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Thread: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

  1. #1

    Default Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Hello -
    Posting this question as not sure what is causing the issue or if anything can be done. We purchased 3 pieces from the Ricki set - Sofa, recliner and chair - about 20 months ago. We had a whole host of issues with delivery and also had to have the recliner replaced for poor workmanship. Working with Stickley (where we purchased) and they have been very helpful once we got the right person!

    So anyway...just the other day we are looking closely at the furniture and we noticed a problem with the leather. The leather appears to be peeling or fading or something in multiple places on the recliner and the sofa. Can someone explain what is happening and is that normal? Any suggestions on what we should do? We've reached out to Stickley again, but the person that had been so helpful is no longer with them.

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    It's helpful to know the name of the leather used, and where this is happening on the pieces. (Seat? Arms? Back? Side Panels?) Also have you put anything on the leather during your ownership other than either soap/water or the Leather Solutions care kits (only recommended product from H&M). Close up photos like that its hard to determine the size of the damage, always put a coin next to the damaged area as a size reference and take a series of photos that show the area in relationship to the entire piece.

    This looks like a finished leather (Juno Dove?) and what you are seeing is a topcoat loss. This can be caused from use, a chemical reaction from using non-approved products on the hide, or the topcoat could be defective in this batch of hides. If this is limited to seat cushions tops only, or backs, then the casings can be sent the Hancock and Moore for evaluation and repair/replacement. If the areas are widespread they will send the hides out for a lab test to determine if non-approved products were used on the leather - and if so may decline to repair at no charge. If the lab tests are good, then they *may* replace or restore the leather and in most cases will. Your selling dealer needs to take charge of this and work with Ann or Emily at Hancock and Moore. If its just the casings then its pretty easy and can be done by shipping those back and forth. If the entire piece(s) then they have to be returned via truck.

    Contact the store manager at your place of purchase for assistance. Good luck
    Last edited by drcollie; 1 Day Ago at 09:11 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Thank you very much for your response Mr. Collie. It is the Juno Dove leather. We absolutely love the furniture set, so this is so concerning to us! I'm adding updated pictures - the most affected areas are the headrest on the recliner and part of the footrest on the recliner - it is mostly on the 'first" pad, which sits lower than the main rest, though in the picture you can see the loss moving to the main footrest as well. We are also seeing this on the piping / seams on the sofa. I've read a lot of your responses on leather wear and care and it is very helpful to understand. It does seem like this is very early to have this wear?

    Separately - we are checking with our cleaning company to see if they have used anything on the furniture that may have caused the issue - I will advise further. Lastly, the furniture is sitting in an inside room and gets absolutely no direct sunlight.

    We are still waiting to hear back from our Stickley corporate. Will continue to chase.

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Juno Dove is a finished, or protected leather This is why I absolutely detest the word "Protected" leather that the industry uses, because that gives the impression these finished leathers are tougher and stronger - indeed armored - when in fact they are simply painted leather. We all know that all paint is sacrificial, its a coating that sloughs off over time, chips, and peels. It does it on your house trim, on your tennis shoes, and even your car. Add to the fact that the leather is flexing and paint prefers to be on a non-flexing surface and you see the dilemma. It's all going to show wear and come off over a period of time, the question them becomes how long is reasonable to expect this? If you were to tell me this set was fifteen years old, I'd say it was normal and to be expected, but at 20 months of age this gets into a gray zone, you should not be seeing this at that age in my experience. Would your selling dealer be correct in denying this? Yes, because Hancock and Moore doesn't warrant the covers and this could be just heavy use or an improper chemical used on the surface accelerating that issue.

    However, I just had a customer experience the same thing on the same leather and his sofa is about a year and half old, it was all on the seat casings. I like to take care of my customers because they spent money with me and I make a profit off the sale (surprise!), so what I do in this instance is have him box up the casing and return them to Hancock and Moore where they usually sew in new panels to the pieces, then ship them back. All he has to pay for is the UPS shipping to North Carolina. I pick up the bill from Hancock and Moore because it's the right thing to do. It's the decent thing to do. If there's a $ 200 charge to do so, I write that off as goodwill and the customer doesn't see the bill. Now, I'm not going to do this time and time again, but its not always about the money to me, integrity and trust are more important. But this is just my store, and its a gray area, not a true warranty item in 95 % of all paint loss issues. Only a very few have a true defective topcoat. I suspect if you have a cleaning company, whatever they are spraying on the furniture may be accelerating that paint loss.

    What I would suggest you do is get to the Stickley Store Manager directly, explain nicely what is going on and ask if he will return these sections to H&M for restoration or at least do the paperwork on them so YOU can send them in via UPS. These are all segments that can be removed or unbolted. Hancock and Moore doesn't ship things back that are not fixed, so once they get there they will be taken care of, then shipped back to you or the dealer. There may or may not be a bill. Remember there is no specific warranty on covers, so politeness and calmness go a long ways to getting things done, the raging/demanding customer rarely gets goodwill gestures.

