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Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Hello,
I'm new to this forum, and thank anyone in advance who might be able to help.
My husband and I are looking for a deep seat leather sectional (ala RH model) and have seen a few for sale in stores in the Orlando area. Can't say I'm impressed yet, although one store sells Classic Leather sofas, and swears this is the way to go. They don't have a floor model with a deep seat.
The same store is also getting a RH rip-off, (I mean look-alike) floor model from Omnia and the salesman says the quality is 'alright.'
On the internet I've found RH copies from a company called Casco Bay...(Can't look at the actual model or SIT in in person, so am not convinced, tho the sales pitch via internet is impressive.)
http://cascobayfurniture.com/pages.p...ath=11&pID=131
We're looking for an American made, 8-way hand tied sectional that will WEAR for years. My husband wants a 40+ inch deep seat, (ala the RH sectional.)
Drcollie, your posts are excellent! I know you're a fan of H&M, but I can't imagine finding anything they have well priced?
I LOVE the Brandington-Young chair we bought in Hickory about 7 years ago, but they don't have deep seating and I understand they're now made in China?
My dilemma is clouded by our last sectional decision! About 8 years ago we went to Hickory, North Carolina and bought a custom ordered sectional made my Century from the old Boyle's store. Spent a huge bunch of money, (on an upholstered sectional) and it's been awful! Debate about whether the issue is the coils in the cushions, or the frame. Anyway, learned the name isn't everything. We'll be donating this sectional to the first anyone who will come and get it!
Thank you to anyone who can help in this process! It's a big decision for us and I'm trying to get it right.
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Re: Shopping for a deep seat sectional...Attn drcollie
Classic Leather is not bad, but also not what they used to be. They have moved into plywood frames (like most makers) in an effort to keep costs down, so I would put them on par with Bradington Young. Omnia is nothing to write home about, and Casco Bay is just another mid-line unit that some people rave about and others rave at.
Bradington Young is not made in China. Its done in North Carolina. They do have a Chinese line that's sold under the name of "Seven Seas" collection. Some of their pieces sit fairly deep, but you really have to look at inside measurements as a guide, not outside. 20" to 22" inside depth is pretty well industry standard. At 23" we start getting into the 'deeper' units and only a few will go beyond 24: inside depth.
I can't tell you what to buy, because I don't know your comfort level on budget. In leather, there are only two companies left that are still in the USA using 8-way Hand-Tied construction on solid wood frames, and they are Leathercraft and Hancock and Moore. Everyone else has moved to plywood or are 'looping' their springs, not knotting them in the classic and correct fashion. That's where you have to be if you want solid, durable construction. After that, you are giving up features for price. I still thing Bradington Young offers good value, but its not built like those other two. The older I get and the longer I stay in this business I am absolutely convinced that it pays to by top tier 'old school' furniture as it stays useful and intact for decades.
Today I was on the phone with a man who said to me (and I am not making this up): "I'm tired of buying sofas. I'm on my 4th sofa in 7 years, all this stuff is crap and falls apart, do you have anything that can last five years?"
"Sure! Everything I have in my store will go far beyond that and not deteriorate when you're using it." I told him.
"Well......how much does one of those sofas cost?" he queries.
I tell him "$ 2,500 and up, depending on how fancy you get."
"TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS AND EVEN MORE!?!?!, WHY, I AIN't PAYIN' THAT !" he counters.
"And that is why you are on your 4th sofa in 7 years"......I told him.
Brand names are not reliable, as companies (like Classic Leather) change their build specs constantly. What is reliable however, is studying what makes a good piece of furniture and using your own eyes and touch to see if what a maker offers measures up.
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Re: Shopping for a deep seat sectional...Attn drcollie
The cheap couch is part of what has become our disposable mentality. Very American. Many people would rather buy something cheap made in China than something of quality made in the U.S...Just to save a few dollars. Other people can’t afford the extra dollars so their money goes to China.
Not just furniture...Try buying an American made lawn mower or virtually anything in Home Depot. It may have a very old American trusted name but somewhere it will probably say 'made in China'.
Thanks for the furniture information. Am still at a loss as none of those manufactures are making a RH clone sectional like the RH Lancaster.
I found a company in NC who does. They're called The Comfortable Couch. Has anyone heard of them? http://thecomfortablecouch.com/default.aspx
Unlike Casco Bay they have a storefront in N.C.
Thanks for any opinions!
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Re: Shopping for a deep seat sectional...Attn drcollie
Here's the thing....people THINK they are saving money buying less costly imported goods. But lets take that gentleman who called me yesterday for example. Four sofas in 7 years. If he paid $ 995 "On Sale" for each one, then he's into them for $ 4,000. He could have bought just one Hancock and Moore for less than that $ 4K and at seven years of age its not even at 1/3 of its lifespan. End result is over time - he's paying more in order to avoid doing it right the first time with a larger capital outlay.
