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Thread: Kitchen chairs

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria VA
    Posts
    15,890

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    Well, when you see that screw in the joint, that to me is indicative that they have had problems in the past with joint tightness, as least that's my personal takeaway on it. If the chair is correctly assembled, it should not need that. Most leg-socket designs should have the leg going through the sear and then pinned from the top in a bore and wedge construction, that's the best way. If it's just a hole drilled into the seat and the leg hammered into the hold via a mallet and a glue bond, that glue bond will eventually let go and that chair will wiggle. The single screw to me is so they can have a little insurance on that, but anytime you drill a hole in the wood and run a screw into it like that - in a stress area - it weakens the wood and you have the chance of a split in the wood or leg failure.

    It's interesting they offer a lifetime guarantee with that construction. Questions I would ask :

    * If the chair fails at the leg or spindle joint, is it repaired or replaced?
    * Who pays shipping in the event of a failure and replacement / repair?
    * Is the lifetime warranty through the dealer or the maker?

    Myself - and this is just me - I would not buy a chair with a screw run through in a joint. That's what you see in chairs that have kluge repairs, not brand new ones. However, if you really like the chairs - keep on investigating and asking questions on them. They are machine made chairs, not handcrafted and that mortise and tenon they use is rounded for fast fitment, not squared off and pinned like in a correct hand-made chair. It's all price/value however.....to me at $ 600 per, I don't see the value.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  2. #12
    QualityQuest Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    Duane,

    That's incredibly valuable feedback. Thank you again for so generously sharing your expertise. I'll definitely pass on those chairs.

    Are there any manufacturers that come to mind that offer sound/proper build quality in the $400-800 price range? I'm looking for something in cherry (or maybe maple with a cherry stain) that has an upholstered seat option.

    You mentioned Palettes by Winesburg elsewhere on the forum, but I know you decided not to become a dealer. Also, the local Palettes of Winesburg dealer I spoke with told me they would upholster right over the fabric that came on the chairs if I chose another fabric. That was just puzzling to me.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    563

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    If that is your price range, why not just go with Stickley? A known good brand with a good reputation for quality construction. Has a few different styles including options for that 'mission' look if that is what you like. Good cherry color options. Has been around forever so you can expect them to be there for warranty work.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria VA
    Posts
    15,890

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    It's really difficult to recommend a chair per se, because there are thousands of makers and you have to spin one upside down to see the construction on them. There are a lot of mediocre chairs out there that are neither bad - nor particularly good, a few really poorly made ones, and a few more that are really well made. Learning construction is your best tool and then looking at how they are built (in person). You don't always need the best chair, but you want to avoid ones that are the worst.

    Chairs are complex to build - it doesn't look like they would be but they are. Additionally they are one of the few pieces of furniture that is a true stress item, where there can be 200 lbs on them scooting it back and forth on the legs, when you think about it that's a lot to ask out of a piece of wood that's assembled together. A nightstand or chest of drawers by example has no where near the stresses placed on them that chairs do, and they are simpler to build as well. The problem then gets down to economics - customers don't want to pay $ 1,000 for a chair and a properly made one will cost every bit of that, or more. We're talking a correctly made mortise and tenon chair, cross-pinned and locked. So the chairmaker has to get the price down and they do that by changing joinery methods and shortcuts. The result is most chairs on the market today that are palatable to the customer's checkbook are $ 300 to $ 600 each, and they will be a machine tenon or doweled joinery with simple glue sockets. and less complex bends, etc. These chairs will likely have 1/3 the lifespan of the true M&T chair, which can go for generations.

    Chairs are also labor intensive to make, so the end result is many are imported, because 5 hours per chair of shop time Asian labor is $ 25, whereas in the USA it's $ 200. That all goes into the price of a chair.

    FYI the strongest wood chair ever made is a properly American Windsor done with correct 3-wood bore and wedge construction. They are light, sturdy and the triangulation of the design means they are far stronger than most. You can still use 250-year-old made American windsors today in daily use.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #15
    QualityQuest Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    Such great and useful information. Thanks for all you do, Duane.

    FYI - one of the most highly regarded chairmakers in the field is Peter Galbert:

    https://www.petergalbert.com/

  6. #16
    QualityQuest Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    Danw99 - thanks for the suggestion.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria VA
    Posts
    15,890

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    For many years The Keeping Room sold more properly-made American Windsor chairs than any store in the USA. We sold to several museums and historic properties in the USA including the Smithsonian, Historic Mt Vernon, and even the chairs used in the Mel Gibson movie "The Patriot" came from my store. In it's heyday, we sold appx 2,600 per year from a variety of small American shops. I was always in the Freightliner going to pickup another load in New England or Ohio, etc. Even today I don't need a GPS or a Road Map to drive around in that part of the world as I made so many trips as far north as New Hampshire to the various workshops the roads are all committed to memory. I could get 220 to 226 chairs on one load in the truck, every one blanket-wrapped by yours truly. Styles changes and tastes changed, and no one wants them now (styles are always cyclic and come back after being out of fashion). Last year I think I sold a set of (6) windsors and that was it, the year before maybe (12). We changed with the times and moved into leather furniture with the same quest for excellence as we did American case goods and chairs.

    I know the market will come roaring back for traditional American made "Colonial" furniture and it will when the Tri-Centennial approaches in 2176...it always does (1876 / 1976). Just wait and see. <g>
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #18
    QualityQuest Guest

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    Ha! 2176 is right around the corner from a cosmological and even geological perspective!

    I spoke with a furniture appraiser about 18 months ago. He told me "I don't care if someone paid $20,000 for a Chippendale style dining set made by a top manufacturer. They'd be lucky to sell it for a tiny fraction of that because nobody wants it right now unless it's a truly valuable antique. And in many cases you almost have to pay someone just to take it if you need to get rid of it. What people want now is Mid-century modern, but in the next cycle nobody will probably want that."

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria VA
    Posts
    15,890

    Default Re: Kitchen chairs

    That's exactly correct. I get calls weekly from my old customers in the 80's and 90's wanting to sell me back their hand-made furniture they bought thirty years ago. I don't want to be a used furniture store so I decline unless its a rare piece that I want for my own home, then I buy it for myself (Still on the lookout for the Peter Franklin Continuous Armchairs we sold in the late 80's - he was only in business a year or so, if anyone has one - call me).

    I watched a custom Chippendale Dining Set we sold for around $ 22K in solid tiger maple (Double Pedestal Table and eight chairs) go on EBAY for peanuts. I bid on it, because this was hand-made by the late Doug St. Clair and though I already have a set in my house by him, the high bid (mine) was $ 1,800 for the whole set. AMAZING. When I contacted the buyer on EBAY to pay, they told me they had sold it over the phone for $ 2K and I was out of luck.

    This is where you want to buy if you don't have to be "in style" and can buck the trend. So much really highly-made furniture like this out there and its bringing nothing on re-sale.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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