new CHEVY VOLT

[wisejd]

Maybe you have heard the saying "Trust is Earned Every Day"? To me that is so true, having worked for decades in a very big company that served other companies of all sizes. Companies don't stay the same year in and year out, they change as their leadership changes. I think everyone would be appalled by the GM ignition switch situation and the devastating outcomes that have impacted quite a number of families. However I do believe Companies that face such tragedies tend to recognize that the status quo isn't an option. They change or disappear.

[Marjflowers]

Not sure I can agree. In this tragedy, GM didn't seem to recognize that the status quo isn't an option until they were caught dead (again, no pun intended) to rights. Eight of the thirteen deaths occurred AFTER they developed a fix in 2006 (and coincidentally didn't issue a new part number, making detection more unlikely. They knew about the problem in 2001. That's a long time of status quo before deciding that the status quo isn't an option.

And the tragedy, beyond that which the families of the 13 who died will live with endlessly, is that in all likelihood, GM will probably never be held legally accountable because of the bankruptcy. Pretty sweet silver lining to a very dark cloud. I hope they will realize what a break they're catching and not press their luck in the future. But I'm not willing to gamble on it myself.

[wisejd]

Marjflower, The "Status quo isn't an option" effect is not something that occurs when the Company in question learns of, and then covers-up what later becomes publicly known; it is instead when that Company is caught red-handed and sees the writing on the wall based on the Public Outcry.

[Marjflowers]

Yep. And that is exactly why it's hard for my to imagine GM ever regaining my trust.

All that aside, I do hope other car makers will come up with something as innovative and totally awesome as the Volt.

[drcollie]

GM's response to a know defect is inexcusable. They cannot simply say "Don't use a keychain" on their ignition switches, that doesn't cut it. Car makers are in a constant battle to contain price (like furniture makers) and they cut wherever they can. I see it every time I take a car apart to work on it. This past Monday I had to take my wife's center console apart to replace a main switch on her 2010 Mercedes GLK 350, a small SUV. I was amazed that the entire console is snap-together, not a single screw to hold it all in, like a Lego. All I needed to take it all apart was patience and a plastic putty knife. Even the $ 250 switch has a very cheap, very thin ribbon cable on it that I had to be very careful not to tear during replacement. My BMW K1600 Motorcycle is the same way, too many snap-together plastics. I like my stuff to have real nuts and bolts!

There are plenty of cars coming on line that will easily eclipse the Volt. The Tesla S for example, the Porsche 918 (its kinda pricey!) and the new BMW i8 for example. One thing with all these new cars that get great gas mileage though, people are buying less fuel and tax revenue for the roads is shrinking, so now the Feds are telling the states they can make the Interstates toll roads if they like to raise funds. You can't win....lol

[Marjflowers]

Yes, the model of using gasoline tax for the road find clearly isn't sustainable. Back in the day when the amount of gas you bought was directly proportional to the number of miles you drove, it made sense. But those days are over.

For a couple of years, several years ago, I owned a Prius, and I will have to say that it is the only car I ever truly loved. I loved the look, the technology, the gas mileage, and especially that in such a small car, I could haul 6' tables easily. Only once, though, did I get 500 miles on a tank of gas. In fact, I only averaged around 40 mpg. I'd still be driving it, except that gas went over $4.00 a gallon. (Sounds counterintuitive, but stick with me.) when the cost of gas spiked, dealers around here were frantically trying to get hold of late model used Priuses. When a dealer offered me $2000 more than I had paid for it three years earlier, I took the money and ran! As I was only getting around 40mpg, my much less expensive new Honda Civic, which gets in the mid-30s, costs about the same to operate, and maintenance costs are lower. So in effect, I got a new car with more years of warranty, and a nice piece of change out of the deal. I always suspected something wasn't quite right with my Prius since I wasn't getting the fantastic mileage that my friends were in theirs, and looking back, I'm glad I didn't keep it long enough to find out. Driving a car I loved passionately was fun, but the cash was more fun. That, and having side air bags, which my Prius didn't have. And yes, that is my idea of fun, sad to say. I do miss being able to haul stuff though, although in fairness, I've only had the need to haul stuff once since I made the trade.

