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Thread: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

  1. #21
    Trogdor Guest

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    When I first got into this business, I decided to buck the trend of "FURNITURE SALE! 40 to 60% OFF!!" that is standard practice in this industry. I saw it as needless and indicative of snake oil salesmen to market that way, and it requires neon signs in the store and constant advertising. That was nearly three decades ago and I'm still here, so it shows that my formula worked enough to at least stay in business. I only offer an additional discount when the manufacturer offers ME one, such as the ongoing H&M 5% off Sale. Folks say... "Only 5%!?" Well...yeah....that's what I am getting so I'll pass it onto you.

    To cut through the chase on things and get to the bottom of it all, the industry as a whole marks up 3x the dealer wholesale (there are exceptions to this, but for the majority of suppliers this works). So, an item that the dealer pays $ 1,000 for has a MSRP of $ 3,000. If the dealer sells at 40% off, then the retail is going to be $ 1,799 and if they sell for 50% off then its $ 1,499. Gross Profit Margin (GPM) is (Retail - Cost) / Retail so at 50% off that works out to a GPM of 33%. There are not many furniture stores that can stay in business if they attempt to operate at under 33 % GPM. If they run a VERY tight ship, with no debt, low rent and few employees, they may net 15% from that at year end if they get a decent sales year. And that's for a very aggressively priced store in a rather poor location. If you put them into a mall environment or a 'nice' location in a major retail area that 33% won't cut it and they will need another 10% to cover the real estate costs . Few stores in major cities such as Washington DC / New York / San Francisco / Chicago, etc. can afford to do 50% off every day, the margins are too low and expenses will grind them up (warehousing costs will eat them up as well, warehouse space is prime in major cities). That's why big discounters are usually in small outlying cities or warehouse areas where the space ie cheaper. Because the margins are what they are, you can now see why a 2 to 3 % credit card transaction fee can have quite an impact on the bottom line. That, in a nutshell, is how it all works. I run about as lean as a store can possible run - which is why I can price so aggressively. A lot of my local customers would like me to move to a 'better' location and I dearly would like to as well, but I'd have to add that 10 % onto the selling price to cover those nice locations and that has always made me cautious of a move.

    You might be surprised at how much service is required after the sale. At any given time I have about 6 to 8 issues I am working on for customers. As I write this I have in the hopper the following and all require time and effort to pursue:

    * A table refinish that a customer left in her sunlit kitchen window and it faded out dramatically due to constant UV rays. Not a warranty issue at all, but I'm not going to tell her 'too bad, buy a new table'.
    * The third swivel base replacement on a H&M Swivel Recliner chair that the customer says doesn't rotate smoothly enough but bases # 1 and # 2 seem to work fine at our store.
    * A replacement footboard on a bed that has a sap pocket in the wood. It's 'normal' but the customer would like it replaced so we will.
    * A chair that is going back to H&M for replacement leather on an arm after it had been delivered due to a mysterious orange rash on it that no one seems to know how it occurred. I am replacing the leather at my expense.
    * A set of replacement cores for an H&M sofa that I did not sell (their dealer had gone out of business) and I am sourcing for them as a courtesy.
    * Treharn forgot to drill a cord hole in the back of an entertainment center that we shipped out of state (direct pickup), so coordinating to get a handyman there to drill a few holes in the back of it.
    * A H&M Power/Lift chair in a high-end leather that my good customer ordered for her invalid husband and he was uncomfortable in it - so I have it back here on consignment to sell as a courtesy.

    Customer service is one of those things where if you don't need it - you're golden. But when you DO need it, its really nice to have someone that will actually do something for you. And as you can see, many of the issues are not cut and dried - things many stores would say 'Sorry, that's not our problem". I try to operate at a higher level than that when I can.

    As to the amount spent - $ 20K is not a particularly large number, I get an order that size regularly. When you work off realistic percentages in your business, you would have to have a huge order to compensate for the reduced percentage margin to cover it - if the order was say $ 100K, then there might be a tad bit more room in a discount, but also keep in mind that big orders present their own set of issues as well, such as having enough warehouse space and trucking capability to handle it. Often that means renting extra storage space and an additional truck / crew which is an added cost. When I did seventy-two pieces of Hancock and Moore for The White House (1600 Penn. Ave). I was getting a lot of pressure from the GSA buyer for additional discounts. I called H&M and asked for one and was turned down, and was presented with "We will have to put every employee on this order to get it all done at the same time and there is no efficiency in that, in fact it will screw up our production schedules to drop everything do make this order in a timely manner". After I got off the phone, I realized that was correct. So I couldn't get the GSA buyer a lower price, but still won the bid as my every day price was lower than anyone else's on the items by quite a bit.

