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Thread: H&M Leather Failure

  1. #21
    Sebec Guest

    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    Hancock and Moore sends out a small booklet with each piece that details leather care and has the signature of every employee who worked on your piece. These are ALWAYS thrown away by the delivery companies and I have been unsuccessful in getting either H&M to attach them to the pieces themselves or any of the blanket wrap companies to keep them with the pieces, and I have spent hours and hours in the quest to do so. So its rare to get that but if you contact H&M they will send you a replacement on in the mail.
    I've got four H&M pieces, one was delivered locally, and the other three were through Duane, delivered by A&O. (one day I'll get around to posting pics on the forum) I had the booklet included with all four. I guess I got lucky.

  2. #22
    Join Date
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    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    Personally if I had a fixed budget and my choices were the Brad Young in a high end leather or the Hancock & Moore in the entry level leather, I'd pick the H&M every time. Why? The frame construction, plain and simple. The components in the build of the H&M are best in the industry. The key is to select the right entry level leather, and that's where a knowledgeable dealer comes in. Folks often think a higher price grade denotes a better leather and I don't necessarily find that to be the case (granted, there is a broad correlation at play there, but its not hard and fast). For example, the maligned Document is price graded 2 when not used as a promotional hide. I'd MUCH rather have Gr 1 Gunner or Columbia to the Document. And even in GR 4 leathers - there is one called Luggage that I'm not a fan of at all. Its slick, crunchy, expensive and has too much paint on it. If paying GR4 price points, get something world class like Arizona, Capri or Quintessence (which I am sitting in as I type this, on my home office chair).
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #23
    leather questioner Guest

    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    I chose Hancock and Moore because of the construction and wrongly assumed that the leather would be as durable as the framework. Another wrong assumption was that while an $8000 is not top of the line, neither is it cheap. It would have been helpful if the salesperson had at least given some input on grades and types of leather. I did my homework on all but the leather. Too bad for me!

    When I called the salesperson about the color rubbing off the cushion cording, she must have known that the leather finish was probably the problem. Later, when I spoke to the customer service rep at Hancock and Moore after writing and mailing photos, she was neither courteous nor helpful, and she had to have been aware of the number of problems with this style and leather.

    Thanks for being the only help I have had thus far. I have found a restorer 150 miles away, but he does not know if he can travel this far. At the very least, there will be an additional $500 just to come and determine if he can help. I will continue to search.

  4. #24
    Ci2Eye Guest

    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    Personally if I had a fixed budget and my choices were the Brad Young in a high end leather or the Hancock & Moore in the entry level leather, I'd pick the H&M every time. Why? The frame construction, plain and simple. The components in the build of the H&M are best in the industry. The key is to select the right entry level leather, and that's where a knowledgeable dealer comes in. Folks often think a higher price grade denotes a better leather and I don't necessarily find that to be the case (granted, there is a broad correlation at play there, but its not hard and fast). For example, the maligned Document is price graded 2 when not used as a promotional hide. I'd MUCH rather have Gr 1 Gunner or Columbia to the Document. And even in GR 4 leathers - there is one called Luggage that I'm not a fan of at all. Its slick, crunchy, expensive and has too much paint on it. If paying GR4 price points, get something world class like Arizona, Capri or Quintessence (which I am sitting in as I type this, on my home office chair).
    I essentially agree if a person is able to select a hide like Columbia which is I believe South American but otherwise I believe I'd rather have a less robust, but still good, frame with a better cover. Part of this rationale stems from the fact that I try to avoid anything Chinese out of concern for their often inadequate concern for the safety of their products.

  5. #25
    Join Date
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    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    Let's see some photos of your sofa, please. Show me the wear areas if you can. Preferably with a real digital camera vs cell phone shots. Did you say you paid $ 8k for a Journey sofa in Document?
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  6. #26
    leather questioner Guest

    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    The full price was $8232. I got it on sale for $3849. What a bargain this has turned out to be.

