than the the old tried and true 8-way hand-tied coil spring system which must be put in place by hand. Its not a bad system, many makers use it - but its not superior in any way, shape or form. I'm always amused when I see claims like that. A true 8-way hand-tied spring system is the gold standard for the industry and also the most costly to do.

You're good to go on both these either way, no red flags on either of those points.

Quick question, what if it's not TRUE eight way hand tied, I remember something about some manufacturer's taking shortcuts with them but don't remember the specifics.

[gbreda]

Looking at both companies I would say which ever one has a piece you find comfortable, like the look/style of, and find a Fabric that suits you.

True. The Hallagan is very comfortable for me. I have a bad disk in my neck from an injury, so a high back cusion effects me. There is a Smith Brothers series that is now disconinued that I found comfortable, but none of the units left in the store would fit my room. The current "5000" line had higher backs and were not comfortable.

I found an old smith brothers cutaway to show their construction methods on another website, not sure how current it is or if it's still accurate a dealer should be able to tell you though. Make sure to scroll down the page to see it.
http://www.grandhomefurnishings.com/smithbrothers.php

Thanks !!!! That does help. One dealer had a cutaway of the drop in spring system, but that was it. Looks similar to Hallagan in the back area design. Of course there are the Enginnered Hardwood vs Hardwood and the Dowelled Joints vs Through Mortise and Tennon.

Give and take on each piece.

Quick question, what if it's not TRUE eight way hand tied, I remember something about some manufacturer's taking shortcuts with them but don't remember the specifics.

drcollie made mention that it is probably not tied and most likely looped. I have not been able to get that one answered. It would be good to know the drawbacks, if any. If it was mentioned, I would think it would mean something.

Does it affect the performance over time?

This would be helpfull knowledge.

I will say that any dealer that I have called who carries Hallagan has put them at the top of their list of quality lines. I'm sure there are better, but that comes at a price.

[Briant73]

True. The Hallagan is very comfortable for me. I have a bad disk in my neck from an injury, so a high back cusion effects me. There is a Smith Brothers series that is now disconinued that I found comfortable, but none of the units left in the store would fit my room. The current "5000" line had higher backs and were not comfortable.

Thanks !!!! That does help. One dealer had a cutaway of the drop in spring system, but that was it. Looks similar to Hallagan in the back area design. Of course there are the Enginnered Hardwood vs Hardwood and the Dowelled Joints vs Through Mortise and Tennon.

Give and take on each piece.

drcollie made mention that it is probably not tied and most likely looped. I have not been able to get that one answered. It would be good to know the drawbacks, if any. If it was mentioned, I would think it would mean something.

Does it affect the performance over time?

This would be helpfull knowledge.

I will say that any dealer that I have called who carries Hallagan has put them at the top of their list of quality lines. I'm sure there are better, but that comes at a price.

I would say with either SB or Hallagan you can't do wrong for your budget. The people here could give you more brand recommendations if you shared your furniture budget and what you were looking to purchase. As to SB and high-backs I know they had a high-back when I went shopping that was very comfortable but it could be the one you heard was canceled. I think it was this model http://www.amish-oak.com/smith/slide...er%20Sofa.html

As for the springs I think when they are just looped and not tied, if something happens to one of the cords the springs in the area all get of whack whereas on hand tied should hold it because of the other tied cords holding in place. The experts will answer better than me though.

[gbreda]

I would say with either SB or Hallagan you can't do wrong for your budget. The people here could give you more brand recommendations if you shared your furniture budget and what you were looking to purchase. As to SB and high-backs I know they had a high-back when I went shopping that was very comfortable but it could be the one you heard was canceled. I think it was this model http://www.amish-oak.com/smith/slide...er%20Sofa.html

As for the springs I think when they are just looped and not tied, if something happens to one of the cords the springs in the area all get of whack whereas on hand tied should hold it because of the other tied cords holding in place. The experts will answer better than me though.

Yes, that is the SB that I found comfortable but discontinued. The 311 series. They currently have the 5000 series that puts a pressure point on my back.

My budget is around 3K for about 95" x 95" and the Hallagan is fitting that better than SB anyway. Even if I could get a SB 5000 series to my liking, it is $400-600 more.

Hubingtons Furniture in Barrington NH has the Hallagan in a fabric that we like and priced at 2979.00. It is also a few inches longer than the SB and is comfortable. I also spoke with the person that thought it was still kiln dried hardwood. After our discussion a few days ago questioning that, she had verified the change, so that was helpfull to her as well.

One more piece of advise...the fabric is Cleaning Base S and made up of 93% poly and 6 % Cotton. How well will this wear? What is best for spot cleaning?