    I think everyone has their own comfort levels of buying - not only furniture but in every consumer product from a car to a house to a piece of jewelry. You have to buy in your comfort level, or maybe just a little beyond. When you exceed it, then your expectations of what it should be and the anxiety of the price overcome the fun of the purchase, and you really can't enjoy it like you should. Probably best to seek out pieces that work for you within that comfort level and stay in that range. You won't find anyone fireballing out Stickley to my knowledge, the maker controls the distribution too tightly to allow renegade discounters to sell the line.
    20k on two rooms is a significant investment in my book. With 6%+ unemployment rate and retail sector pretty much completely flat, I'm surprised you think otherwise.

    FYI, Duane, I just been informed there is an additional 10% off the 40% if you spend more than 10k right now. LOL. That's 50%. Like I said, 50% off Stickley MSRP seems exactly where folks should start. Anything else is highway robbery.

  2. #22
    Trogdor Guest

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by cuse69 View Post
    Just another thought about your purchasing decisions. If you are in northern NJ, you might consider contacting the sales group at the Stickley factory about any sales opportunities. Not having been back to their facilities in a number of years I don't know the status of their factory store, but they did have special sales events from time to time. A 4 hour car trip to Manlius ( eastern suburb of Syracuse) might be worthwhile. Also it might be an opportunity to see additional pieces that the local store may not have in stock and to become more knowledgable about the brand/quality.
    Would they offer cheaper prices than in NJ? We are not in northern NJ, but central. That four hour car trip better be damn well worth it!

    Do you mind if I ask how much mark down did you experience when you bought your piece?

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Lakewood Ranch, Florida
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    243

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    I can't answer your question regarding markdown, except when they held a special sales event ( once or twice a year) the prices were indeed lower than their normal markdown from MSRP. I don't recall the markdown on the pieces I purchased but I am value focused when making big ticket purchases and I am sure the markdown exceeded 50% of MSRP. I liken it to the annual factory sale on Hickey Freeman men's clothing at the factory in Rochester, NY were 50-70% off of MSRP was typical.

    These sales were only local, not national, so I would suspect if they still hold them the prices would indeed be better than NJ. You absolutely need to call the headquarters in Manlius to check on the schedule and confirm. Also, I lived in Princeton and worked in New Brunswick for a few years and the drive from central NJ to Syracuse is about 4 hours with another 15 min. to Manlius.
    Last edited by cuse69; 08-16-2014 at 11:05 PM.

  4. #24
    djjm Guest

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    Trogdor posted above:
    FYI, Duane, I just been informed there is an additional 10% off the 40% if you spend more than 10k right now. LOL. That's 50%. Like I said, 50% off Stickley MSRP seems exactly where folks should start. Anything else is highway robbery.

    Trogdor,
    An additional 10% off furniture that is already discounted 40% would be a total discount of 46% not 50%. It would be different if they said an additional 10% off the total, that would be 50% off.

  5. #25
    Trogdor Guest

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by djjm View Post
    Trogdor posted above:
    FYI, Duane, I just been informed there is an additional 10% off the 40% if you spend more than 10k right now. LOL. That's 50%. Like I said, 50% off Stickley MSRP seems exactly where folks should start. Anything else is highway robbery.

    Trogdor,
    An additional 10% off furniture that is already discounted 40% would be a total discount of 46% not 50%. It would be different if they said an additional 10% off the total, that would be 50% off.
    I will double check, but I believe it was off the total.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    54

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by needstuff View Post
    IIRC the mark-down was 40%. That's about what the "higher end" brick & mortar stores around here will do, so far as I found when I was looking. when they are not on "sale" they are more like 30-35% IIRC. The stores we looked at, that is.

    On the plus side, the Stickley salesperson helped us a lot with selection and fabric, beyond what we would likely have been able to do over the phone. We benefitted from that help, for this particular purchase. The salespeople who helped us there seemed to me to be above the norm, based on what/who I encountered elsewhere. And of course we actually sat in examples of the various sofas.

    Of course we would have welcomed the opportunity to pay less, but such opportunity did not leap out at us for this particular purchase. We had a lot of trouble settling on something to buy. It was worth an additional 10% to put us out of our misery, frankly. It would be different if we knew what we wanted without utilizing in-store sales assistance and actual examples to sit on. We tried going that route for a long time, but at the end of the day we were still without a new sofa. So we said screw it, let's do it "the old-fashioned way". Which worked, in short order. At some additional expense, no doubt.
    Hello.