But like they say "You pays your money and you takes your choice!"
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Re: Shopping for a deep seat sectional...Attn drcollie
Okay, so we've established you get what you pay for.
Can you recommend a specific leather sectional from either HM or Brandington Young with the DEEP seating like the RH Lancaster sectional?
There has to be somebody making a good one. I've found at least a dozen clones but none that I can be sure of in terms of quality.
Thanks!
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Re: Shopping for a deep seat sectional...Attn drcollie
I have no idea how deep that sofa might be...dimensions help!
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Re: Shopping for a deep seat sectional...Attn drcollie
If we're talking about this,
Quote:
Originally Posted by 98" LANCASTER LEATHER CORNER SECTIONAL
98" Corner Sectional: 98"W x 98"D x 35"H
109" Corner Sectional: 109"W x 109"D x 35"H
123" Right-Facing L-Sectional: 123"W x 98"D x 35"H
123" Left-Facing L-Sectional: 123"W x 98"D x 35"H
136" Right-Facing L-Sectional: 136"W x 109"D x 35"H
136" Left-Facing L-Sectional: 136"W x 109"D x 35"H
114" U-Chaise Sectional: 114"W x 68"D x 35"H
123" U-Chaise Sectional: 123"W x 70"D x 35"H
134" U-Sofa Sectional: 134"W x 98"D x 35"H
149" U-Sofa Sectional: 149"W x 109"D x 35"H
34" clearance needed for delivery.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
We're looking for a 98'' corner sectional Aaron mentioned above. Seat depth is about 48" deep.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Outside depth is misleading, its the inside depth that matters. 23"? 26" ? What size do you want to do? And in a Sectional, correct?
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Drcollie and anyone interested,
These are the two companies who have the leather sectional I'm talking about. Obviously this is a Restoration clone. The RH one is made in China and we want American made.
The first company is Leather Groups. They call it the Langston. On this page they show a short video that not only shows dimensions but more importantly some of the construction.
http://www.leathergroups.com/shop/La...onal-Sofa.html
The second company is Casco Bay. They call the same leather sectional the Manchester. On this page they not only show the specs but many many photos of the hardwood frame, 8 way hand tied construction, and more.
Here's the page http://cascobayfurniture.com/pages.p...ath=11&pID=131
If you scroll down the page you'll see in gray type:
Click here to see actual photos of our 8 way hand-tied construction. Amazing photos.
Lower down the page...
Click here to see actual photos of a sofa being made in our North Carolina factory.
Lower..
Click here to see actual photos of our hardwood frame.
The dilemma is that the Company is in Maine, or New Hampshire and this factory is in North Carolina. We want to see and sit on any couch before buying it. A gentleman from the company phoned me and was very reassuring (as any saleman or rep should be), and offered that if we weren't satisfied we could pay a 500.00 shipping fee to return it. (shipping is free from both companies.)
On the other had Leather Groups is a very big company and sells many lines of furniture. They say the frame is hardwood, but 'reinforced' and that they use heavy gauge spring suspension. I read that 8 way hand-tied is optional at no charge. On another thread on this website you said that wasn't possible, (conversation was about this exact company) and that they can't just do 8 way without retrofitting.
I've found several other companies who sell them but only one other American one. It's name is Comfortable Couch, what appears to be a small company. http://thecomfortablecouch.com/default.aspx
As far as the size goes we have a bit of room to move in all directions, but the deep seating is the most important aspect. We have a RH store in our town and my husband has been wanting that deep seated sofa forever!
Thank You for your help on this!
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Leather Groups spends a lot of time on its cushion, and that looks nice but only has a 1 year warranty. Cores never fail on 12 months..lol. And they use no-sag springs for construction. Pass.
Casco Bay is covered elsewhere in the forum, do a search.
If you want the REAL DEAL, made right and built to last.... the H&M Settlement sofa is the one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitkat
Drcollie and anyone interested,
These are the two companies who have the leather sectional I'm talking about. Obviously this is a Restoration clone. The RH one is made in China and we want American made.
The first company is Leather Groups. They call it the Langston. On this page they show a short video that not only shows dimensions but more importantly some of the construction.
http://www.leathergroups.com/shop/La...onal-Sofa.html
The second company is Casco Bay. They call the same leather sectional the Manchester. On this page they not only show the specs but many many photos of the hardwood frame, 8 way hand tied construction, and more.
Here's the page
http://cascobayfurniture.com/pages.p...ath=11&pID=131
If you scroll down the page you'll see in gray type:
Click here to see actual photos of our 8 way hand-tied construction. Amazing photos.
Lower down the page...
Click here to see actual photos of a sofa being made in our North Carolina factory.
Lower..
Click here to see actual photos of our hardwood frame.
