BY Leather Options, Questions

[sofa87]

Ok, so i am in the market and plan on purchasing a few BY products. I am trying to do as much research as i can before throwing down thousands of dollars. I am wondering about their AP (aniline plus) leathers. More specifically the 9110 and 9417 lines. Here is a summary of what i have gathered so far on the three leather options:

Finished - Heavily processed hides. They are essentially painted to look good and then have a protective top coat. The paint can / will eventually wear away over time and possibly "chip"which will show spots.
Aniline Plus - Kind of a mix between finished and pure aniline. Not worked as heavily as a finished leather. They are sanded which can remove some of the natural imperfections. They are vat dyed then finished with a protective top coat / paint.
Aniline - This is "real leather". You can / will have natural imperfections in the leather. Vat dyed then a protective wax or teflon coating may be applied. Wears and ages wonderfully over time. More prone to staining and "scratches".

Here are my thoughts based on what i've read.

Finished - I don't want a finished leather.
Aniline Plus - I like the idea of an aniline plus but don't fully understand it. Since it is vat dyed, which penetrates clear through the hide then the coat / paint on this hide shouldn't really show wear should it? If the top coat wears away the dye will always be underneath there right? Does that make sense?
Aniline - I have no problem with natural imperfections in a hide. I think it would look great and provide character to a piece of furniture. Obviously you would never have to worry about "paint" wearing off or chipping away.

Some questions:

1. Will any option above stay in good condition as long as one takes time to take proper care of their furniture?
2. No matter what, finished leathers will eventually have the paint wear off right?
3. How will an aniline plus hold up over time if properly cared for? Will it "chip" or show paint wear? If so, why?
4. Anyone have any personal experiences they want to share?

Just trying to gather as much information as i can to make the most informative decision for my purchase.

Thanks in advance for any help or thoughts you guys might have.

[drcollie]

1. Will any option above stay in good condition as long as one takes time to take proper care of their furniture?

Yes. I think many people look for that 'bulletproof' leather in their search. One that does it all and lasts forever. It doesn't exist. At the end of the day all leather is the skin of an animal, that has been treated to make it supple, soft and has had color added. Like most anything you buy from a car to a house to a cell phone to blue jeans, if you use it then its going to show wear in some form or manner. Three out of every four customers tell me "I'm spending a lot of money on this and I want something that will last". I understand and appreciate that, and every leather will show wear in a different manner depending on the leather itself, the lifestyle, sun exposure, and how often you maintain it. You can slow it down and keep it looking good for a long time, but you can't stop it regardless of the class of hide. If you buy a pair of leather shoes, they can be the $ 49 specials at DSW of the $ 500 designer ones at Nordstorms, and both will show some degree of wear with use and time.

2. No matter what, finished leathers will eventually have the paint wear off right?

Well sure, if we are talking over an indefinite period of time. Paint lays on the surface of anything, correct? The more coats you put on (up to a certain point) the better longevity you will typically get. With leather though, heavy coats mean its loses suppleness and becomes plasticky hard. So the trick is to get enough on there for coverage, but not so much the leather loses its sensitivity appeal. 90% of all leathers you come in contact with on a daily basis are finished, or painted. That includes almost every car interior leather, shoes, handbags, etc. Corner edges and welts take the brunt of wear areas, they are the most exposed. Certain leathers where the paint is applied thinly will have less adhesion than those where the paint is on thicker.

3. How will an aniline plus hold up over time if properly cared for? Will it "chip" or show paint wear? If so, why?

No better or worse than any other type.

