Printable View
Hello members,
I am looking to purchase a leather sofa and Power recliner. I was looking at the following Hancock & Moore leather and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with the following grouping:
- Nirvana - class 2 protected
- Kismet - class 3 protected
- Gibney - class 3 protected
- Williamsburg - class 3 protected
I currently have a sofa in Cavalier and I’m not happy with its ware. I’m also open to suggestions.
I appreciate any feedback. Thank you.
Sure. we have lots of experience with leathers from H&M. "Wear" on leather is caused by two things 1) Failure to clean and condition on a regular basis 2) Friction.
Cavalier is a FINISHED (protected) leather, that means its a painted leather. All paint wears off over time, no matter if its on leather, a car, or a house. It's a sacrificial coating. The more you use it, the faster it wears away. You can slow the wear with proper cleaning and conditioning, however.
PURE ANILINE (unprotected) leathers do not have a painted topcoat, so there is no paint to wear away. However, they are most sensitive to sunlight fade being vegetable dyed hides, and can absorb some stains. They generally require more attention to cleaning/conditioning protocols as well, especially where the hands and head contact the hides.
Nirvana is a finished leather, very sofa, nice drape, one of my go-to leathers in category
Kismet is another finished leather, and its fine, but at a GR 3 price point would not be a top choice for me
Gibney is a new leather, we have not made anything in that piece, just have a swatch and its another finished leather. It's a heavyweight hide, and looks good
Williamsburg is an old school Pure Aniline, with deep colors, it has a hard shell to it and some gloss.
Hope that helps!
Dear Mr. Collie,
Thank you for your response. I’ve seen the Nirvana Navy on the Andover sofa. It looks really nice but wasn’t on my preferred color list which is deep brown or burgundy. This same store had a Your Way sofa in Kismet gray. Both sofas sat nicely. I prefer a firmer sofa. I liked the way the back of the “Your Way” #332 sofa could be adjusted. Both not my first choice of color and I didn’t know how the leather would hold up. While at the store I saw a swatch of Gibney and the Williamsburg which looked nice. I’m really intrigued by the Williamsburg leather. I didn’t realize it was aniline. On the Hancock & Moore website it says it’s protected. Can aniline leather be coated to make it protected? If so, is that why it has a hard shell? Do you happen to know if it’s uncomfortable because of the hard shell? Does it look nice or tacky because of the hard shell and the slight gloss. The dealers near me (approximately 1 hr away) are unfortunately not very knowledgeable. Do you happen know the leather country of origin? My apologies for all the questions.
I’m trying to talk my husband into going to the factory and showroom. Unfortunately, it’s about a 10 hour drive.
Cushion cores can be made firmer upon request when ordering, you just have to let us know at time of order, there is no additional charge for that if done when the piece is made.
Read about leather and durability in detail here on the forum. https://www.myfurnitureforum.com/sho...-FORUM-lt-READ
Gibney is only in Chestnut color and its a handsome hide, for a finished leather I do like it. Williamsburg is an aniline base with lots of color depth and its handsome, but I don't really recommend it much, because its a bit stiff and crunchy - pretty to look at but in use I think its not very soft or supple..There are better hides out there such as Tiburon (which is on grade class higher, so a bit pricier). I'm an aniline leather person myself - can you tell?
To the best of my knowledge, Kismet and Nirvana come from Chinese Tanneries*, Williamsburg from an Italian tannery.
*Everything from China is being phased out, so you will see lots of new leathers coming in over the next year and many will be South American, or Italian, and as stocks from Chinese tanneries wind down they will be dropped from inventory.
There is not a showroom at the Factory, nothing to see there. You can do a tour Mon-Thurs and see items being built, but there the only completed pieces will be those in final inspection.
Our prices probably handily beat your local dealer as well (Florida?), you can always get a quote from us once you decide on a cover. There is a H&M sale period you can catch if you order before March 5th.
