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Thread: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

  1. #1
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    Question Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    Hello,

    I'm brand new to the forum, and I'm shopping around for a quality sofa with quality cushions.

    Before joining the forum today, I did a lot of research on the forum on the subject of foam density and firmness. After reading over a lot of postings, I'm more confused more than before. :-(

    In particular, I'm interested in the Qualux Ultra foam.

    In one post, drcollie posted:
    The density of the foam [Qualux] is 16 oz., then 21 oz, 28 oz, 36 oz, 44 oz and so on up to 90 oz.

    But, I thought foam density is expressed in lb/cu ft. What do the above numbers in oz mean?

    One foam suppler, Foamite, lists on their website the following grades for Qualux Ultra.

    Q11
    Q26
    Q31
    Q41

    The 2-digit numbers is supposed to indicate the firmness (ILD), but no density is given. What are the corresponding densities for these different grades?

    In another post, berta posted:
    The foam specs for Hancock & Moore cushions are as follows:

    Standard: 2.3 density with a target 17 lb. ILD.

    Ultra-down : 2.5 density with a target 17 lb. ILD

    Extra Firm Standard: 2.5 density with a target 27 lb. ILD. ( we can order cushions as firm as 31 , 41, and 55 lb. ILD’s but the 41 and 55 lb. ILD will be very firm)

    Where do the 17 and 27 ILD numbers come from. They don't seem to correlate with the Q11, Q26, Q31, and Q41 designations.

    Can someone perhaps help me clear up this confusion once and for all?

    If someone can unify all the above numbers into one consistent way of interpreting foam density and firmness for Qualux Ultra foam, that would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you,
    Peter

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    With Hancock & Moore we use the "Q" values when ordering cushion core firmness. 18 oz is standard, then it goes up by 3 each step. 21 oz would be the next step, then 24 oz after that. Each step up is about 8% more firm. I do no recommend anyone go over 24 oz, however, unless they are very heavy (over 350 lb).

    That's the best answer I can give you at this time, any more detail would require making phone calls and everything in North Carolina is currently shut down.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    drcollie,

    Thanks very much for your prompt reply! Yes, I found out all stores are shut down due to covid-19, so I thought I would try to get my questions answered on this forum. So, I'm very grateful that you were so accommodating.

    For the "Q" values, you seem to be using the unit of oz (ounce) to specify firmness. But, everything I've been reading seem to use lb (pound) as the basic unit for firmness. That discrepancy is causing me a great deal of confusion. Can you perhaps clarify the use of oz and lb?

    I'm trying my best to understand the technical jargon, so please forgive me for being somewhat slow to grasp the concepts.

    Thank you very much,

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    Jeff Frank who owns Simplicity Sofas and sometimes posts here as well, has this on his blog you can read.

    https://furnitureblog.simplicitysofa...-and-firmness/

    As you read through what Jeff says, it's worth noting the how he addresses the cost of replacement cores. Hancock and Moore is the only company I know of that will send you free seat and back core replacements without even a shipping charge for as long as you own the piece (original owner only, must be registered or have proof of purchase). That's worth hundreds of dollars over the life of the piece.

    As I mentioned in the prior post, I would have to talk to the cushion experts at Hancock and Moore to get you a more detailed answer (and am glad to do that), but they are currently closed.
    Last edited by drcollie; 04-11-2020 at 10:11 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    drcollie,

    Thanks very much for the wonderful write-up by Jeff Frank on cushion density and firmness. However, it still didn't quite answer my question about the disparities and inconsistencies in density and firmness numbers. After doing some more research, I think I've finally found the answer.

    First, I found the website of the manufacturer of Qualux:
    https://carpenter.com/us/en/furnitur...ication/qualux

    According to this page, "Qualux is available in densities from 1.5 to 1.8 PCF (lbs/cu. ft.). Qualux Ultra has minimum densities of up to 3.25 PCF and is available in firmnesses from 7 to 70 IFD."

    First, I had originally thought Foamite's designation of firmness, QXX, is unique to Qualux and considered to be the standard designation for all furniture manufacturers and foam suppliers. Apparently, it's not; rather it's used only by Foamite.

    Second, I had thought Qualux was available only in discrete units of density and firmness. For example, Q11 means firmness of 11 PCF; Q26 means firmness of 26 PCF; Q31 means firmness of 31 PCF, etc., so anything inbetween these values are not valid and not available. Apparently, that's not the case, either. As the webpage states, both density and firmness are available in any value within the specified range.

    In the case of Foamite, they happened to use QXX to designate firmness. They offer four different firmness levels: 11 PCF, 26 PCF, 31 PCF, and 41 PCF.

    However, some other foam suppliers or furniture makers probably will probably use some other descriptor for firmness or, most likely, NOT use any alphanumeric descriptor for firmness; they simply use the number by itself. In addition, they will most likely offer slightly different firmness levels, such as 16, 17, 8, or whatever other value based on their own preferences.

    In the previous example given by Berta, she says that for Hancock and Moore, they offer the following:

    Standard: 2.3 density with a target 17 lb. ILD (firmness)
    Extra Firm Standard: 2.5 density with a target 27 lb. ILD

    If the above interpretation is correct, then that clears up my confusion about the disparities and inconsistencies in the density and firmness numbers you see from various foam suppliers and furniture makers.

    If my interpretation is still not correct, perhaps you or something else can correct me.

    Thank you,

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    You have GOT to be an Engineer by trade.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    You have GOT to be an Engineer by trade.
    Should I take that as a compliment? :-)

    By the way, what's the standard or typical cushion thickness for the Hancock and Moore sofas?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    There really is not a uniform standard on thicknesses, it really is determined by the styling of the piece.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    I'm looking at the following models:

    http://www.hancockandmoore.com/Produ...as/Casper-Sofa

    http://www.hancockandmoore.com/Produ...ofas/Lena-Sofa

    http://www.hancockandmoore.com/Produ...storation-Sofa

    Any idea what the seat cushion thickness is for these particular models?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Major Confusion Over Density and Firmness Numbers

    Sorry, that is not a published specification and I don't have those models in the store to measure. 4" is probably a good guess.
    Last edited by drcollie; 04-13-2020 at 10:56 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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