Do I really have to pay 8K?

[Nein11]

Mr. Collie,

I so appreciate all the input you have given here and other forums about leather and furniture.

I am looking to buy a sectional sofa. I want semi aniline in a dark brown or black and I want transitional styling. Other than that I am being as open minded as possible but my wife is not. I want HM or BY, she wants Wal-Mart (so to speak).

My real question is, can you buy a $3000-3500 sectional and not have it be a 5-7 year piece of furniture? If there is no mid-range between Ashley and HM than maybe my wife is right and we will just end up getting new furniture every 10 years. This is not really what I want but I am beginning to feel like my research is leading to this conclusion. help!

Chris.

[Nein11]

So...should I take that as a yes

[MRSSQRDAWAY]

Dear Chris
My husband insisted on buying the $3,000 sectional. It lasted about two years. He then insisted on the $4,000. This selection from Haverty's (made in Mexico) had to have the seat and back cores replaced in under a year. Second year the frame broke. We paid to have it repaired, on site. At this time the cores are all trash, the leather was some mix of protected and unprotected, the stain? color? has rubbed off on different leaather sections.. MY choice would be to have a trash hauler come pick it up. It is ugly, uncomfortable and so bad not one of my grandchildren wanted it. They said it was not worth their trouble to haul it. It is in an upstairs TV room where I do not have to look at it constantly. So my advice would be to look at the Hancock & Moore sectional and really estimate the cost over the long haul.

[drcollie]

There is no rocket science in building furniture, every company knows how to do it the right way. However market forces (i.e., the consumer) dictate retail target prices, and so certain companies want to service a given market segment. For example, let's say a top quality sectional in a fine leather is $ 10,000. That's your typical Hancock & Moore piece where they use the best of everything. Company "B" doesn't want to go head-to-head with H&M so they target to the customer that wants to pay $ 7,500 for the same piece. In order to get there, they have to reduce either their labor cost or the build components, there is no other way. Step 1 is to hire cheaper labor. Step 2 is to engineer the piece so it can be made in less time. Step 3 is to change the raw materials used in the build. Company "C" wants to come under company "B" and be at $5,000 so they do likewise. Then finally there is Company "D" who is going to half that and retail it at $ 2,500. Each will have to adjust all three of the build parameters to get their total build cost target and make their margin. Let's look at some ways to downgrade in A/B/C/D fashion:

Labor:

USA High Skill $ 22 hr. > USA Moderate Skill $ 14 hr > Mexico $ 6 hr > China $ 1.50 hr

Construction

Solid Maple > High Grade Plywood > Low Grade Plywood > Heavy duty Congregated (cardboard)
Double Doweled Screwed & Glued > Screwed and Glued > Screws only > Stapled
8-Way Hand-tied Springs > 8-Way Looped springs > No Sag springs > Foam only
Legs integrated into the frame > Legs screwed onto frame > Legs set into nutserts
Dupont Qualux Foam > Standard upholstery grade foam > Utility poly foam
Steel Reinforced Drum Webbing > Standard upholstery webbing > cheap cotton webbing bands
Full Top Grain leather > Top Grain Leather > Leather Splits > Bonded Leather

The list goes on and on to include how its packed to the level of customer service provided after the sale. Bottom line, you pretty much get what you pay for like in most things. Now you WILL get variance in pricing from Dealer to Dealer, so that "B" grade sectional might be $ 6,500 at one store and $ 8,000 at another for the same piece, and that's what you want to watch for.

I have a saying I coined a few years ago "Everything looks good when its new". The cheapest, cruddiest, Chinese-made sofa at Costco can look halfway decent on the warehouse floor, but the inexpensive pieces deteriorate quickly, mostly because the joinery and build materials are terrible. Once the webbing goes on any piece of upholstery - you're all done. Then its just how long you can stand it before you toss it. A typical time frame on a D grade piece might be 18 months, but you keep it for 5 years because you can't see disposing of it that quickly.

"A" Grade product is for the person who appreciates fine quality and top level builds. You don't have to buy there but its the best in all categories. B grade will miss some of the nice-to-have features of the A-Grade piece, but you're saving about 20 % in cost and not really giving up much (if anything) in pure longevity and utility. "C" Grade gets a little shaky, I'd not buy in this category myself but you can - just don't expect it perform very well after 2 years of use and for heaven's sake get rid of it when it sags out. "D" grade avoid - you're just throwing your money away.

The good stuff actually costs less to own when you look at acquisition cost over its useable lifespan (Cost per years of ownership). The issue is you have to lay out the cash up front and all at once, but its better than buying (3) "C" grade pieces in that same 25 year time period. Hope that helps!

[foxwoodfarm]

Very well said, Mr. Collie! Excellent explanation WHY "you get what you pay for". Having spent 22 years in the electronic component industry, I know the kinds of short cuts that are taken to cut costs. My husband actually moved to China in 2006-2008 running that same electronics firm's Chinese operations. You are so right that everything does look good when it's new. Both his condo and his office were furnished with leather furniture. Looked and felt wonderful at first. By the time he moved back home... not so much.

[Nein11]

Great and helpful answers thanks so much.

Am I interpreting you correctly, Mr Collie, by thinking that when you refer to "b" grade furniture you are talking about BY? What other companies do you consider b grade?