    The bulk of leather furniture sales are in finished leathers, but I still buy pure aniline hides myself (and recommend them) as the leather is dyed, not painted on. Too many clients are scared off the "Unprotected" label on pure anilines, but they don't ever have a peeling topcoat because they are dyed through and through. Yes, they can sun fade quicker (you can control that) and absorb some stains (also controllable) but generally age better than finished leathers in my experience.

    Good news is everything you have is repairable / fixable, It's just a matter of getting the sections back to North Carolina and who is paying for what. Also, ask for a small bottle of touch-up from your dealer, its free of charge and you will eventually need it as the welt trim at the edge of the cushion is always going to be losing color due to friction.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Yeah I would guess the cleaning company is wiping it down with something. Whoever is using the recliner the most does their bare skin sit on the footrest a lot?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Thank you again Mr. Collie for your guidance and the instruction on materials, processes etc. I'm probably going to try and make a store visit tomorrow to see if I can connect with the manager in person. I appreciate the guidance on approach - that is definitely my style

    We did check with the cleaning company as they come out every other Thursday and yesterday was their day. I really thought that was a possible culprit, but apparently not the case. They are very good and indicated that wood and leather get only a dry microfiber dust cloth unless otherwise directed.

    One other general question - we did purchase a furniture insurance service "Guardian Protection" - but the more I read the more I am thinking they won't be much help in this type situation?

    Dan - thanks for chipping in too - The part of the footrest that is showing the most loss actually sits below the main pad and is rarely touched. It's a very strange place to have wear, frankly.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    The "Guardian Protection" plan you purchased through your selling dealer is something they can help you with, as they collect a portion of the plan cost. In the past, it has been very difficult for some consumers to get Guardian to stand behind their warranty, which is why I don't sell it in my store. I don't know if things have changed recently (perhaps for the better?) however I know they have a history of finger-pointing and get the client into one of those things where they will claim the manufacturer's warranty is applicable, not theirs, or tell you the dealer must make application for recourse, etc. Then they usually pro-rate the warranty based on time. You would have to carefully read your documents, this is what they have on their website, and nowhere does it say anything about topcoat loss on the leather. That tells me they will send you back to the dealer in your situation. However, your documents you received with the plan will go into greater detail on it.

    Of course, the easy way to do this is get a couple of toddlers with permanent magic markers and have them go to town on the pieces and draw on every surface. Because that does NOT come out and that's covered under their warranty, the pieces have to be re-leathered (Just kidding! By the time they pro-rate 20 months, it could still cost you).


    Premium coverages are available for fabric, leather, and wood furniture, and may include:*
    Food or beverage stains on fabric, leather and wood.
    Stains caused by grass, crayons, grease, ballpoint pen ink, and cosmetics on upholstered furniture.
    Rips, tears, burns and punctures on fabric or leather upholstery.
    Liquid rings, heat marks and gouges on wood and stone.
    Glass and mirror breakage.
    At Guardian, we recognize that customers want two things when they make a furniture purchase: they want to protect their furniture investment, and they want to maintain the beautiful appearance of their new furniture as long as possible. Guardian's Furniture Protection Plans and advanced Furniture Care Products will help ensure your peace of mind for years to come.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  8. #8

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Glad I found this thread - my Ricki sofa in Juno Soft Blue is doing the same thing at two years old. No sun exposure, only used the cleaning kit that came with it every few months and it doesn't see a significant amount of use. Zero issues with the recliner purchased at same time.

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Wow! sorry you both are dealing with that.It isn't something I'd expect from a company like H&K. Opened my eyes to the fact that stuff happens even on high end. I'll be curious how they handle it. Good luck.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore Ricki sofa / recliner leather issues

    Quote Originally Posted by jogo1 View Post
    Wow! sorry you both are dealing with that.It isn't something I'd expect from a company like H&K. Opened my eyes to the fact that stuff happens even on high end. I'll be curious how they handle it. Good luck.
    Before this thread spirals downward, it's important to note that no manufacturer I know of warranties the covers either leather or fabric, and the simple reason is they have no control over the use of the piece. These are considered cosmetic issues and I don't think you will find guarantees in most consumer items such as car interiors or the clothing, either. Here's the warranty policy I have posted here for H&M and B-Y and this is standard in the industry, it excludes all covers.

    http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...arranty-Policy

    On rare occasions there may be a defective hide, but that's VERY rare. Last time I saw a defective hide issue was fourteen years ago. Any fixes or helps with repairs is goodwill on the part of the dealer / manufacturer and it's handled on a case-by-case basis. So the answer to this is No, they are not warrantied or guaranteed. So there is really nothing to "curious how they handle it", because it's clearly stated in the warranty. Ask before you buy, and if you can find a manufacturer that does warranty the cover against cosmetics please advise who that might be.

    I will try to help out my customers with cosmetic issues from time to time if I feel they are justified (this is at my sole discretion) depending on age of the piece, severity, cost to fix, etc. The Keeping Room is not Nordstrom's so at best it's a partial assistance.
    Last edited by drcollie; 1 Day Ago at 08:46 AM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

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