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Thread: Shipping to Canada

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Alexandria VA
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    15,883

    Default Shipping to Canada

    I have a number of Canadian customers off the forum and shipping into Canada really hasn't worked out very well, so effective today's date I am inclined to strongly suggest that folks in Canada buy locally where they live. I understand the prices are considerably less buying in the States even with shipping and taxes figured in, but I don't have an effective and affordable way to bring goods back once they cross the border and that compromises my customer service capability.

    There are no blanket wrap services that run into Canada, so everything has to go by truck. That means everything must to to an address with a loading dock in the carton or else it has to divert to a moving and storage company for unpacking and home delivery. If there is a mistake in an order, or a warranty issue, the pieces have to go back in their boxes (which were cut up and tossed in the garbage when unpacked) and then have to deal with customs to and from on returns and fixes. The customers get upset as the pieces have to be re-packed somehow and shipping costs / border paperwork is too high. Its a massive headache and quite frankly not worth it.

    I never like to turn away an order, but I can't service you in Canada to my standards and to a level of satisfaction you would expect. I'm not sure any dealer from the USA can for that matter - in spite of what they may tell you.

    So effective April 24, 2012 if you wish to order from my store and we are shipping outside the USA, then any customer service issues will be limited to 1) Sending touch up that you can apply yourself 2) repairs that can done locally by a shop of your choosing for a fee (not to exceed a set amount, depending on the repair). Warranty / return / mis-order issues WILL NOT include free freight to and from the maker in the USA, that will be done at customer expense unless its agreed to be paid for by the maker after inspection.

    I encourage those in Canada to buy from a Canadian store where they can get a higher level of customer service, even if you do have to pay more for the goods.
    Last edited by drcollie; 05-09-2012 at 07:28 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  2. #2
    Rafree1 Guest

    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    My local H and M dealer store starts their Hancock and Moore pricing at seven thousand dollars for the lowest price with any grade two leather plus tax and they go up from there. So, they can kind of go pound salt...lol. I won't be paying that high of a mark up for anybody. Especially when the Canadian dollar has been at par nearly for two years. There's one other store four hours from me that has fair and reasonable prices but, we'd have to go get the sofa. That's not really that big of a deal so it is one option.

    I know getting things across that border, especially large items is a huge pita!! I think your terms are reasonable, Duane. What about replacement cushions? Could I for example just deal directly if I needed them with H and M at some point?

    Got my samples today! BOY! I encourage all to order those samples...a couple of them look nothing like they did online. Thanks for such a quick delivery on those!

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    Getting cushion replacements sent is easy enough to do. The issue with ships into Canada is if there is a warranty or mis-order problem with the piece. In the states, I use Sun Delivery Service and they will pickup for me, but I can't get the pieces out of Canada and back to the States efficiently or affordably as I only have a conventional trucking line to go into Canada.

    For example, lets say we have a sofa going into Canada and because most customers don't want a curbside drop I have to deliver to a Moving and Storage company who unpack the piece and take it into the customer's home for an additional fee. So its unpacked, the cartons cut up in the unpacking process, the pieces taken inside and then....uh-oh, this wasn't the right finish on the legs on the sofa. Customer ordered Cherry and I mistakenly put the standard Mahogany Distress on the legs. Customer demands the sofa go back and the correct finish put on or a new replacement sofa sent in lieu of an allowance to keep it 'as is'. That requires it going back to the maker in some manner.

    In the states, I would call Sun Delivery and have them pick it up and return to the factory. Its my mistake in the ordering, so I have to pay Sun appx. $ 300 to get the sofa, and then another $ 300 to re-deliver when fixed. That's a $ 600 outlay. OK, I can live with that on a $ 3,500 sofa. Painful, but well...stuff happens and i have to take care of it.

    in Canada, I'm totally hammered because the furniture has to be repacked into boxes and the original containers were destroyed. So the moving and storage company has to go in and get it ($ 200) repack it ( $ 200) it has to be re-shipped back to North Carolina on the truck line ($ 350), then when corrected $ 350 back to Canada, then another $ 200 to the Moving and Storage company to take back out to the home plus the customs hassle, and that comes to $ 1,300 on that $ 3,500 sofa. Well past double the cost to recover the item.

    I've had a lot of difficulty in ships into Canada, seems like 3 out of 4 have problems of some sort. Examples: A) I have customers freak out on me because of the Canadian taxes on their orders. I get angry complaints that they are excessive and want me to pay a portion of the taxes even though I make it clear that I do not know what the final taxes, duties and brokerage fees will be. I have no control what the Canadian Government is going to charge and have no desire or intent to learn the tax laws/fees as I don't seek out Canadian customers in the normal course of business. B) Because I don't have a blanket wrap service (white glove) into Canada, some customers elect to have the truck do a curbside drop to their house. They damage the furniture moving it into their house then claim it came that way out of the box. When you've been doing this as long as I have its pretty easy to tell moving damage from factory defects. C) Canadians tend to demand full piece replacements for simple fixes that can be done locally. I don't know why that is - but fixes seem to be unacceptable as a rule. I won't send a new sofa into Canada and pickup the existing one if a bun foot has a poor finish on it, when I can ship a $ 20 bun foot and with three screws and 5 minutes worth of work its all taken care of.

