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Thread: Leather color issue on new H&M sofa

  1. #1
    Redhead Guest

    Default Leather color issue on new H&M sofa

    This may be more appropriate on the Problem Solver forum but this forum seems very active with Hancock and Moore knowledge so I thought I would try here. After much homework my husband and I ordered a H-M Tavern sofa in March through a local dealer. We had seen the sofa on the H-M website and liked the leather shown in tha photo. My husband called H-M and they sent out a sample of the leather shown. It was Imperial Whiskey Burnished, class III. The sample was beautiful and just what we wanted so that was what was ordered.

    Fast forward to July. Sofa is delivered and is a beautiful, quality piece of furnitute. But the color is WAY off. Think a cup of coffee with cream vs. a cup of black coffee. We understand about glazing and it appears the glazer had a VERY heavy hand. We are very unhappy with the appearance of the sofa---it is not what we ordered.

    We have gone back to the dealer we purchased through. He put us in touch with the local H-M rep who came to our house and agreed the color was quite "off". But he states when he contacted H-M there was nothing that could be done. We had suggested a range from replacement of the sofa to some sort of monetary compensation if we kept the sofa as delivered.

    Our next step will be a letter to Jack Glasheen but I admit we are very disappointed with how the problem has been handled so far and are not optimisic about Mr Glasheen's response. Sadly, one of the reasons we went with H-M was because of the their reputation for quality and pride in their products.

    Very long way of saying, has anyone had a similar situation? Any advice on how we should proceed? Thanks

  2. #2
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    Burnished and Hand-Antiqued leathers are the sticky wickets in this business. When they do these, they actually and make the furniture completely, then send it over to the finish room where the artisan literally dyes it on the spot - then glazes it, and finally goes through all the hand-antiquing/burnish process. You cannot rely on the samples to be accurate. They are approximations only. Naturally if you ordered a brown one and it turned out blue, that would be a mistake, but otherwise they are an product of the artist doing the work. Just as you cannot commission a painter to create a portrait a certain way, neither can you expect the same from a Burnished or Hand-Antiqued piece. The disclaimers are all over the leather, and on the leather descriptors in the catalog. H&M will stand by the fact that they properly disclosed that on the samples and descriptors, and as such will not do anything unless of course it is defective - which is not the same as color variance.

    Here's how the system works. H&M's customer is not you, its the dealer. They service the dealer and as such for you to go to the trouble to contact Jack at H&M will result in little more than him calling the dealer and telling them they have an upset customer. You are the dealer's customer. Its up to the selling dealer to handle your complaints and assess the situation.

    H&M customer > Dealer
    Dealer's customer > Consumer.

    A lot of folks don't understand this and it causes confusion...and rightly so.

    This is why it's critical to know whom you are doing business with. There are good dealers out there, and a lot of bad ones. A bad dealer pushes it off onto H&M, or the Sales Rep, or simply time delays you and waits you out. A lot of people give up after a few weeks and then simply move on, you might be surprised to learn that a number of customer issues are handled in that 'wait them out' manner. Other times, the dealers themselves do not understand the relationship, and try to throw the hot potato to the manufacturer and be rid of it. Then you wind up in the endless loop like you are in now. No one willing to help you out.

    I'll say this as honestly as I can, though you may not like the answer. You don't have a defective product, you have a cosmetic issue which comes down to coloration variance. It's not H&M's problem as they have the disclaimers on the hides and the dealer should have informed you of the possibility of the wide variance. I make sure that any time a customer of mine orders burnished or hand-antiqued, they know that its an artisan product. I'm willing to wager your selling dealer did not inform you of that.

    This is a problem for the selling dealer to resolve. Its at their discretion as a goodwill issue. They are not required to do anything either (legally) but its good business to try to do something. In situations like you are in I do exactly what you suggested. I normally offer to take the sofa back and then it goes on my sales floor, and you get a re-order chance (but not in the same leather, and only one re-order opportunity so choose carefully on the second go-round) or if you're some distance away and there is lots of freight dollars involved, perhaps a rebate on the piece.