    From Kettering OH. Came to the local store because the H&M site listed it as the only seller within 50 miles. The store had a large selection of Stickley, Jessica Charles, BY, but not much of an H&M sofa selection. The sales lady, Valerie, was great. We are small people, elderly (late 60s), and found one Stickley 500 series sofa that we found attractive in fabric, and extremely comfortable. Most sofas seemed built for large people, and are Backbreakers. We ordered a motion sofa in that fabric, cancelled within 2 days and changed it to the 500 series that sold us in the first place. Added a cocktail ottoman. We paid 35% off. A few days later, we saw a TV ad at 40% off. The store gave us an immediate credit. Have to applaud their policies. Then darn it, a week or so later, we saw an ad for 42% off Presidents Day sale. Couldn't resist. We went back in to look for a chair that would make the room. We selected the Stickley Mission Chair/Ottoman, in grey semi aniline leather, that is a good match for the fabric on the sofa. It's called a recliner, but you have to move pegs in back to put it in the reclining position. No footrest, so the we added the ottoman for the look. That chair will make the room, when delivered. Our only regret is that we ordered the sofa/table in expresso wood stain. We selected the cherry for the chair. That's the problem with adding on pieces at different times. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The store policies and great sales help made us immediate repeat customers. Would never order online or even from the store catalog. We sat in so many sofas, and only felt comfortable in one. The 500 series is made for smaller people. Caution on leather. We had a semi aniline previously. I spilled a cup of tea on it, cleaned it up immediately, but it looked terrible after that. We will be more careful this time.

  7. #27
    catchat Guest

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    I just wanted to let you know this is very helpful information and to say thanks. I know the credit card companies also hit businesses for another 3% when a customer returns an item, so that is another contingency businesses have to plan for. Anyway, I just bought my first Stickley yesterday from a small local dealer and I was unsure of the pricing since I couldn't find a single MSRP anywhere on the internet for Stickley. I figured the store's "our price" which is about 25-30% off "MSRP" is really their regular price since they always have those. Every once in a while they have a "red tag" sale offering deeper discounts on a just a few items. Your forum answers put me at ease about what I paid. Customer service also goes a long way for repeat business. My sofa will arrive today. I'm pretty sure it won't match anything in my house, so when I get the funds to add more pieces I will be calling the same salesperson who helped me with this one, and if we find the right ones, I probably won't care that the pieces won't be on sale.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    Google: Paul Stein Stickley for my review of the Stickley Morris Chair I purchased. I put photos on.

    Special order in grade 3 Italian leather. I went with cherry wood. Supposed retail about $ 4700. I paid $ 2700, plus another $550 for the Ottoman. Peg reclining system. Presidents Day sale at about 42% off.

    I also purchased a sofa and 48 inch long Ottoman. Initially got the standard 1/3 off. Next week, I saw the store advertising the President's Day sale with all Stickley at 42% off. They gave me a price adjustment. My only regret is that I ordered the sofa and large Ottoman first in a different wood, dark vs cherry. We got the newer series sofa for smaller people. Wife is 4 ft. 10. I am 5 ft. 7. We are retired and on the sofa many hours per day. Super comfortable, and so glad we got it over a recliner. We got a fabric sofa, and added a Sure Fit cover, as we have a small dog. The sales lady recommended a leather Ottoman as it stands up better to the feet. The Morris Chair is for our larger guests, and is a beautiful statement piece. The sofa that matched the chair was for larger people, and we had trouble getting out of it.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    54

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    I think my chair is actually called the Bow Arm chair. I get confused between the two.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
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    54

    Default Re: Stickley Furniture prices are confusing me, how to budget?

    Quote Originally Posted by catchat View Post
    I just wanted to let you know this is very helpful information and to say thanks. I know the credit card companies also hit businesses for another 3% when a customer returns an item, so that is another contingency businesses have to plan for. Anyway, I just bought my first Stickley yesterday from a small local dealer and I was unsure of the pricing since I couldn't find a single MSRP anywhere on the internet for Stickley. I figured the store's "our price" which is about 25-30% off "MSRP" is really their regular price since they always have those. Every once in a while they have a "red tag" sale offering deeper discounts on a just a few items. Your forum answers put me at ease about what I paid. Customer service also goes a long way for repeat business. My sofa will arrive today. I'm pretty sure it won't match anything in my house, so when I get the funds to add more pieces I will be calling the same salesperson who helped me with this one, and if we find the right ones, I probably won't care that the pieces won't be on sale.
    Your comment on customer service. My Ottoman arrived with a cracked leg. It was then refinished locally. Poor job. I sent it back. They ordered a new one and let me keep the other one until the new one arrived. I paid $ 1250 for the supposed $ 2000 MSRP Ottoman. Special order, 48 inches, Italian Leather. Part of the 42% authorized sale for President's day.

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