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Thread: Different Classes of Leather

  1. #1

    Arrow Different Classes of Leather

    Hi Rosemary,

    Classes of leather are nothing more than pricing zones. Typically the 1 class is the least expensive hide, then the prices escalate to Class 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.

    Pricing is determined by a number of factors, not the least of which is where the leather originates. European hides are the most expensive, partly because of th Euro's strength against the US Dollar and also due to the fact that the best leathers come out of that region. You'd think that a cow is a cow, but in Europe they don't use barbed wire and they have few biting insects, so the hides are remarkably defect free and can command top dollar.

    At the bottom of the pricing category are FINISHED leathers. While still full top grain, they have numerous flaws that must be corrected in the tanning process to make them appealing. Finished leathers have improved remarkably in the past 10 years or so. Before that, they were rough and scratchy, but nowdays many of them are reasonably sofa and supple.

    ANILINE Dyes will be mid to upper price tiers. The hide needs less 'working' so it can be vat dyed rather than sprayed with pigment. Softer and more supple is what the higher price bracket buys you.

    In premium sofas as an example, you can generally expect a $ 250 - $ 300 step per grade up. A $ 1,995 sofa in Grade 1 will be $ 2,295 in Grade 2, $ 2,495 in Grade 3, $ 2, 750 in Grade 4, and $ 3,050 in Grade 4, etc.

    Higher costs does not buy you added durability. In fact, less expensive, finished hides are the champs are repelling most everything that comes in contact with them.

    When buying hides, think about your lifestyle and how you are going to use this piece day in and day out for the next 20 years. Don't be afraid to buy in the upper grades, they're quite spectacular and amortized over the life of the piece cost just a few dollars per year over less pricey leathers.

    Duane

  2. #2
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    Default H&M City Sofa

    I just purchased H&H's city sofa. Although I've heard they dropped the married cover, mine is still that. Does it matter in the long run?
    The place I bought it from (cheshire CT) only has two H&M sofa on the floor and I bought the City sofa cavalier henna. I wasn't giving much choices and the only thing I was able to choose was the color.
    I would like to know what grade of leather is city sofa? The cushion was foam wrapped in down. Is that the standard or the down cushion Duane says not to get? This is my first leather sofa purchase and I'm very excited but also scared that I jumped in too quick without asking too much questions!

    Jenny

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by menghsiu View Post
    I just purchased H&H's city sofa. Although I've heard they dropped the married cover, mine is still that. Does it matter in the long run?

    Absolutely not. H&M has not dropped the married cover program and its a vital part of their sales. What they did do is rename it and call it Town & Country. The savings are considerable, though you only have limited leather and color choices.


    The place I bought it from (cheshire CT) only has two H&M sofa on the floor and I bought the City sofa cavalier henna. I wasn't giving much choices and the only thing I was able to choose was the color.

    You can buy a City in nearly 500 different hides, but at the Town and Country price point (married cover) you only get to select from Cavalier Henna or Cavalier Mocha.

    I would like to know what grade of leather is city sofa?

    Cavalier is a Grade II hide, with a Servicabilty index of 2.

    The cushion was foam wrapped in down. Is that the standard or the down cushion Duane says not to get?

    That's a standard cushion on the T&C Program, not the Ultra Down.

    This is my first leather sofa purchase and I'm very excited but also scared that I jumped in too quick without asking too much questions!

    Don't be. You're good to go! Remember to clean it periodically and to keep your receipt. With regular use you will need new cushions in about 10 years, and H&M sends out free replacements to the original owners when that time comes (current policy).

    Jenny
    Enjoy your new sofa!
    Duane Collie
    Please Ask ALL Questions in the Forum
    Private Messages (PM's) are for Sample Requests and Placing Orders
    No written Quotes are given on Hancock& Moore, Jessica Charles or Councill - you must call the store for pricing.

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    Default

    Thank you Duane for the reply! I love you so much!!!! I wish you are near me so I can buy all my furnitures from you!

    Jenny

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    Default

    The cushion was foam wrapped in down. Is that the standard or the down cushion Duane says not to get?

    That's a standard cushion on the T&C Program, not the Ultra Down.

    Oh, so the standard cushion is not Quallex (sp), but a foam cushion wrapped in down?? I did not konw there was any down in teh standard cushion. Please confirm, Duane. Thanks!

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    Default

    The standard cushion across MOST the line (but not all) is Dupont Qualex with a down/muslim ticking (wrapping). Cushions can be very confusing with the various options. In most cases the best cushion in my opinion is the standard cushion. They put a lot of time into development at H&M on cushions/springs for the best comfort.