4. Anyone have any personal experiences they want to share?

I think far too many people focus too hard on this, seeking that magic leather that wears forever. It's not going to happen, so pick the leather you like! Toss out the low and the high - and by that I mean the plastic, hard leathers on the bottom level (never buy BiCast or Splits, or Bonded types as well) and the fragile leathers on the top like Deerskin, Lambskin, Suedes and Nubucks. Pick most any cowhide you like and you will be fine, then most of all just enjoy it. Everyone maintains their leather when its 6 months old and at the 1 year mark. The trick is to keep that clean/soften/protect regimen when the furniture is 5 or 7 or 10 years old, when its just 'the sofa in the family room'. If you keep your maintenance up and do it regularly you will extend the useful life of the cover - but you will never prevent wear patterns in any hide. Don't over-think or over-research it, then you will stagnate into no-decision-land. Buy what appeals to you - don't let the sun beat on it all day, and clean it 2x a year at minimum and all will be fine.

[sofa87]

Duane,

Thanks for the insight. You always provide such great help!

I guess what i'm trying to say or ask is this. Since finished leather is painted, the paint will come off and we've established that. To me it looks like what happened in these photos http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...ton-Young-pics Those photos show a dark brown - brown couch and the wear spots look tan / beige. It looks like the paint wore off and the natural color of the unpainted hide is coming through. I don't want this look on my furniture.

Since aniline is "real leather" it won't (shouldn't) do this since it's been vat dyed, which penetrates completely through the hide. There is no paint to come off. Real leather may change to different variations of the overall color but it will not change color, unless it fades right? I use leather conditioner at home on boots and belts and it is wonderful for leather. It can bring worn out leather back to life but it can't bring color from worn off paint back. To essentially fix the one in the photos it would need re-painted. I don't want to have to think about that. I can handle natural age of real leather.

So since semi-aniline or aniline plus is a hybrid does it act more like a finished leather where the paint will wear off or more like an aniline. From what i gather an aniline plus is vat dyed then a pigmented top coat is applied. I guess that pigmented top coat could wear off but then it would wear to a dyed hide.

Maybe i'm answering my own question and should go with an aniline Sorry if i seem like i'm over-analyzing and maybe i am. I do a lot of critical thinking and problem solving in my job and i let that carry over into my normal everyday life.

[drcollie]

Very good logic, but there are other factors at play. I am home today, and just took these shots of two recliners I have in my home a few minutes ago. The first one is a Hancock and Moore Woodbridge Recliner I bought as my very first leather piece in 1987 I think it was. So that makes it about 28 years old. It was a promotional finished (painted leather) and would be equal to the town and country promotion ones today. As you can see, it looks pretty good for 28 years of use. Its solid, the mechanism has no slop in it, there is no perceptible wear on it, its on its original cushion cores and I've no doubt it will go another 28 years. I maintain this regularly.



Now here's my Bradington Young recliner, which I bought about 2003 or 2004. So its 11 to 12 years old - half the age of the H&M unit above. It's a pure aniline with a mild pull-up effect, with down cushions. As you can see, it looks more 'worn' and has some color loss. I uses this chair quite heavily and for long hours recovering from cancer surgery in 2005 - it has a lot of miles on it. But what you are also seeing is some sun fade on it. I have (5) large palladium windows in my home and this chair gets the brunt of that in the room. There are also lots of pressure marks on the hide from our Cairn Terrier jumping in the chair as you can see.. The frame is solid, mechanism is great and the cushions look more rumpled as these are down cores in the seat and back. I didn't realize how dusty this was until I imported the photos...mea culpa! This will go another 20 years as well.



Which of these two do I prefer? The Bradington Young. It's not as pretty now, but the leather on this is super-soft vs the more 'top-coated' feel of the H&M recliner next to it, and the down cushions are perfect in this chair. I need to give it a treatment now to get the dust off, but other than that its a solid piece. Do I care it has some sun fade and marks? Not really. To me its all about the feel of the piece when you sit in it. If the chair goes 20 years and needs to be replaced, that's fine....it owes me nothing. 20 years of use on a $ 1,700 unit is $ 85 a year. Yet you would be AMAZED at the number of people that raise a fuss because their high quality recliner they use day in and day out failed after two decades.....go figure.

So I will always stay with 'get the one you like, that feels the best and don't worry too much how it looks over time'. Enjoy it, use it, give it some reasonable care and you're good to go.