    Its really not fair to my Canadian customers to have to impose these restrictions, but its a simple matter of business risk/reward. I have too much exposure shipping into Canada and am unwilling to have that exposure any longer. I know my prices are quite a bit less than the stores in Canada, even after paying those high taxes to bring in from the states. If you're willing to accept limited recourse in the event of a problem, then I will still ship into Canada, but be aware that you will have more rights of return buying locally in-country.

    And yes - you should never buy leather based on photos when samples are easy to get to you, there always is a difference between photos and the real thing.
    Last edited by drcollie; 04-26-2012 at 01:52 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  4. #4
    Rafree1 Guest

    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    Duane, that's REALLY rotten if someone expected you to have anything to do with taxes owed on furniture items. Everyone here knows full well they will be charged HST on those items and it's very plain how much it is up front. Duties and taxes are always the customers responsibility. It kind of sounds like someone being utterly unreasonable to me. Nothing else they buy and ship up is going to be HST free unless it's a small gift at Christmas time and c'mon! I know people know this, it's a topic of frequent conversation here. Why would they think YOU should have anything to do with that. People like that really tick me off since they are only making things harder for others when they want to buy from the U.S. Anyone can sit down with a piece of paper well ahead of time add the thirteen percent tax on top of what they paid you because at the border that's what it IS going to be. Everyone in Ontario knows that full well. Sounds like someone trying to pull a fast one.

    Also, the total replacement thing on a leg for a sofa? It's sad that there is such a level of unreasonable people. I simply do not understand that. I believe you, it's likely happened but, come ON people. Also, damaging furniture and saying it came that way?

    Damn! I'm ashamed of some people up here. That's disgusting all round. Sorry, you've had so many issues with it. It seems like people would be some grateful to get the deal they are getting when everything up here is RIDICULOUSLY priced and they know it. Even when the dollar stays at par we never benefit in the stores.

    I almost want to laugh at the bun foot thing, since those are so easy to replace...except if that really happens, it's not funny! Sad, sad, sad.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    Unfortunately it does occur and in more than one instance.

    People sometimes have this perception that both the dealer and maker are rolling in money as if the goods themselves only cost pennies and we can easily afford to replace things. I hear "I paid for new - and I demand new, not touched-up". While I agree with that in principal to a large degree, the fact is its economic suicide to send out a new $ 3,500 sofa and spend $ 1,500 to get the current one back just to keep the customer happy, when a scratch can be touched up for $ 75 tops - or less. The profit on that sofa is less than half the cost of the return from a discounter such as myself. The business model of 100 % customer satisfaction simply doesn't work - especially with shipments going out of country. Then there is dealing with Customs to try to tell the a replacement is on the way. Can't do it - we're not Nordstorms with high margins to cover the issues. And customer-damaged furniture never has an easy answer because if one says 'no, you did that in moving it into your home' you have a disagreement over what the truth is - and that's not good for business and reputation.

    Most people today pay with credit cards. If I don't tell them what they want to hear on an issue then they do a chargeback on the card - which is a huge hassle that takes months to resolve and hours of paperwork on the part of the merchant.

    At some point - as a business person - I have to say "its just not worth it" and that's what has happened with ships into Canada. You are correct that unreasonable people have ruined it for the reasonable ones, but that's the way of the world. I don't believe the merchant should 'hold all the cards' in a transaction, but neither should the customer. Things can be worked out in most instances to a customer's satisfaction when folks are reasonable and realize that a $ 3,500 sofa is not ruined when the wrong color feet are on it (and we can fix that with replacements) - mistakes are made from time to time - but going across the border makes it so much more difficult that I prefer to pass on that business.

    I pride myself in being fair to my customers and working hard for them to fairly resolve any issues. Its the cornerstone of my business. But the truth of the matter is if perfection in a purchase is desired, you simply have to buy locally where they can service issues easily. Part of buying long distance to save money on a purchase is realizing that any issue that comes up may not result in full replacement of a piece and some compromise is involved.

    I'll still sell into Canada for some customers who ask me to, but I will be selective in doing so and it has to be acknowledged and agreed upon at time of order that I won't be doing full pickups and returns back into the states in most instances as long as the goods are physically received in good working order. That's a tough policy - but the only way I will agree to sell outside of the USA.
    Last edited by drcollie; 05-09-2012 at 07:30 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  6. #6
    Rafree1 Guest

    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    Where are these people who are SO unhappy with their sofa in Ontario? I'd buy what they claim is so "damaged" lol. Bet nearly all of them kept the sofas.