    Now that I have applied the Leather Solutions products recommended by Hancock Moore, I cannot send you digital pictures of the "after", but I believe the first photos were with a digital cameral.

    I have contacted Leather Medic corporate to see if there is anyone that does not show up on the website locator.

    Thanks for your help!
    P.S. I have been trying unsuccessfully to upload the photos. I get a message every time that says upload failed.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    That's good, I'm glad you didn't pay $ 8K for that sofa. In 2012, that sofa was in Town and Country Program in Document and my 'everyday' order price was actually about $ 600 less than that sale price they gave you.

    There are other leather repair companies, look on Google for your area.

    Photos won't upload if they are too large in size, in order to save bandwidth here on the forum we have a size limit on them. You may need to re-image them to something like 8" x 10" size at 72 dpi, that's a manageable size and still has great resolution.

    Good luck
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #28
    leather questioner Guest

    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    That's good, I'm glad you didn't pay $ 8K for that sofa. In 2012, that sofa was in Town and Country Program in Document and my 'everyday' order price was actually about $ 600 less than that sale price they gave you.

    There are other leather repair companies, look on Google for your area.

    Photos won't upload if they are too large in size, in order to save bandwidth here on the forum we have a size limit on them. You may need to re-image them to something like 8" x 10" size at 72 dpi, that's a manageable size and still has great resolution.

    Good luck
    Considering the reputation of the company, I feel that most consumers would feel that a sale price of $4000 should be adequate payment for a good and durable piece of furniture. The fact that the Hancock and Moore representative ignored my letter and talked to me only after several phone calls when she "discovered" the pictures I had mailed does not say much for their customer service or pride in their workmanship. Judging from this forum only, many others have had problems with Document leather, and she had to have known this. To make things worse, she recommended a product that not only did not help, but in my opinion led to the eventual tear in the inside arm.

    Regardless of what I paid for the sofa, am I now throwing good money after bad to try repairing this leather? There will be a $500 trip charge just to look at it and then overnight lodging, materials, and labor. Another estimate I have for recovering involves our hauling it about 200 miles and having it totally recovered.

    I appreciate your help in making a decision. I have resized the photos and hope they will help, although no photograph accurately depicts the areas.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sofa color off cording LR.jpg 
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  9. #29
    leather questioner Guest

    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    A couple of additional photos to show how Leather Solutions two attempts at color match turned out.Click image for larger version. 

Name:	sofa color pre Leather SolutionsLR.jpg 
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Name:	sofa cushion after Leather Solutions base and accent LR.jpg 
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    Even with the color base and accent, there is a flat appearance that does not come close to matching the original. How would they expect to duplicate the finish on the original when there is some kind of gloss or coating that cannot be duplicated?

  10. #30
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    Default Re: H&M Leather Failure

    As mentioned earlier, this is a pro-grade repair, not a consumer touch-up. What I see is pigmentation wear off on the topcoat, as was my prior guess before seeing the photos. No water-based leather care product results in a leather rip or tear, any more than a water-based product you put on skin results in a cut or penetration through your own skin.

    Gloss and sheen CAN be duplicated, there are several different products for that after the color topcoat is applied.

    Customer Service at H&M is set up for dealers, not consumers, just so you know. The system is designed that any issues you may have should go though your selling dealer, not a direct call to them unless your selling dealer is unable or unwilling to assist. A lot of folks choose to bypass this system then discover they are not getting the cooperation they feel they are entitled to when they call direct. Contact your selling dealer to help resolve the issue is the best bet and most practical for you, a good dealer can assist much better than calling H&M directly.

    If you live out where there is no one that can do this sort of thing, they why not wait until you go to visit a larger city on a trip or vacation, then haul it yourself into that city, drop it off at a leather repair facility, then enjoy your visit and pick it up when leaving town? Make it part of a trip you were taking anyways, rather than a dedicated chore.
    Last edited by drcollie; 06-09-2015 at 01:24 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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