"New" Governor Winthrop Desk

[organic_smallhome]

Although I've since learned, in my research, that Governor Winthrop never really owned a desk like this. Anyway, it's a great size and has given us more storage (which we desperately need in this little house), and is solid cherry (mfg. by Maddox). Probably, I'm guessing, about 50 years old. I was thrilled to find it, since I've only ever seen these desks in mahogany and maple. Also, I like the flat front (as opposed to the usual serpentine) and the feet (not too ornate). It cost $250, which I'm thinking is a pretty good deal, considering the shape it's in. In any case, thought I'd post just for fun.

[drcollie]

Anything that has all the feet on it and the drawers slide for $ 250 is a fantastic deal, truly it is. I'm a huge fan of period slant lid desks (they can be quite costly). Yours has a number of design faux pauxs in execution that I would point out to you if you had paid $ 2,500 for the piece, but not at $ 250!

[Riddle]

Organic, I swear I should hire you to shop for me! Nice find!

[organic_smallhome]

Anything that has all the feet on it and the drawers slide for $ 250 is a fantastic deal, truly it is. I'm a huge fan of period slant lid desks (they can be quite costly). Yours has a number of design faux pauxs in execution that I would point out to you if you had paid $ 2,500 for the piece, but not at $ 250!

Thanks, Duane. Please tell me the faux pauxs, so I can learn something!

[organic_smallhome]

Thanks, Riddle. What're you looking for?

[drcollie]

Thanks, Duane. Please tell me the faux pauxs, so I can learn something!

OK, lets assume for the sake or argument that this was a 'valuable antique' you were considering buying for several thousand dollars. Just looking at the outside (can't see the gallery or the drawers pulled out and flipped) here's why I would advise you NOT to pay lots of money for this desk <G>

* The most glaring fault is the glued up desk lid, and a border of wood containing the glue-ups. You really want a 1-board desk lid (no glue seams) and battens (breadboards) on the ends of the piece to control warpage.

* Sides are made of glue ups, with sap wood used on the left panel as you face the piece. Sapwood is not acceptable in quality cherry pieces (shows as a ivory streak)

* Brasses are cheap cast, not stamped and filed.

* Drawers are all the same size, not graduated.

* Ogee foot is too weak, not bold enough.

Here's a beauty...this is what you really want, great bandy leg on it, too.

http://www.aaawt.com/web_images/393-...d%20Desk_2.jpg

[organic_smallhome]

Thanks, Duane. Yes, that is exactly what I really want (the link you provided). But unless somebody in Hollywood buys the screen rights for the book I'm now researching, it will never happen. But just for kicks, what would a piece like that actually cost?

My dining room table has sapwood in the cherry, as well. I actually kind of like the look--for informal settings. The glue-ups don't bother me (but could you define "glue-ups," just so I'm clear on the definition?). I would never have guessed about the brasses--I am happy that they aren't shiny gold brass, at least. I also think that the non-graduated drawers make the piece look a little bulky. The ogee foot is okay. I kind of didn't want the bulky feet, but I can see how the feet on this desk might look too small for it.

When you get a chance, could you post photos comparing cast brasses v. stamped and filed? I'd love to learn a little bit more about that.

I learn so much on this forum.

[organic_smallhome]

Also, what can you tell us about this piece, Duane? There's something about the feet that bothers me, but I can't put a finger on it.

[drcollie]

Thanks, Duane. Yes, that is exactly what I really want (the link you provided). But unless somebody in Hollywood buys the screen rights for the book I'm now researching, it will never happen. But just for kicks, what would a piece like that actually cost?

My dining room table has sapwood in the cherry, as well. I actually kind of like the look--for informal settings. The glue-ups don't bother me (but could you define "glue-ups," just so I'm clear on the definition?). I would never have guessed about the brasses--I am happy that they aren't shiny gold brass, at least. I also think that the non-graduated drawers make the piece look a little bulky. The ogee foot is okay. I kind of didn't want the bulky feet, but I can see how the feet on this desk might look too small for it.

When you get a chance, could you post photos comparing cast brasses v. stamped and filed? I'd love to learn a little bit more about that.

I learn so much on this forum.

It's difficult to put a price on that desk in the photo, because one would have to see the gallery (inside of the desk). A good gallery can make or break a desk. The Bandy leg makes it rare, and probably identifies it as a Boston/Portsmouth/Manchester piece from around 1780 or so. Plus, one has to go over it to see repairs and faults. With a great gallery and in the original finish, with no replacements.. $ 100K is not out of line. But if the interior is simple, the feet have been added on, and a poor refinish, that can be worth as little as $ 10K. That's a lot of spread! Slant lid desks were very rare. Most often, many of the "Antiques" you see were not built as slant lid desks, but as Secretaries with a top case. When estates were settled, it was very common for one child to take the base of the Secretary, remove the band mold and make it a Slant Lid Desk. The Top of the Secretary went to another child and was then molded on the bottom and used as a hanging cupboard. So when shopping period slant lid desks that affects value as well - was it an original or the bottom half of a Secretary Desk?

A 'glue-up' is a panel made up from several narrow boards. Your desk has six boards in the top (and should have just one). Narrow boards are inexpensive but stable, wide boards cost a lot and require movement control skills when building. The Ogee foot on your piece is actually not too far off the form, just needs to be a bit more aggressive.

"cast" brasses are inexpensive and bulky looking. Most are not even made of real brass, but pot metal and colored gold. Stamped brasses are much finer and thinner, and the best ones have hand-filed edges. Sometimes just replacing the brasses with good ones can really improve the way a piece looks (match your bore size). Here's the three best USA-made brass sources (Ball and Ball is the most costly), though the very best brass comes out of England and costs even more, up to $ 25 per pull:

http://www.dcmitchell.org/

http://www.horton-brasses.com/

http://www.ballandball-us.com/

[drcollie]

Also, what can you tell us about this piece, Duane? There's something about the feet that bothers me, but I can't put a finger on it.

That's a QA Desk-on-Frame, most likely a reproduction that is almost 'there' but not quite. Brasses are too large on it (see how the top drawer brass looks crammed on the drawer front?), and the drawers was usually never on the bottom in the frame (that's what is bothering you visually on the piece). Originals were in 2 pieces, allowing for easy transport. The desk lid should have battens on the end to prevent warping of the lid. Again. the gallery is important, but judging from the exterior design flaws I'd not expect much on the inside. Sometimes these were called 'Ladies Desks'.

Here's the correct form:

http://www.hapmoore.com/images/may03/qa-desk.jpg

I am always amused at cabinentmakers making 'period furniture' who don't bother to go to a museum like the MET in NYC to see what the correct form actually is.