Hey there DisneyFan,
I had to chime in here as a Florida resident and past purchaser from The Keeping Room x 2 with Delivery to Florida that Duane helped executer flawlessly. Not sure that you live in Florida...but a drive to the factory from Orlando is about 10 hours haha. If you are considering going to the factory...consider just going to DC and visiting Duane in person at his shop. Flying into Reagan airport is super easy and you can stay at a hotel down the street from his shop and even visit Mount Vernon all in a weekend!!! My wife and I did it and we ended up buying a chair and ottoman from his floor stock that we hadn't even been aware of previously.
Duane is awesome and his knowledge base combined with his exceptional pricing is tough to beat. I have been to 3-4 different furniture shops in Florida that carry H&M...all their stock combined isn't even half of what Duane has at The Keeping Room...not to mention you will rarely ever see a burnished leather or anything above a class II leather at most shops. We love burnished leather now...and that is all from our visit to The Keeping Room.
Cheers!
Dear Mr. Collie,
I responded to your message the other day; apparently, I did something incorrectly since it didn’t post. Let me try again.
I’m really not sure what to do regarding a leather selection. I did see from your posts that you prefer not protected leather. I’m hesitant because we eat and have drinks in our family room. I do know, i don’t want leather from China. We have two Austin power recliners and one Austin sofa in Cavalier Oxblood and they look horrendous. The frame is perfect though. My husband would like them reupholstered. I’m more reluctant not knowing of the quality of the leather. I’m looking for quality leather that will hold up for 20 years or so. Obviously, what we have sure didn’t! What do you think of H&M’s semi-aniline leather? What do you think about vegetable dyed leather vs chrome dyed leather?
Another reason I’m hesitant to purchase not protected is because I’m afraid of the leather being scratched.
Thank you again for responding.
Dear Inconceivable,
Thank you for responding. We don’t live in Florida…just Disney fans. With Mr. Collie’s help, I am confident we will be able to make an educated decision this time.
I have the sense you may not have read this thread I recommended, it will answer all your questions. After you study this thread I can field any questions that are not covered.
https://www.myfurnitureforum.com/sho...-FORUM-lt-READ
Hello Mr. Collie,
My apologies; but, I’m a bit confused. I did read the link you provided. “Aniline Leather: Only 6% of hides worldwide are fine enough to become pure aniline leathers.”
Why would my Cavalier Oxblood look so bad? The furniture is not n the sunlight nor a heating element. According, to H&M’s website it’s aniline leather and protected.
Cavalier Oxblood
Class 3
Protected
Cavalier is a top grain aniline leather with a protective finish. Cavalier is noted for its luxurious hand.
Click on this and READ IT ALL. TWO pages worth. https://www.myfurnitureforum.com/sho...-FORUM-lt-READ
I also have Cavalier. It is a PROTECTED leather. Semi anilines are protected leathers. The finish wears off. Please read the above link in its entirety. Even if you analine dye a leather, if you then add a topcoat that can wear off, you will see the wear. On FULL analine leathers there is no protective topcoat to wear off, So they wear better. YOU have to decide which you want. You can't have both, it doesn't exist.
Cavalier is a semi-Aniline.
If you do not clean and condition your hide regularly- two to there times per year- you will not get longevity out of it. That’s the whole secret but few ever do it.
Good afternoon,
I’ve read several posts regarding leather choices. Please tell me if I’m on the right track.
Family room - we eat and have beverages
We’re looking to purchase 1 recliner or possibly a lift chair for my husband.
Sofa
- Williamsburg (3) protected
- Antelope (4) protected - at one time Mr. Collie recommended; but, not as much now.
- Hyde Park burnished - (4) not protected
- Gaucho burnished - (4) not protected
- Remington burnished - (4) not protected
Living room - occasional beverages
Sofa
All of the following are unprotected (4)
- Capri
- Markle
- Tilburn
- Hyde Park burnished
- Gaucho burnished
- Remington burnished
What is the serviceability of the above leathers? Thank you for responding.
Remember: PROTECTED just means painted, its not armored. All Paint on surfaces wears off over time, be it on leather, your car, your house, paint is a sacrificial coating. UNPROTECTED means pure Aniline, the color is dyed and will not wear off. However Anilines can absorb stains and will fade quicker in sunlight than painted leathers.