But there is a fundamental question of fairness with how to pay for road maintenance and repairs -- especially when it comes to hybrids and electrics. This is a debate I've had with my Prius-driving friends for years, even when I had one. I think some sort of road use fee based on mileage makes sense, given that they're as responsible for road wear and tear as their non-hybrid counterparts. My friends argue that because they're doing more for air quality, they deserve the break. I counter that we all got our break in the form of a generous tax credit when we bought our hybrids. They come back with the argument that anybody could have made the same responsible choice they did (interesting argument from die-hard liberals!) I remind them that a whole lot of people are preoccupied with other ways to spend their money -- like eating. And we go on like this till we get bored with it and move to less controversial topics -- like politics and religion!

In Kentucky, our legislature has just fought the battle over putting a toll on a new interstate bridge. I agree with you that that one is not going to go away, any more than battles over how to pay for all our aging infrastructure. Personally, I think one big problem is that most people see no connection whatsoever between paying taxes and getting services.

Several years ago in my small hometown, the entire water system failed. For months they had no potable water. None. It was an ungodly expensive fix, and people paid and are still paying through their water bills. And they were NOT happy! Almost every incumbent lost the next election. I understood their fury -- my sister's water bill is higher than my heating bill. But by the same token, for decades, their water bills were ridiculously low. There was no maintenance and only band-aid repairs. Not for years, for decades. And when they were suddenly paying astronomical water bills, they developed this odd amnesia about the many, many years that their water bills were ridiculously low, and why. To me, it was a "pay me now or pay me later" situation. After not paying for years, they're paying big time. And they will be for a very long time. But most of the folks living there still can't see beyond their fury to make that connection.

[drcollie]

But there is a fundamental question of fairness with how to pay for road maintenance and repairs -- especially when it comes to hybrids and electrics. This is a debate I've had with my Prius-driving friends for years, even when I had one. I think some sort of road use fee based on mileage makes sense, given that they're as responsible for road wear and tear as their non-hybrid counterparts. My friends argue that because they're doing more for air quality, they deserve the break.

I agree roads have to be paid for, who likes to drive on a pot-hole-ridden highway? I sure don't. I'm always amused by the 'entitlement' that electric and hybrid owners think they deserve in not paying their fair share for the highways. What generates all that electricity for the plug-in cars? Mostly coal-fired electric plants - so much for the clean air theory. And my store diesel truck, which is a 2011 Isuzu puts out water vapor for pollution - its certified clean idle. What damages the roads most are class 7 and class 8 heavy trucks, a trip in the right lanes of the New Jersey Turnpike will show you that. But if you make them pay more for highway usage, they just pass it on in the form of higher freight charges which ultimately the consumer pays for at the register. I have no problem myself with toll roads, but its inefficient because of the infrastructure to make the toll booths and card readers (EZ Pass, etc). If it can be done without spending millions on structures to collect the tolls its not entirely a bad solution.

[Marjflowers]

Your point on the sense of entitlement of some drivers of hybrid and electric cars hits close to home this morning. I have several Pruis-driving friends (6 come to mind), but two of them have raised this mentality to an art form! They are two of my closest friends, but they are waaaay over the top on environmental issues, especially. They both retired from second careers with the Sierra Club, and they're still involved in several efforts, including water quality and closing down coal-fired electric plants I, and everyone who know me), consider myself pretty far left of center, but these two make me look like a raving right-winger! I've learned to avoid conversation on certain environmental topics, because i do so value our friendship. And because they are truly genuine in their beliefs, and most often they follow up their words with action. I respect their commitment and dedication. The irony that they fail to see is that because they have a passion for world travel, their carbon footprint is actually much larger than mine, despite their driving a Prius. Besides that, they make a 4-hour round trip to Louisville as least twice a week to visit friends, go to plays, etc. But the funniest to me is the astronomical number of miles they drive every month to go to environmental meetings and conferences. They don't see the irony, and I've chosen over the years not to point it out. But your point about where the electricity comes from is well made.