    One thing to think carefully on is upgrading the back cushion to Ultra Down. Remember that gravity is not your friend with down cushions of any kind and over time the material will shift to the low part of the cushion.
    Duane Collie
    Please Ask ALL Questions in the Forum
    Private Messages (PM's) are for Sample Requests and Placing Orders
    No written Quotes are given on Hancock& Moore, Jessica Charles or Councill - you must call the store for pricing.

  7. #7
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    Default What about the leathers within a class?

    Duane, thanks for taking the time to explain about the different classes of leather. I have another question though. It seems that in each class of leather there are "Collections" or "Series" of leathers. Like in class 2 we have Cavalier/Document/ etc..., in class 3 we Equestrian/Antelope/etc..., in class 4we have Capri/Quintesscence/etc... (I don't know any class 5 leathers) What's the difference between the "Collections" of leathers within each class? Does one Collection offer colours not available in another? Aren't the quality of the hides the same within a class?

    Also, are each "Collection" unique to a class? Or can they appear in different classes? Like, is there a class 3/4/5 Document leather?

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Odd I/O View Post
    Duane, thanks for taking the time to explain about the different classes of leather. I have another question though. It seems that in each class of leather there are "Collections" or "Series" of leathers. Like in class 2 we have Cavalier/Document/ etc..., in class 3 we Equestrian/Antelope/etc..., in class 4we have Capri/Quintesscence/etc... (I don't know any class 5 leathers) What's the difference between the "Collections" of leathers within each class? Does one Collection offer colours not available in another? Aren't the quality of the hides the same within a class?

    Also, are each "Collection" unique to a class? Or can they appear in different classes? Like, is there a class 3/4/5 Document leather?
    In Hancock and Moore, as well as other companies, the Class of Leather is really nothing more than a pricing grade. It's all based on what the manufacturer has to pay for that particular hide grouping. Its not indicative of quality of the hide per se, though more expensive hides usually are finer.

    Colorways within a series can and will vary within a grade. For example, in Class 2 leathers there is a Weston Moss (semi-aniline German leather) and a Document Moss (Finished Chinese leather). Both have the same price grade, but are totally different leathers and colors. Whats going on in Document has nothing to do with the Weston line at all, for exanple.

    All leathers within a serices Grade will be the same (Document will always be a Grade 2 leather, regardless of color for example).
    Duane Collie
    Please Ask ALL Questions in the Forum
    Private Messages (PM's) are for Sample Requests and Placing Orders
    No written Quotes are given on Hancock& Moore, Jessica Charles or Councill - you must call the store for pricing.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Thanks for the reply Duane. What do you mean by colourway? Do you mean a particular colour within a particular series (e.g.- Document/Cavalier/etc...)?

    If the pricing structure doesn't necessarily correlate with quality are there any hidden values/gems within a series/class? Are there any Class 2 hides that are Class 3 in quality or any Class 3 hides that are Class 4 in quality?

    Also, does Hancock and Moore offer other types of leather other than cowhide, like lambskin, etc...?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odd I/O View Post
    Thanks for the reply Duane. What do you mean by colourway? Do you mean a particular colour within a particular series (e.g.- Document/Cavalier/etc...)?

    Yes, in each hide grouping there are colors within that series. For example, the leather Document has 33 colorways to choose from. The leather Kipling has 5 colors (or colorways).

    If the pricing structure doesn't necessarily correlate with quality are there any hidden values/gems within a series/class? Are there any Class 2 hides that are Class 3 in quality or any Class 3 hides that are Class 4 in quality?

    Pricing is determined not only by leather quality, but also by currency exchange rates which currently make any hides from Europe more expensive than from other parts of the world.

    My favorite class 2 hide is Kipling. It looks and feels like a Class 3 or 4. When you get into the class 3's and 4's the line is harder to draw because special effects start coming into play.


    Also, does Hancock and Moore offer other types of leather other than cowhide, like lambskin, etc...?
    Oh yes! They have Lambskins (not high durability), Deerskin (ditto, a bit more fragile but smooth as butter/soft as silk), real Bison, real Buffalo, Big Horn Sheep, Ostrich and Sheepskin. There's a Croc hide and Cayman in there as well but I think its manipulated cowhide rather than real Crocodile/Cayman. I'd have to make a phone call to be sure.




    Duane Collie
    Please Ask ALL Questions in the Forum
    Private Messages (PM's) are for Sample Requests and Placing Orders
    No written Quotes are given on Hancock& Moore, Jessica Charles or Councill - you must call the store for pricing.

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