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Thread: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

  1. #1

    Unhappy Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    Hello,
    After with a few trips to furniture stores combined with doing significant research on this forum and elsewhere, we decided to go with H and M Austin High Back Sofa and Chair with matching ottomans. We upgraded to aniline leather (Capri) after reading that Town & Country program leathers (especially Document) were prone to chipping finishes and friction wear.
    {order placed 2/22/20}
    While at the furniture store the Sundance Chair and Ottoman in Portfolio Claret caught our eyes (a market design sample), so those came home with us.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The Austin pieces were delivered on 5/18/20. I pointed out some concerns to the delivery guys who took photos of areas on the sofa and chair for the dealer to address. Several areas where the leather looked dry and flaky, rub marks and small scratches on the sofa, plus a large scar/scrape on the chair. Is this normally how Capri Butternut and Capri Bordeaux would look?
    Click image for larger version. 

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    See more photos on my flickr site:
    https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUm6Gzh Photos day delivered

    https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUm8Pbp Photos of the 6 pieces

    With Covid shutdowns and illnesses it took a while for the dealer to get back to us with a reply. She said that those places in the leather were a natural part of the type of leather we chose, however H&M would ship the sofa back to be repaired if we would like them to do so. Since it had taken so long to receive the items and Covid shutdowns were extended, we had no idea how many months we’d be without living room furniture, so decided against return.

    As the months have passed additional issues with the sofa and ottoman are making us question if the correct leather was used or if there is a serious quality issue happening.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    More photos of the deterioration can be found here:
    https://flic.kr/s/aHsmUmxpb3

    This kind of deterioration doesn’t seem possible in 9 months. The sofa is the piece that gets utilized the least. Both of the chairs are my husband’s go-to for watching TV, and we typically do the majority of that in the lower room where the Sundance chair is located. No pets or children are on the furniture. We’ve had very few visitors. No one is allowed to put feet on the ottomans with shoes still on, yet the Capri Butternut is starting to flake exposing light spots. My husband and I are tall, but not obese. I wipe all the pieces off regularly with a damp soft cloth, (occasionally including 1 drop of Ivory in a bottle of water to spray the cloth). I have not yet conditioned them with Leather Solutions that Duane has recommended. Neither of the chairs nor matching ottomans are showing signs of wear. Is there something we’ve missed in maintenance and care? No instructions were received from H and M or the dealer.

    I was under the impression that aniline leather was dyed all the way through the hide, yet what is showing is light colored, like a cheap leather.
    The H and M site states the following for the leathers coverings on our pieces:

    Capri Butternut and Capri Bordeaux
    Class 4
    Unprotected
    Capri is a full top grain aniline leather with a hand rubbed effect and has no protective finish. Capri is made on an excellent selection of South German hides.

    Portfolio Clare
    t
    Class 3
    Protected
    Portfolio is a top grain aniline dyed leather with a protective finish. Portfolio has a hand-rubbed finish for a two-tone effect. Portfolio is a slightly heavier weight leather with an excellent hand.

    In my early teens my parents purchased a leather sofa, chair and ottoman in a local furniture store. They don’t recall the name brand. They’ve never wiped them down or treated them with anything. My parents, siblings, and our children have always just plopped down on those pieces with no concern. Besides needing interior cushions replaced, they look fantastic for being over 45 years old.

    Do I go back to the dealer raising a red flag that the incorrect leather was used or that there is a quality issue? Looking for guidance on how best to handle this situation.


    P.S. Sorry about some of the images not being upright. First post here and couldn't find out to align them correctly.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Alexandria VA
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    14,498

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    Sorry, I don't want to comment on how to interact with your selling dealer when you have an ongoing issue such as this, however I would encourage you to contact the store owner and express your concerns to them to find a solution. Good luck.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  3. #3

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    Thanks Duane

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Columbus, OH
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    460

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    That must be so disappointing, sorry you are dealing with it. The other photos you posted on Flickr make it almost look like there was a step missed in the finishing or something. Not sure how that is possible but if it were me I would want it shipped back and fixed or replaced, even if I had to deal with a rented couch or something for a couple of months while I waited.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    Thank you Danw99, I appreciate your comments. Yes, disappointed. Definitely not the quality I expected especially from H and M. I'm guessing that even a really cheaply made leather sofa would last more than 9 months. Thankfully, the dealer we purchased from has a very good reputation, as does H and M, so hoping it will be dealt with appropriately. We'll make due with other furniture, but since it took nearly 3 months to receive I'm guessing with Covid's impact on logistics and raw materials that we will be in for a much longer wait. Glad that the other four pieces are fine - though I still don't know if the scar/scrap on the Capri Bordeaux is a natural feature to expect on this type of leather, or is something that happened between manufacturing and delivery.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    307

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    I appreciate the position you are in Duane, and why you don't want to comment. This is just frustrating to read though because I would really like to educate myself on what can cause leather problems and what might cause something like this. I hope the OP posts the resolution and if they are ever told the cause.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    I have seen this happen before on Capri. It's rare. I have had this situation occur twice over the years. Both times I caught it before delivery during unboxing to the client and took detailed photos of the areas to email to the customers before we made delivery.

    In one instance, the piece was returned to Hancock and Moore immediately and panels in question were re-leathered and it came back how I expected it to be originally. In the second instance, the client saw the photos and it was acceptable to him and they wanted delivery understanding it is what it is, and that didn't bother them. In my opinion, these "bad" areas should have been caught by the Marker at H&M prior to cutting and those areas salvaged. Here is a recliner in Capri delivered in 2009 that was one of those two pieces:

    http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...ht=grant+capri

    Capri is a very expensive leather, and I know they don't want to salvage areas like in the photos due to cost of waste, and it becomes a judgement call. Go to this post and scroll to Post # 13 to see what the Marker does and how they layout leathers to be cut.

    http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...actories/page2

    If a customer wants to object to the finish on the leather such as shown above it needs to be done when they are new, not 9 months afterwards, quite honestly. A good dealer will also catch this prior to delivery and run it by the customer if there is a possible issue. It's very much like buying a new car, you have to catch cosmetic flaws at time of delivery and resolve then. Once time and use begin, then things become questionable. In any case, a remedy would involve returning the pieces to the factory for Inspection and possible correction - only H&M can make that determination. Lack of using a Conditioner is also an issue, leather should always be conditioned. I can't comment any more beyond the above as it involves another dealer and their policies.
    Last edited by drcollie; 1 Week Ago at 04:56 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
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    307

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    That makes sense for the issues found in the leather on delivery, but the damage showing up since then in a 9 month period is disconcerting to say the least in an expensive hide like Capri. With my sofa, the instructions that came with the conditioning kit H&M sent me didn't even recommend conditioning until the pieces were a year old. I still hope they let us know what the resolution is and what H&M thinks if they do return the items to them for inspection and repair. I am really hoping to purchase a piece in Capri this year, if I can, and this type of issue would be heart breaking to me because it would consitute a real splurge and a pretty indulgent gift to myself after a very difficult year, lol.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
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    66

    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    It's kind of interesting that H&M never specify the appropriate treatment for any kind of leather on their site or things that invalidate the warranty, etc. I never got any info from 2 local dealers and one of them simply gave me Neiman leather wipes.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Hancock and Moore leather quality issues

    There is no warranty on leather from Hancock and Moore. For correct leather care, go to this thread

    http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...for-all-brands

    95% of all consumer leather wear and use complaints can be traced back to failure to clean and condition the leather.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum
    I ask that you do NOT call my store with general furniture questions, that is what the forum is for

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