Austin 2232NB/8131NB Antelope Saddle

[cuse69]

As requested by Chercher I am posting some photos of a H&M chair and ottoman (2232NB/8131NB) in Antelope Saddle, Mahogany Distressed. This is an inclining chair. Both pieces have the optional ultra down (chair seat and back) and standard nail trim. These are almost 5 years old and are used daily by my wife and myself with ocassional visits from 3 grandsons (ages 3 to 5). The ultra down gives a very comfortable feel, but as you can see it also allows the leather to relax a bit. I will also post the matching sofa.

[karlos]

I just ordered the kodiak sofa and robinson ottoman in antelope harness from Duane, and we cant wait to get it up here in seattle. thanks for the photo looks great. the leather looks brand new still. what kind of cherry end table is that. My new motto is buy it once and enjoy the ride...

[cuse69]

Karlos... the cherry table is by Pennsylvania House, purchased at Sims in Fredericksburg, Va. The table is nice for the family room. Unlike the Stickley we have, with this table we don't worry much about wear and tear from everyday use. Unfortunately both the manufacturer and furniture retailer are both out of business. Pennsylvania House was a respected mid-quality manufacturer that found it difficult to compete. In their later years they manufactured their product in China to reduce cost. I'm not sure if they may have even been acquired by a Chinese company. Maybe Duane or one of the other dealers on the board can give us the story of a good manufacturer who eventually failed.

[drcollie]

Larry, I think most makers fail for the same reason many retailers fail. Furniture is a labor and materials intensive business, so there is really not any secret to doing it, and many do it well. There has to be a margin earned, coupled with a certain volume tied to that margin to remain in business. If either slips dramatically, the maker (or store) cannot survive.

Moving to China for production was an effort to reduce costs, thereby preserving margin in a highly competitive field. But there were a whole lot of makers that moved to China all at once so what happened was prices (and margins) were reduced through competition and there was no benefit to the makers profit-wise, but consumers paid less for the goods. One of the things that many didn't plan on was poor quality control and damaged goods (damages are rather high in my opinion, as they come from China to the store without every being touched).

You're going to continue to see makers and stores go under. Why? Because they either need 2x the volume or 10 % more margin than they now have to be healthy, and its not happening. You can trade volume for margin, or margin for volume, but you can't hang on with both in decline. Eventually, only a few will be left standing and you won't see new players coming into the marketplace. I had someone call me for advice on opening a furniture store a few months ago. Know what I told him? "Don't even consider it. You will fail and lose your start-up cash, I can almost guarantee it. If you want your own business, look elsewhere, but not in home furnishings!"

[Briant73]

Larry, I think most makers fail for the same reason many retailers fail. Furniture is a labor and materials intensive business, so there is really not any secret to doing it, and many do it well. There has to be a margin earned, coupled with a certain volume tied to that margin to remain in business. If either slips dramatically, the maker (or store) cannot survive.

Moving to China for production was an effort to reduce costs, thereby preserving margin in a highly competitive field. But there were a whole lot of makers that moved to China all at once so what happened was prices (and margins) were reduced through competition and there was no benefit to the makers profit-wise, but consumers paid less for the goods. One of the things that many didn't plan on was poor quality control and damaged goods (damages are rather high in my opinion, as they come from China to the store without every being touched).

You're going to continue to see makers and stores go under. Why? Because they either need 2x the volume or 10 % more margin than they now have to be healthy, and its not happening. You can trade volume for margin, or margin for volume, but you can't hang on with both in decline. Eventually, only a few will be left standing and you won't see new players coming into the marketplace. I had someone call me for advice on opening a furniture store a few months ago. Know what I told him? "Don't even consider it. You will fail and lose your start-up cash, I can almost guarantee it. If you want your own business, look elsewhere, but not in home furnishings!."

Part of the problem is regardless where the furniture is made that the American public has no clue why a sofa, loveseat, chair, cocktail table, and 2 end tables for $999.99 is a worse deal than just a fabric sofa for the same price. Yeah you get a lot of furniture for the $999.99 but say a US made Flexsteel sofa in fabric at that price probably will probably last at least 2-3 times as long as any piece in the full room deal.

I know some people who do reupholstery and times are tough to get people to reupholster a piece when they see an add for a brand new piece at half the cost to recover. Yet the peice they toss is probably built better than the new piece they rush out to buy.

My mother in the early 90s bought some Basset pieces for her house, they actually held up decent till about 2004 when some of the springs broke on the couch where people sat most. I had a guy repair the springs and as he tore down the piece he told me about it's build quality and how there is better and worse. He said the better stuff is worth it but you do pay initially but you can plan on keeping it for many years and when the upholstery wears out just have it redone. He talked about the frame, springs, cushions and gave me a decent introduction to furniture. Last year at this time I was amazed when I went shopping and stopped at the local mega furniture store in my town and the stores best pieces today are built no better than the Basset which back then was low-mid grade stuff in the early 90s.

I guess that some times progress sucks.

