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Thread: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

  1. #1
    normie Guest

    Default Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    I am ordering the Hancock and Moore Ashmore Chair and ottoman in Columbia Coffee. I love the leather but am now becoming anxious that because it is Grade 1 it will be inferior and not wear well. I also liked the Antelope series but it is significantly more expensive. My husband and I are retired with our family and friends as visitors. Should I stay with the Columbia? Thanks so much.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    There's a lot of confusion on leather grades, you're not alone. The important thing to remember is that a leather grade is a PRICE grade, not a quality grade. Its what H&M (or any other manufacturer for that matter) has to pay for the hide. A number of factors come in play to determine the price from a tannery.

    * Currency valuations
    * Labor costs
    * Shipping costs
    * Fineness of the Crust (leather before its tanned)

    With Columbia, you have a South American leather vs. Antelope which comes out of Germany. Right off the bat, before we even look at the quality of the Crust, the first three items are higher coming from Germany than Argentina. Just the Euro vs the US Dollar can have a large impact of wholesale costs.

    The general rule of thumb is that less expensive leathers are more durable. Finer leathers are more luxurious. Why? Because the less expensive hides have to be more processed to cover the leather flaws, and as such have more chemicals and finish applied. Finer, softer hides are in a more natural state, and in many cases more prone to absorb a spill or two.

    Between Colombia and Antelope, I would expect the same lifespan of the hide. And what determines the lifespan is how often you keep your leather clean and conditioned....and out of direct sunlight. You can make that hide last 40 years, or use it up in as little as 7 years. The Antelope is going to present nicer (and it should for the extra cost) and feel richer, but only you can decide if that's worth the extra cost.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
    normie Guest

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    Thank you for your help.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Lakewood Ranch, Florida
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    normie...

    My wife and I have owned H&M furniture with both Antelope and Columbia leathers. The Antelope has a slightly richer feel and look and seems to be a bit thicker hide, but both are really great leathers. If price is a consideration then Columbia offers a better value. If Antelope is really your favorite then go that way. If it's a toss-up then go with the value. Both leathers will provide excellent covers for you H&M furniture.

    Larry

  5. #5
    Maxie-ann Guest

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    Hi Duane,
    I too like the Columbia leathers, could not find a sample today on the acorn Columbia leather. I did see the blackcherry in the Columbia hide, and liked it alot. That is a possibility for a recliner or tilt back. The sofa I was thinking maybe the Columbia Molasses, what do you think of this color?? Could not find Columbia Molasses on the site unless I missed it. Anyway my question is on the surface grain, it seems the higher then number the more durable it appears as far as scratches??? Or is it that it just does not show as much due to the grain???
    Maxie-ann
    Last edited by Maxie-ann; 11-24-2010 at 09:15 PM.

  6. #6
    Maxie-ann Guest

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    Hi Duane,
    Sorry it's me again, forgot to ask, the Columbia hide is it thin and will it stretch more than other hides?? I don't like too much of that wrinkle, puddling look. I realize some of it will happen, but was wondering if certain hides do it more. thanks again for your time.
    Maxie-ann

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    Columbia "acorn" ? I think that was a new color rolled out at the Fall Market if I'm not mistaken. Its not been swatched yet to any dealer. Colombia Molasses is a nice leather for a GR 1 price point, a good - solid color. Higher Surface Grain really doesn't make things more durable, just more 'pebbly'. Columbia is overall pretty smooth, however.

    Hide thickness varies throughout a hide, depending on where the sample is cut. I don't seem to have any customer complaints whatsoever on Columbia and I sell quite a bit of it. I think that weight of the people using the furniture, and frequency of use probably has more to do with puddling and leather stretch than the hides themselves for the most part.

    Hope that helps!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #8
    Maxie-ann Guest

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    yes it does, and you are right I found the Columbia acorn on your site of the batch of new samples. I did not realize how new it was. Now the next question I read somewhere on the Gardenweb site something like real leather really is class II or higher. Can you explain why that maybe??? thanks again, you are really great and very helpful
    Maxie-ann

  9. #9
    Maxie-ann Guest

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    Oh by the way Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Columbia leather

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxie-ann View Post
    yes it does, and you are right I found the Columbia acorn on your site of the batch of new samples. I did not realize how new it was. Now the next question I read somewhere on the Gardenweb site something like real leather really is class II or higher. Can you explain why that maybe??? thanks again, you are really great and very helpful
    Maxie-ann
    That's crazy! All leather is 'real leather' if its from top grain hides and not made from the splits or that awful Bycast garbage that some places use. And in that definition of leather you really want to buy furniture that uses Grade A Steer Hides, not lower grades and definitely not cowhide (female cow). Cowhide stretches too much with use, but its going to be difficult to determine what is steer hide and what is cow hide as that information is generally not available at the dealer level. Hancock and Moore for example, only uses Grade A Steer Hide and that's why their pieces look better over time with less puddling than many others. You can be pretty sure that those $ 799 leather sofas imported from the Pacific Rim countries are cowhide, however.

    Leather Classes or Leather Grades are not quality grades, they're pricing grades. That's important to keep that in mind. Lots of factors come into pricing hides at the wholesale (tannery) level. Currency valuations vs the dollar, cost of transport, workers wages, pollution controls in a country, etc...all factor in. Just because a leather is more expensive does not necessarily mean its a better hide. For example, almost all the leathers coming out of Europe will be a GR 3 or GR 4 in H&M. The Euro is strong against the dollar, air freight costs to the US are high, worker are MUCH higher paid in Europe and as first-world countries they have strict pollution controls. Contrast that against a Chinese leather - their currency is tied to the US Dollar, everything is put on a container ship instead of air-freighted, the average tannery worker makes .75 an hour vs $ 20 an hour in Germany, and China is not real concerned about pollution control. The result? Less costly hides at the wholesale level.

    Now, having said that, those Euro hides as a whole tend to be VERY nice, the finest in the world. They don't use barbed wire so there are few scars on the leather, and they don't have a large biting bug problem either, so the hides tend to be very clear and defect free. China doesn't have a cattle industry, so what they mostly use are US hides (crusts) that are shipped over there, tanned - and sent back.

    In the trade, we leather affectionados refer to 'real leather' as being pure anilines and we pretty much turn up our noses at protected leathers! We've worked around it so many years that 'unprotected' leathers don't spook us because we know that they rarely ever get stained or ruined, and thats what most of us in the business will buy for our own homes. But we understand that most retail customers are hesitant to buy anything but protected leathers for fear of damaging their investment.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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