Looking for narrowish reclining loveseat

[drcollie]

But we have narrowed our search to a few possiblities:

Caress Burgundy - we love the feel and can live with the warm look of this chocolate-cordially hide.

Caress is a nice hide, but it does carry a more contemporary look to it. That is, it does not have any highlights (special effects), so its mostly a monotone color throughout the cover. I find most folks want some high-low contrast and you won't get that with Caress. Durability is good.

Quintessence Saddle - we love the feel and the look, but we are concerned whether the inevitable patina on this lighter hide will add richness or just look worn. What does daily use look like on this after 15 years?

Quintessence Bark - love the feel and like the lush walnut look alot. I'm guessing the patina here would be much more subtle since we would be starting with a darker leather to begin with.

Neither Quintessence is going to work satisfactorily on high-use motion with kids/dog. Its too fragile for that environment and its also an expensive class IV hide. You should take a pass on these hides, though they are beautiful! If you really do want this category leather, look at Capri, which comes from the same tannery in Germany but has a protective top coat finish (it will be labeled as unprotected, however). Capri is basically Quintessence with some resistance to spills and stains. Still a Class IV hide.

and believe it or not, the Guss Chocolate fabric - it's sort of a poor substitute for Nabuk, but we want to make sure to explore all of the possibilities.

I don't like fabric of any kind on motion furniture because it wears too quickly in comparison to leather. The problem is the cost of re-upholstery! Assume 7 years lifespan on a recliner loveseat and you'll be looking at about 15 yards fabric to recover @ 40 per yard, plus a $ 500 labor charge. $ 1,100 or so to make it work for you. Leather should last 4x longer, so it will be far more cost effective in the long run.

Take a look at Kipling, Equestrian, Auburn and Antelope in the leather. Rich feeling leathers, and they are durable as well. If you need samples, just PM me and give me your mailing address and I'll get some out to you.

[dwainw]

Now that's the kind of info that everyone values on this forum. Clear, concise and well supported. Thanks!

I remember looking at the Antelope and Auburn lines. We had eliminated them from the running because we were looking for low sheen and (maybe just perceived) breathability. We were amazed, actually, that the Caress matched pretty well with the Quintessence by these limited standards. My wife initially was not very interested in leather at all for this piece because she didn't expect to find anything that would meet her standards in this regard.

After sitting on the only H&M piece we have found in person, an Austin Cavalier Oxblood (I'm assuming a married cover), she found it comfortable, but didn't like what she described as the 'slick' feel of the leather. But she ended up being impressed with the Caress and Quintessence. She doesn't mind the uniformity of the Caress, but I do miss the character of the analines. In the end I guess Caress is a good compromise for both of us...

I will say that Antelope was the last of the other lines that she eliminated. It was close, and a little swatch can only tell you so much. Can you refer us to a picture of a piece covered in Antelope, perhaps in the brown tones? Do you have anything in stock in any of these lines that we could check out if we made a trip in to your store?

And are the Kipling or Equestrian lines particularly shiny or slick, relatively speaking?

[drcollie]

I remember looking at the Antelope and Auburn lines. We had eliminated them from the running because we were looking for low sheen and (maybe just perceived) breathability.

Dwain, Sounds like you are looking for a flatter sheen leather. Most hides tend to have the glossier hides which are actually protective topcoats in most cases. As you go into flatter sheens, the serviceability rating tends to drop a notch.

Leather does not have any breathability per se, so you can pretty much dismiss that as a factor in decision making.

We were amazed, actually, that the Caress matched pretty well with the Quintessence by these limited standards.

Caress is decent! But as I said I think in a prior post its a monochromatic leather which means not high's or lows in contrast. I place it mostly on modern and contemporary pieces for the most part. I just think that Quintessence is going to not only be $$$$ to buy, but doesn't offer enough stain and oil repellency for use in a motion recliner with kids/tv room, etc. I'd hate to see you spend that kind of money on a piece and not like the way it looks in 10 years.

After sitting on the only H&M piece we have found in person, an Austin Cavalier Oxblood (I'm assuming a married cover), she found it comfortable, but didn't like what she described as the 'slick' feel of the leather.

Yes, that's what that was. Cavalier Oxblood does have a pretty slick topcoat on it, but its designed to slough off most everything that hits it as well. Its a good hide to use for popcorn eaters on Game Day.

I will say that Antelope was the last of the other lines that she eliminated. It was close, and a little swatch can only tell you so much. Can you refer us to a picture of a piece covered in Antelope, perhaps in the brown tones?

Here we have some photos we can play with on the H&M Web Site at www.hancockandmoore.com, just key these numbers in on the SEARCH box:

These are all in Antelope:
# 1319 (Harness)
# 1722 (Harness)
# 1958 (Claret)

These are in Caress:
# 2038NB (Dark Blue)
# 2807ST (Terracotta)

These are in Equestrian (also a good choice):
# 4196 (Truffle)
# 1776ST (Saddle)

Do you have anything in stock in any of these lines that we could check out if we made a trip in to your store?

