Sundance leather replica??

[TXCajun]

Oh no. The problem is I don't have the knowledge base to properly do that rating (and neither does Leather Shoppes). To do that correctly, and with integrity, would mean a half-day visit to each of those factories where they produce the pieces to actually see how they are building them, or to buy a piece from each maker and take it apart at my store, and I can't afford to do that. I need to put hands-on it, and look with my own two eyes.

Two problems however.

First, is who that kind of time to devote to that? It would take a month to do it right and realistically cost about $ 15,000 in travel and lost income to do a mega factory tour circuit just in the Carolinas.

Second is gaining access to the factories on brands I don't sell. Most companies don't take kindly to that.

Now, I could do what they have done and just shoot from the hip and speculate based on an opinion, but that's not my style. To make something that folks can rely on requires research and facts. I prefer to be better grounded, which is why I have never done an industry-comparison list for the consumer. I can compare and contrast the brands that I sell, that's easy, but not wide enough a spectrum to create a viable list of makers.

I will however, be glad to take your donations of furniture from other makers here at my store and tear them down back by the dumpster, and report back. They need be identifiable and less than 5 years old!

Well, Duane, as usual, you clarify that which most of us (meaning, especially me) have no clue!

TXCajun

[drcollie]

This is the type of thing that Consumer Reports does well, and has the budget to buy a piece from each maker and take them apart in their lab. I don't subscribe to them, but those of you that do should contact them and ask them to do a report on leather sofas and mention some of the brands you want to see. Enough of their members ask about it, perhaps they would consider doing it.

[Asomer]

This is the type of thing that Consumer Reports does well, and has the budget to buy a piece from each maker and take them apart in their lab. I don't subscribe to them, but those of you that do should contact them and ask them to do a report on leather sofas and mention some of the brands you want to see. Enough of their members ask about it, perhaps they would consider doing it.

I don't know if they've ever done as narrowed of a consensus study covering JUST leather furniture, but I'm fairly certain they've done best of furniture studies in the past. The problem with those studies, is they're too broad & cover just about every maker. So, you're still left walking away confused.

Duane's right tho: it never hurts to just ask. If enough of their readers do, they very well be inclined to undergo a benchmarking study of just leather furniture...the worst that can happen, is they say "no."

[Asomer]

Duane,

Any updates from H&M regarding their next steps with Leather Shoppes? Will they issue a cease & desist & that'll be it? Or, is this a bit more serious & involved than simply issuing a sternly written letter?

[Asomer]

I think I know where they are having this made. About three years ago I was at the High Point Market and went to some of the 'fringe' areas of the Market that are several blocks from center core, where the mediocre and ho-hum brands are located in showrooms. There was a small maker with a showroom that had a H&M Sundance knock-off among other things. I went in and looked at it, and of course was immediately being told "This is just as good as the Hancock and Moore brand at hundreds of dollars less". While he was talking I was looking all over the piece and it has so many flaws and sloppy execution that I started chuckling. Not one to be shy I replied "I'm a dealer for Hancock and Moore and believe me when I tell you that you're pretty far from being 'just as good as them'." And that ended the conversation and I left. If it happens to be that maker they are presenting as their brand, then its a far cry from the original.

This leather market is very broad, with many makers and many retailers all vying for the consumer's dollar. There are good pieces out there, and plenty of bad ones. Ethical dealers and those that are not. I don't know anything about Leather Shoppes other than I don't agree with their 'ratings' and other than that I have no interaction with them or opinion, either good or bad. It seems to me however, they did not use good judgment with this 'Sundance' clone and certainly their webmaster didn't do them any favors pulling down what appears to be photos from the H&M website to use on their site. That's a really good way to trigger legal action and get sued, and I know as a dealer I would not want Century Brands coming after me. It also virtually assures they will never be a dealer for those brands - people have long memories in this industry.

I'm curious: why'd you chuckle & ONLY say what you did? Why didn't you point out the areas that were way off? As knowledgeable as you are about H&M, I'd think the temptation to point out their flaws would've been very high...however, sometimes NOT telling a shady seller how they could better their product can be just as satisfying

I'm sure that maker was dying to know what he could do to "fix" his Sundance so it'd be closer to what he's attempting at passing off as the original! He'd have left market, gone back to the factory to tweak his Sundance so that by next market he'd be in a more secure standing.

[drcollie]

I won't get involved in this beyond notifying H&M of your findings, what will probably happen is that will just disappear from that web site in the not too distant future.

On your other point, why would I want to help someone doing a knock-off of a brand I support and sell to correct their piece? No reason to....

[Asomer]

I won't get involved in this beyond notifying H&M of your findings, what will probably happen is that will just disappear from that web site in the not too distant future.

On your other point, why would I want to help someone doing a knock-off of a brand I support and sell to correct their piece? No reason to....

Exactly! Lol, I kinda answered my own question on that one

[Asomer]

Duane, et all: just wanted to keep everyone up to date that as of just a few minutes ago Leather Shoppes's "Sundance" series is still posted on their site with the same pictures as before...

[Jenny]

H&M could easily have it removed by sending a DMCA takedown notice to their website host. I am assuming that the photos belong to H&M, either because they were taken by an employee or by a professional photographer under a work-for-hire contract. It sounds weird but if the goal is to have it taken off the web, using the copyrights attached to the photos would be the fastest and cheapest way by far.

The great thing about the DMCA is that you don't have to hire a lawyer or go to court, any average person can do their own request off an online template so long as they are the copyright owner. Many ISP and hosts have their own form you can fill out

[wisejd]

Within the Leather Shoppe's web site, under the "American Heritage" Brand nearly all their Sofas and Chairs are direct copies of Hancock and Moore designs. Perhaps the industry has this phenomena often and the originating manufacturers of the designs just don't want to spend their time and money in court. Traditional H&M customers aren't exactly the type to be happy with a copy product.