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Thread: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closures

  1. #1
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    Default A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closures

    One of the issues that comes up from time to time on sofas and chairs that have welt trim closures (some folks call it "piping" or "cording") on seat and back cushions, is that they can lose color or flake over time with friction wear. This is most noticeable on Finished or Protected leathers, where there is a light coat of paint and topcoat in leathers such as Document or Antelope. There's not much color material on the leather and its bent over into a tight roll and the can show wear from use - especially if use is with high-friction clothing such as denim. It's a fairly common complaint I do get from customers who are surprised to see this occur. It is not a warranty issue. Both H&M and the Tanneries are aware of this occuring and the solution would be to apply more pigmented material and topcoat to these hides, but then the main body leather becomes stiff and loses its 'hand' and softness. By necessity, the color and topcoats are kept light to make the leather attractive. If you want to see a hide that has lots of material on it that would be the GR 1 Challenger - which no one ever buys because it feels like cardboard.

    Here's a photo of what I mean, a 3-year old sofa in Document showing welt trim flaking.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Aniline hides are dyed, and won't show any chipping at the welt, but they can show friction wear which can usually be blended out by rubbing in leather conditioner to the friction areas.

    I think some folks are very disappointed if these see this wear on their H&M pieces, (and to be clear it happens to all the brands) so I decided to speak with the executives at H&M to see if we can offer customers a 'no welt' option for seat and back cushions which will mean a plain sewn closure. Because its smooth, you're not going to see wear or if you do it will be very minor. And I'm happy to report, this will now be a no-cost option on any Hancock and Moore leather upholstery item. Simply specify "No Welt on Seat or Back Cushions" and you will get a simple sewn closure similar to a top stitch. And it will look similar to this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now you have a choice - and choices are good! Even better when they don't come with an upcharge. Myself - I like them both. A welt trim dresses out a piece a little more but the stitch closure will give a cleaner look. The default will be the welt trim - so this is something you MUST request at time of order if you want it. Note that other dealers won't be aware of this option, and may tell you its not something they can do. But you can, just have them write up the order as per outlined above and submit it.

    Note also that if you have a welt trim friction wear flaking issue, in most cases H&M will replace or touch up the trim if the casings are returned to them. They reserve the right to levy a charge to do so if the cushion casing shows signs of high use or abuse. Also note it will be likely to re-occur even if replaced. You can also apply a little color to the trim yourself by requesting a small bottle of touch-up for painted hides (Protected) only.
    Last edited by drcollie; 12-03-2014 at 06:43 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  2. #2
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    That is a welcome option. I guess the welt trim was designed to hide the stitching in the first place, but actually the stitching in the photo you provided looks quite nice. I am hoping our Sundance Sofa gives us many years of use prior to demonstrating this issue.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    Welt trim is a closure feature that is done to show no stitching when joining panels, so its either that or a stitch. In the trade, welt is seen as 'more finished' and more classy however I myself like the clean edge-over of stitching and order many of my own personal pieces with custom stitching vs welt. Just depends on what you like. I neglected to point out that have the stitch closure option is not available on married covered Town and Country 'kit' leathers, as they come to H&M pre-cut, and pre-assembled.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  4. #4
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    This is fantastic-- the no welt look is so much more modern, and it's more comfortable if you're wearing shorts or putting your legs up on an ottoman. Also easier to clean. FTW!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    I really like the look of the stitch, It's always nice to have more options (especially at no up charge), but I still like the defining welt on some pieces like the Austin, where the welt is out of the way. Thanks for the info Duane!

  6. #6
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    I agree entirely. Welt is made of strips of the leather when they cut it out in the pattern - and believe it or not it uses quite a bit of hide to make welts for a single sofa. On some pieces the stitch closure won't look right - and you need the welt trim. The key is to consider changing the leather sometimes, to something that won't flake off. You can even use contrasting welt trim on most pieces and have the welt made of something thicker and stronger. For example, if I were doing a piece in GR 4 Antelope, I'd specify the welt trim in something like Equestrian (GR3) which is tough and not top coated. No charge to do that at H&M if the welt is done is same grade or lesser. You can still get friction wear that you can see on any leather used, but the anilines won't flake off the color like the finished leathers can - because the latter is painted, not dyed.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  7. #7
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    I agree entirely. Welt is made of strips of the leather when they cut it out in the pattern - and believe it or not it uses quite a bit of hide to make welts for a single sofa. On some pieces the stitch closure won't look right - and you need the welt trim. The key is to consider changing the leather sometimes, to something that won't flake off. You can even use contrasting welt trim on most pieces and have the welt made of something thicker and stronger. For example, if I were doing a piece in GR 4 Antelope, I'd specify the welt trim in something like Equestrian (GR3) which is tough and not top coated. No charge to do that at H&M if the welt is done is same grade or lesser. You can still get friction wear that you can see on any leather used, but the anilines won't flake off the color like the finished leathers can - because the latter is painted, not dyed.
    Is the portfolio claret an aniline leather or will it, too, flake? I am also confused about the seat cushion inserts "replacement policy.." as I have gotten conflicting info from local HM dealers on this issue. One said that H&M will replace the inserts free of charge. Another said they absolutely will not, unless there is some defect other than wear & tear. Reading a written copy of H&M's warranty, I do not see where they will replace inserts at no charge. I am actually considering ordering an extra set of cushion inserts because mine always seem to flatten out after a few years (although I have never had an H&M sofa before). Can I trouble you to ask your price on the Sundance sofa in portfolio claret, with the springdown cushions and no welt (shipped to Oklahoma)? Thank you!
    sheri

  8. #8
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    strofferazo, We have the Sundance in Portfolio Claret, which is a protected leather (not aniline). I would not worry about "flaking" with proper and very simple cleaning / care. We purchased the Ultra Down cushions because we like both the look and the feel of those cushions. If you don't want any pooling of signs of where folks tend to sit over time then the foam core without the Ultra Down wrap may be the way to go. If you want a quote from Duane at The Keeping Room, you will need to send him a Private Message on the Forum or an email. He will not offer pricing directly within a Forum post on H&M furniture. We have had our Sundance for over a year now and it looks fantastic ...it was an excellent choice. Very stylish and comfortable.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    The Portfolio is a FINISHED, or PAINTED leather. Please keep in mind that only a small percentage of finished hides peel or flake, its probably only 2 % in the first 10 years of use, its not a widespread issue but if you are in that 2 % it then it is! Portfolio Claret is the Married Cover for the 4716 Sundance sofa, and as such if you want the best price is has to come with welt trim, as the covers are pre-cut and pre-sewn. To do a non-welt trim in that same leather will add close to $ 1,000 to the price as it has to be custom cut and done in Hickory NC rather than the married cover. I will PM you a price.

    H&M has always sent out free core replacements to its customers, they don't even charge shipping. Two caveats: 1) You have to be the original owner (always register your purchase on-line with H&M under WARRANTY on their web site). 2) It will be in the same core as originally ordered when the piece was made. This is a courtesy they do for their customers and not a written policy as as such, subject to change. They have done it as long as I have been a dealer, however.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  10. #10
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    Default Re: A new feature for HANCOCK & MOORE customers - no charge option on cushion closure

    Duane,
    Thank you very much for the info and the quote. I have read their website very carefully and couldn't find any info on what "types" of leather they were and this is so helpful. I have some decisions to make!

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