On the leather choices for the Family Room : Antelope I would avoid, the paint is applied very thinly to maximize softness of the hide, in my experience the color coat does not have good longevity. Williamsburg is a handsome leather, but a little crusty and stiffer than some others. Burnished leathers are very hardy, but do make saddle-squeak noises. Don't get those if you object to friction sounds.
On the Living Room choices: As above for Burnished. Markle is being phased out because of inconsistent colorways from batch to batch, too much variance. Capri is always a great hide and has some resistance to spills, but not like a painted leather. I am not familiar with Tilburn, never heard of that one.
Thank you, Mr. Collie, for your quick response.
I’ll take Antelope and Markle off the list.
Typo…not Tilburn; it’s Tilburon.
Family room:
No sun issues.
I’ll try and find a burnished leather to see if the squeaking bothers us. From what I’ve read, the burnished leather would be better for our family room. My husband’s Austin recliner got a hole in the headrest and there are issues with the foot lift. My sofa doesn’t have those issues; but, unfortunately, I wore the leather through the seat on 2 cushions. Cavaliers Oxblood. My husband is on medication. I’m not. Probably, between his medicine and me not conditioning the leather created the issues. Live and learn….
Living room:
No direct sunlight.
Maybe, Capri.
That would be Tiburon, which is a GR 4 oil and wax pressed Italian pure aniline, the classic "Pull-Up" leather which means is shows color bursts to pressure (some who don't understand this class of hide will say "It scratches") Pull-ups have been around for decades, and are very hardy. All Burnished leathers are done on a Pull-Up Leather base crust as well.
Yes, if you ware going through the leather itself, its from failure to clean and condition, particularly on headrests and tops of arms. When skin contacts the leather for long periods of time, the oils and dirt on human skin will build up on leather and first appear as a dark spot (staining). Eventually it will break down the tannins in the hide and cause loss of the structural cellular make up of leather and the hide fails. The solution is easy. Simply wipe down with a damp cloth every two weeks in those areas, then two or three times a year, do a full conditioning by cleaning the hide first, then conditioning. Do that and it will outlast all of us.
Dear Mr. Collie,
I had a chance to visit a store with some Hancock and Moore sofas. I only sat well for me. Unfortunately, it was a bit too contemporary. It was the Embrace.
I did look at some leather samples. Of course, the sales person said I should only go with “protected” leather.
I looked at the unprotected anyway.
I liked:
Capri - only for the living room because it won’t get a lot of use.
I also liked these:
Cameo burnished
Hyde Park burnished
Remington burnished
Tilton
Williamsburg protected. Will the Williamsburg eventually crack and split?
I’m trying convince my to drive to Arlington. Fingers crossed….
LOL, of course they said you should go with "Protected" leather, I would not except them to suggest anything else. The lack of knowledge among most furniture salespeople never ceases to amaze me.
No, Williamsburg won't crack and split any moreso than any other hide. It just is not a very soft and supple leather. All our good, the Tilton tends to come in a bit shiny, so make sure you are good with that.
Hello Mr. Collie,
Today, I asked my husband to “feel” the mini leather samples we were given and not look a the color.
This is what he thought.
He did NOT like:
Williamsburg
Remington
He did like:
Capri (no surprise there…lol)
Hyde Park
Tilton
What do you think of the following as compared to the above? Feel free to make additional recommendations too.
Buckingham
Cameo
Gaucho
Hand Antique Saddle
Mustang
I thought I’d eliminate any that have a similar feel to Williamsburg or Remington.
I’ve been looking at H&M sofas on there website trying to narrow them down. The dealers near us (1-2 hours away) don’t have much stock. Plus, as you’ve mentioned, the sales personnel don’t know the product.
Generally speaking, approximately, how many H&M sofas do you normally have on your showroom?
Thank you.
All the Burnished leathers are essentially the same, just the color variation is really the primary difference. I would skip the Mustang unless you have seen it made up on a piece, while very soft, it's a shaded nubuck leather that is about halfway to a suede. Its one of those hides you will either like a lot, or dislike. You won't get the "feel" of that leather off the 2" sample.