    Rather than focusing on H&M, go back to your selling dealer and speak with the owner about it. Don't threaten - no one likes to be threatened - but tell him/her how totally dissatisfied you are with your purchase. if you want a re-order then ask for that. If you want some $$$ off, then name a number. Be clear, don't ask them to come up with a solution, you decide what would make you reasonably happy and tell them what you want. If you ask for money off, name a figure and realize that stores don't make that much profit, so 1/2 price is out of the question. A few hundred dollars is more appropriate. And if they agree to it, realize they are doing it for customer goodwill - not because they have to - and buy from them in the future/say good things about them to your neighbors. If you have bought from them in the past make sure the owner knows that as well. Repeat customers are the most valuable of all.

    Good luck!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
    Redhead Guest

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    Wow, thank you so much for the quick and thorough response and the education. Even though you are correct that it isn't what we were hoping for. Now I'm a little annoyed with the dealer (who we have not bought from before but who has an excellent local reputation) since he certainly didn't own up to responsibility and expedited passing us on to H & M.

    Think we will regroup and figure our next steps----and it is a beautiful, beautiful sofa. if only the color was right!!

  4. #4
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    Its important to speak to the owner, or as high up as you can go in the store, and tell them what exactly it would take to make you a satisfied customer. Don't make them guess, and don't let them stall you for days with "We have to contact the manufacturer". Its up to the store owner to take it back and let you re-order, or give you cash back, and his choice alone.

    Also, the color cannot be lightened or modified, so don't let anyone fool around with that kind of talk. It is what it is........

    Good luck!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #5
    Odd I/O Guest

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    Duane, is it possible to order a cutting for approval? Or order samples done by the different artisans that do this sort of thing and then select the artisan whose work you like the best? Or do large colour variances occur even if done by the same artisan?

  6. #6
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    You can order a cutting for approval, but its as worthless as asking that portrait painter to make you up a sample board of the colors to be used.

    There is a lot of 'art' in burnished and hand-antiqued samples, and you have to have an adventuresome spirit to buy those products. Sort of 'Surprise me!' They will be what they will be.

    I have a burnished chair on my sales floor as well as a hand-antiqued one and they are terrific. Certainly they are not for everyone, or any customer who likes color-matches. There's a leap of faith in ordering these and I don't advise them to many customers who are the worrying kind, or the type that have to have their purses, shoes and belts match exactly <g>. If I see a customer taking a swatch from the front of the store to the windows to see how much the shade changes in various light condiitons, that person is NOT a candidate for this kind of leather. A smart dealer knows how to read his customers and helps them determine the best leather based on whats important to them.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redhead View Post

    Think we will regroup and figure our next steps----and it is a beautiful, beautiful sofa. if only the color was right!!
    Can you take a photo of it and attach it? Also the color you ordered it in? I'd like to see it......
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #8
    Redhead Guest

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    I'l do my best in the photo department---I am not the most "literate" in the area of digital photography. but I am happy to give it a shot!

  9. #9
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    I have to ask since I couldn't tell for sure but anytime before you purchased the sofa did the salesperson alert you to the fact the Sofa may not match the sample and if so how much difference were you told?

    Duane is right the Dealer is the company that should handle this - a good dealer will be willing to work with you and try to make things right. The dealership management/owner should try to do the right thing but if they don't seem willing to do anything except apologize I would send a letter to H&M saying how you are disappointed in the color of your new furniture and also the dealers handling of everything.

    Good luck and remember to follow up on things without getting angry at the other people.

  10. #10
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    I wanted to follow up on this with some close up photos of Burnished leather and how it performs. These photos are of a Jessica Charles chair in Hancock and Moore Weston Cane Burnished that is on my sales floor. If you look at the detail photos, you will see that part of the process is using a hand-wiped glaze on the hide, and it is heavier in certain places and very light in the folds of the leather and around the buttons. This is NOT the hide to choose if you are a perfectionist, but those with an artistic flair or a love of handmade things will appreciate it. They vary considerably, and actually soften up and get marvelous wear areas with use. Still - not for everyone, so if you like things neat and squared away all the time, a burnished leather is not for you.
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    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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