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    Oh yes, everything was taken care of for them to their satisfaction, no one is left 'hanging out in the wind', I don't do business that way.

    Think of this way. If you buy a new car - and the leather in the front seat of the car has a cut in it, the factory is not sending out a whole new car. They might send out a new seat and have the dealer install it, or call in a repairman to mend the seat if at all possible, but they don't build a fresh car for small faults. Same thing here with sofas/chairs. If its repairable or fixable - that's done with no hassle and no headache. The problem is when customers demand the 'whole new car' then have the payments reversed on the credit card when they're told 'No, we are fixing the seat for you, not building an entire new car.'

    I will make up a Canadian Sales Policy sheet in the next few days.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #8
    Join Date
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    Alexandria VA
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    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    Effective 04/30/12, this is the policy for my store shipping into Canada. I would encourage you to buy locally in Canada for superior customer service and in case any issues arise..

    * 20% deposit can be made via credit card, balance due via wire transfer prior to shipping.

    * Customer is responsible for all shipping charges, delivery options, taxes, brokerage fees, etc. DeJong Trucking is the carrier I would recommend and they will handle all custom clearings. They will deliver to business addresses with a loading dock only, or arrange to take to a moving and storage company of your choice at your expense, who will then unpack and delivery the product to you. You may obtain a quote from DeJong by emailing Lisa Green or contacting DeJong at:

    Lisa Green
    De Jong Enterprises Inc
    PO Box 39, RR #3
    Norwich, ON
    N0J 1P0
    e-mail: lgreen@dejong.com

    519.424.9007 ext 256
    1.800.668.6755
    519.424.9331 (fax)

    * Full manufacturer warranty applies. The Keeping Room in conjunction with the maker of the goods will have final say as to whether a piece is repaired locally or returned to the factory if there is a defect that needs correction. In the event of a return, any shipment costs will be loading dock pickup and delivery only - should you contract with a moving and storage company for in-home delivery, those costs will not be reimbursed under any circumstances. All product must be properly packed for return in the manner in which it was shipped. Customer will be required to pay for outbound shipping back to the factory, and upon inspection if the goods are deemed to be defective then you will be reimbursed for the return cost.
    Last edited by drcollie; 03-06-2015 at 05:47 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  9. #9
    modern1 Guest

    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    I am NYC based retail, i used to have some similar problem shipping to the Canada. What we did:
    1. We build 2 shipping rates tables, one for US customers, one for Canadian customers. Let say for $3,500.00 sofa US customer will pay $300.00 / Canadian customer $450.00.
    2. We found affordable and reliable shipping company, Pit Ohio, they cower mostly Eastern Canada and some times, to get a good quote, we have to schedule the pick up from NJ warehouse BUT they do 9 deliveries out of 10 with no problems at all, no extra packaging, you can look at this http://www.modern1furniture.com/sect...er-p-5465.html heavy, 4 pieces sectional sofa, total weight is about 1000 lb, it usually cost us $350.00 to ship this sofa to East Canada, no extra packaging, and i do not remember any case that this item was damaged on delivery. May be some light damages to the legs but it can be easily fixed by sending replacement legs...

  10. #10
    Rafree1 Guest

    Default Re: Shipping to Canada

    Hi Modern,

    Those are great suggestions but, I can tell you De Jong is wonderful. The high end furniture store here uses them to deliver all their furniture. As far as finding a loading dock to do this, yes it can be tricky. Also there are "push" services I didn't use this time. They give you a U.S. address even for large items and will "push" it across the border for you. I have one located in Ogdensburg, New York. That's not far from me at all and there's another outside of Water town. They have a very good broker system too. Not that super high UPS stuff. I could have gone that way. The U.S. address company would even store for you to come across the border to pick up and I know others' who have used them and been happy with them. However, I would rather use De Jong as I know they move furniture items all the time and really think they know precisely what they are doing. Canadian customers are shopping a lot across the border! For one thing the prices are better but, their dollar is also at par or better meaning they can spend more now. Also, many Canadians would rather buy from the U.S. rather than buying made in China imports. There are over one million Americans up here too who like to support with their shopping dollar their home country. With all of that people have gotten quite adept and crafty at cross border shopping. That paper work is still the pain so you need a good company like De Jong very used to dealing with it and usually then there's no issue at all. You are in a NYC based retail? I can tell you NYC gets a LOT of business from up this way. From where I am I can drive to you in five hours and have done so often. Buy then have shipped to me here.

    I think Duane's issue was people being unreasonable about any issue that came up and wanting to ship a large, heavy item back and forth at HIS cost! That situation makes it bad for everybody all around. If you are going to cross border shop then you've got to be reasonable about things. It's a GREAT advantage both ways for Canadians to be able to shop in the U.S. but, some folks don't seem to be as grateful for the situation as perhaps they could be. 350.00 is very close to what I was quoted so that must be the average. I'm very optimistic that De Jong will do a great job!

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