I keep at any given time, appx 50 Hancock and Moore pieces on the floor. I probably have (9) sofas right now from them. My store is small, and I also have to keep some B-Y, Sherrill and Century sofas as well....so 9 or 10 is about my max on H&M sofas. In fact, I have an H&M Milan sofa arriving on Wednesday and no where to place it, so it will go in my small warehouse until space frees up.
Thank you for your response, Mr. Collie. I’ll take Mustang off the list too. I’m trying to consolidate my leather options.
As far as sofas, it’s hard deciding when the Hancock and Moore stock is so limited in stores. I hate to make a selection based on a photo.
For the family room I would like comfort for sitting plus laying down. I actually lay down on the sofa more when watching tv.
I like the looks of the Rugby Club sofa; but, read on your forum the back tilts back a bit. We currently have the Austin sofa with matching chair so this is what I’d be comparing to. These also look nice in the photos: Ashmore, Danvers, Doyle,
French Curve. I read you like the French Curve sofa for comfort. Of course, comfort is subjective. Do you regularly carry any of these sofas? I’m leaning towards sofas which don’t have loose pillows.
For the living room, I like the looks of the Rita sofa and the Henessey sofa. By chance, have you seen either of these?
Thank you again for taking the time to respond.
The Austin is a great sitting sofa, but not so much for laying down for a lot of people as the lower bustle cushion protrudes.
A Doyle is the champ for double duty of both sitting and napping. It has the roll arms, T-Cushion and plenty of depth. I have French Curves in my own home and they are not deep enough to lay down on and the arm also has too sharp an edge. I have both of those on display in my store. Ashmore is OK, but its not a large sofa. Rugby Club has box cushions and is OK, but not real roomy in my opinion. Rita is not a lay-down unit, nor is the Hennessey.
Good afternoon,
Does the Doyle sofa have loose back cushions or are they attached? They appear to be loose; but, I just wanted to verify.
You mentioned the Rugby has boxed cushions. Is that a bad thing? I was thinking attached back cushions wouldn’t have to be readjusted. I’m not into fixing back cushions…lol
There’s so much to learn. I’m so glad I stumbled upon your website. You are truly knowledgeable and it’s much appreciated!
I forgot to mention, the Rita or Henessey would be for the living room. No need for napping there…lol.
The Doyle does have loose back cushions. I would advise that you sit in something with a tight back as it is a very different feel than the Austin you currently have.
Additionally, have you considered the Your Way series in the Deep sizing? It may not be as visually elegant as the models you are currently considering but will allow for something you can lay down on and likely be more affordable than most other options. We have the Y87 deep sofa and I have fallen asleep on it many times. The cushions on this sofa are loose but they attach quite strongly with Velcro to the sofa frame. Thus the amount of "fixing" needed should be minimal.
Cheers!
Hmmm…I’ll look into the Your Way sofa. Does the Doyle sofa have Velcro back cushions too?
I’ve been reading several posts…attempting to be a more educated consumer then in the past. I know, without doubt, you definitely prefer unprotected leather over protected. I’m leaning towards burnished leather for our family room. I’m not concerned about it for the sofa. I’m just wondering if you still recommend it for my husband’s recliner? He’s on quite a bit of medication and the oils from his body didn’t do well with the Cavalier Oxblood. Do you think the burnished leather would be best for his recliner too? I wanted to make sure before ordering leather samples.
He currently has the Austin power recliner. He said he’s open to other styles too! He’s 5’10”. I was also wondering if the Austin lift chair goes back as far as the regular Austin?
Thank you so much for your help.
All H&M sofas that are not tight-backs or attached have Velcro strips in the back of the loose cushions to help secure to the back of the piece.
Read this on preventing color loss / staining
https://www.myfurnitureforum.com/sho...highlight=wipe
There are so many better units than the Austin Power Recliner, that's one of the few pieces H&M makes that I don't care for. If you want that in a Lift chair, yes - it goes back just as far. For a conventional recliner take a look at the 1044 Sadler, should fit him perfectly. Also the Westwood, which I have in my own home (I'm the same height).