[drcollie]

There are products on the market that are every bit as good today, if not better, than the upholstery of the 80's and 90's. But there are no Cheap & Good products out there. As I mentioned before, their is no mystery to building good furniture - every maker knows how to do it. Some, like Hancock and Moore, say "We are going to build it to the highest standard and that's all there is to it." Others such as Bradington Young will build to "80% of the high standard, but we're going to do X and Y as substitutes to position us lower in price than the super premiums." Then you get a company such as Flexsteel who says 'We're abandoning traditional furniture construction and going to reinvent the methods to save money and yet go for the durability." Then of course you have the bottom feeders, who are going to make the pieces appear to be well-constructed, but know full well they will not hold up over time. Their goal is to get you to buy the piece at a price point, not ever planning on you being a repeat customer.

At the end of the day its that old adage "You get what you pay for". That rings true for probably 90% of all furniture purchases IMHO. I like to say also that "Everything looks good when its new, but how does it look and perform in five years?" That's the real acid test...not when its new, but when its had a few miles on it.

[Briant73]

There are products on the market that are every bit as good today, if not better, than the upholstery of the 80's and 90's. But there are no Cheap & Good products out there. As I mentioned before, their is no mystery to building good furniture - every maker knows how to do it. Some, like Hancock and Moore, say "We are going to build it to the highest standard and that's all there is to it." Others such as Bradington Young will build to "80% of the high standard, but we're going to do X and Y as substitutes to position us lower in price than the super premiums." Then you get a company such as Flexsteel who says 'We're abandoning traditional furniture construction and going to reinvent the methods to save money and yet go for the durability." Then of course you have the bottom feeders, who are going to make the pieces appear to be well-constructed, but know full well they will not hold up over time. Their goal is to get you to buy the piece at a price point, not ever planning on you being a repeat customer.

At the end of the day its that old adage "You get what you pay for". That rings true for probably 90% of all furniture purchases IMHO. I like to say also that "Everything looks good when its new, but how does it look and perform in five years?" That's the real acid test...not when its new, but when its had a few miles on it.

I didn't mean to imply that all furniture was better then or that no brands today are built well, far from it. What I was trying to say is this super store doesn't have any furniture better than a set that was purcahsed in the early 90s and from what I have been told was postioned on the low end of the mid range. If I wanted to find a BY, H&M or even Flexsteel quality I couldn't at this store (not counting the flexsteel latitudes which they had 1 of). The store seemed to consist mostly of bottom feeder brands with low build quality which is dissapointing because a lot of people leave it thinking they got top quality items due to the store's succesful advertising and marketing. You said it right when these brands and stores could care less about return business.

[drcollie]

Here's a true story.

Wash DC area had a local chain of stores called C.L. Barnes with six locations. Big stores, nicely done....but they sold cheap junk. There was not a quality line in the store (Lane was their best brand).

One day - about fifteen years ago - Reny Barnes, owner of the chain, came into my store (he had one of his locations 2 miles from where I am). He looked around and introduced himself afterwards. I had never met the man before but knew who he was. What he said really struck me at the time, so I recall it clearly.

He told me matter-of-factly:

"You have the wrong business model for your store".

I bristled. I'm not real fond of someone walking into my place off the street and giving me an unsolicited evaluation of my business. So I replied "You think? How so?"

Reny continued: "You have very high-quality product, but you sell it too cheaply. That's no way to make money. In my stores, I sell a low-quality product at high margins."

I eyeballed him and said "Yes, I know you do. Doesn't that bother you to sell a sofa you paid $ 300 for to someone for $ 1,200 and you know its not going to last more then five years?"

Reny said "Not in the least. It's just business. Its not my problem if it breaks down once its past the warranty."

(O.K., he has a good point, from a strictly business standpoint, he's right)

I ask him "I bet you don't get many repeat customers."

He said "No, but I don't need to. Get 'em once - get 'em good - and then move on to the next new customer. This is Washington DC, we have so many people moving in and out of here you don't have to worry about a reputation."

I replied "I actually like my customers, and could never do that to them. I have to be able to sleep at night."

Reny said "I sleep just fine, and you should think about what I just said and raise your prices, or buy cheaper stock."

And off he went. I thought about that conversation for a long time...for many days afterward and still go back to it from time to time. I decided to stay with the way I was doing things, but it really shocked me to hear all that.

CL Barnes went out-of-business four years ago. I drive by one of his empty stores every day. I'd love to move into that building - its perfectly laid out. And it would be the fitting end to our conversation we once had....appears my business model has worked out in the long run over his.

[Briant73]

Nice story Duane. I am glad your way worked out for you! A forum like this can help educate people to know there are levels of quality in furniture and where to get each level at. Cuse69 pictures show how well quality furniture with regular care can hold up after 5 years.

[cuse69]

Duane... and how many others in the DC area--- Mastercraft, Sims, Colony House,
etc. It seems to me your model of minimal overhead is a key to your success. Let's hope this economic disaster doesn't claim more victims and quality businesses such as The Keeping Room.