I have three pieces on the floor in Capri,and one in Kipling and that's as close to those that I come. Even Capri is probably not the best choice, its $$$$ and still subject to some of the problems as Quintessence in heavy use. I think Capri works well in homes with older adults and with pets that stay off the furniture. With kids and dogs, I just think you might want something a bit more 'wipe and go'.

And are the Kipling or Equestrian lines particularly shiny or slick, relatively speaking?

Kipling is, but Equestrian not so much. Its fairly low sheen. I do like Equestrian for the Austin Series because the hide is thicker and has a beefier feel to it, yet remains supple and luxurious without a 'top-coat' feel yet it still is a wipe and go. Antelope is similar.

Auburn is on the way out, and there are new hides coming in first the year as well, so selections will be changing. New samples are not here yet, hopefully we will get them next month.

Hope that helps narrow it down.

[dwainw]

One quick question, Duane. Is the picture below, from the H&M website, a piece done in Capri Harness? I've been looking for a picture of Capri Butternut on a non-tufted piece to get a better idea of the mottling in that leather on a relatively smooth piece like the Monterey series. I haven't found anything yet, but this looks an awful lot like what I envision Capri looking like, just in a different colorway. Do you know of any Capri Butternut on the H&M site?

As always, thanks so much for your help.

[drcollie]

Dwain,

Go with the Caress, it will serve you better. Quintessence is plush, but its so oil-sensitive that with kids/dog and the piece being motion (TV, Movies) that I'd have real concerns about ruining the leather with an oil-based spill. Skip all fabrics on any kind on a motion piece, they simply friction-wear too quickly and you will be looking at a $ 800 to $ 1,000 re upholstery job in 6 to 8 years of use. Save the Quintessence for a library or living room piece, where you can enjoy it as an adult and in a lower-use environment. Did you look at Antelope? That's the nicest of the protected leathers in the line....a grade 3 hide and from Germany.

[dwainw]

Actually we have canned Quintessence for exactly the reasons you mention. After seeing the Quintessence soak up baby oil in your store, that is when we shifted to Capri for its extra resistance. My wife and I are currently riding a teeter-totter. Initially she was against the Caress for its bland look and lack of just the right color (how many colors does Caress come in?). She preferred the richness of Capri, particularly Butternut, and wasn't so concerned about extra resistance to staining that Caress offers (the Capri sample you sent me has proven quite resistant). It took a lot to convince me that Capri's virtues would justify the extra grand or so that it would cost, but she finally succeeded. Seemingly at that very moment her practical side kicked in, and now she leans toward the Caress. And I'm left on the Capri side. I was just wondering if that was a Capri hide in the picture above, or whether you knew of any other H&M photos of Capri Butternut.

[drcollie]

Yes, Capri is more durable than Quintessence, and they're sister hides coming from the same southern Germany tannery. Its just that Capri has a bit more topcoating on it, and can sluff off some of those oily spills. There's a good photo of a H&M Chesterfield in Capri Butternut on the PHOTO RESOURCES part of the forum under LEATHER. Did you see that one, Dwain?

Caress is a good hide, but it doesn't have a lot of visual interest as it tends to be uniform in color throughout and no high/low tones. Its still going to be more wipe and go than Capri, however. Caress has 37 colorways in the group, lots to choose from.

Capri is going to have the *WOW* factor to it, Caress is going to have the durability edge.

[dwainw]

Hi, Duane. We've finally made a decision.

We have decided to order the Monterey series dual reclining loveseat in Caress Burgundy. The model numbers for the system that you wrote down for us when we visited your store are 2 x 2200A armless recliners, 1 x 2200LAFA rolled arm and 1 x 2200 RAFA. The price you quoted then was 4424, so with the Feb sale I figure 4203.

One customization we would to request is to delete the nails on the headrest and sides of the back, and then using 'S' nails around the bottom and up the front of the arms as usual. I can post a picture showing which nails we would like to delete if that would help. I will call you later this morning about a deposit.

Thank you very much for your guidance through this process. You have been very patient and insightful.

[drcollie]

Thanks Dwain! Good talking with you on the phone today...got you all ordered up today and now you have to promise that you'll photo your new H&M Monterey series when its set up so we can see what it looks like. I'm expecting it to be a handsome piece.

[dwainw]

Hi, Duane. I just thought I would share the results of the testing I did on the samples you sent to me. These results helped us really nail down the decision to use Caress leather on our new loveseat. With two busy girls and evenutally a small dog in the house, practical won out over style.

Here is a photo of Capri Butternut (top) and Caress Burgundy (bottom) with some everyday liquids applied. I placed a small drop of each on both leathers and planned on letting them sit for a while. When we tried baby oil on Capri in your store it was only for a minute or so, and I was impressed that there was very little penetration. I quickly found out here that H&M considers this leather 'unprotected' because it's slight protection layer will not handle exposure of even a few minutes. By the ten minute mark, I decided to wipe the liquids off of the Capri because most had already penetrated the surface. Notice the vinegar did not penetrate.