The dilemma is that the Company is in Maine, or New Hampshire and this factory is in North Carolina. We want to see and sit on any couch before buying it. A gentleman from the company phoned me and was very reassuring (as any saleman or rep should be), and offered that if we weren't satisfied we could pay a 500.00 shipping fee to return it. (shipping is free from both companies.)
On the other had Leather Groups is a very big company and sells many lines of furniture. They say the frame is hardwood, but 'reinforced' and that they use heavy gauge spring suspension. I read that 8 way hand-tied is optional at no charge. On another thread on this website you said that wasn't possible, (conversation was about this exact company) and that they can't just do 8 way without retrofitting.
I've found several other companies who sell them but only one other American one. It's name is Comfortable Couch, what appears to be a small company.
http://thecomfortablecouch.com/default.aspx
As far as the size goes we have a bit of room to move in all directions, but the deep seating is the most important aspect. We have a RH store in our town and my husband has been wanting that deep seated sofa forever!
Thank You for your help on this!
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Thanks Drcollie,
Funny you mentioned the Leather Groups cushions. I thought the channeled down and foam backs were a great option and I liked the way the seats were configured so you could remove the foam and replace over time. Agree with you about the fact that it's not advertised as 8 way hand-tied.
This is the same sofa that in another post on this board someone said Leather Groups offered to do 8 way hand tied at no extra cost. Am sure you remembered your response. It does not seem possible or reasonable to me either.
Casco Bay is 'made right' according to their photos and sales rep. The price is right. There isn't really much said on this forum about Casco Bay with the exception that some people are concerned that they're in Maine, yet the sofas are built in N.C. So I can't rule them out.
The Comfortable Couch store builds outside Hickory and has a small showroom/retail store. It's family owned. They have offered that we can come up and see and sit on a sofa like the sectional, because they do have a store. That's a plus. Still a long drive. They've offered to configure it in two pieces rather than three...I don't like that separate corner piece! http://thecomfortablecouch.com/default.aspx
The HM settlement sofa is beautiful but I don't see any pictures of the sectional? Do they make a sectional, and can you price it out for me please?
Also, does Bradington and Young have a sectional with this deep seat? I've been happy with our BY leather club chair!
Thank you for your insight. I think people 'know' that 8 way hand tied is always the way to go, but sometimes deceive themselves into thinking, 'well, it really won't be a problem for me'.
We have a sofa that was custom made for the house we live in (the sofa is 8 feet long). It was made during the 1960's...(came with the house), and I've had it recovered two times, and it's awesome. I've even slept on it many times and it's rock solid and beautiful.
So I'd be interested in finding out how much I'd be paying for the HM settlement sectional!
Btw..Understand you have a BMW motorcycle. In the early 1960's a German friend of my fathers went to Germany and bought what looked to me like a GIGANTIC BMW motorcycle. My dad ended up buying it from him and I loved the fact that he drove me to elementary school on it. Talk about cool! But that danged exhaust pipe on the right side burned the inside of my leg, seriously burned! more times than I can count. Fond memories of it though.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
I had to laugh at the video that Leather Groups did, where he says "This is the cheapest one we make". The first rule of retail sales is NEVAH-EVAH refer to any product you might want to sell to someone as 'the cheapest'. They look low-budget to me, and unprofessional, but perhaps they make a good product, drop-in spring grids don't hold my attention very long when you're talking quality units.
Casco Bay I have no hands-on experience with. I'll have to look them over next time at Market. I think you'll find comments about them pretty much all over the board.
Settlement is a sofa only, not done as a sectional, sorry. I don't think I have any sectionals that are deeper than 23", mostly because you can't sit upright in them when they get beyond that point and sectional buyers usually want to be able to do that rather then lounge.
heh. My BMW bike left for a new home last spring, replaced by a KTM (Austrian) and Moto Guzzi! (Italian) - but I've have plenty of experience with hot exhaust pipes over the years.....
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
The Leather Groups is off the table for us...I know it's cheaply made, and that's all there is to it. Think they hold appeal in the Restoration Hardware clone group because they're a big company, well known and have competitive pricing.
I learned a lot more this morning about both The Comfortable Couch Store and Casco Bay...Honestly though, I did a search on this forum and don't find much about Casco Bay. One person didn't like the fact that they're made in Hickory and the sales rep/owner? is in Maine, and the address on the company listed is in Thomasville, N.C. Thomasville is where they ship from, and that's the number of the guys who ship. Does anyone reading have any experience with Casco Bay?
From everything I've been able to learn Casco Bay is the only one doing actual 8 way hand tied on the RH clone sectional.
I spoke to the owner of The Comfortable Couch today and he explained they use a 'soft lux pocketed coil system' and described it as superior to the 8 way hand-tied which he called 'old-timey'. Other than that, they do build a quality frame etc...All done in Hickory, and the owner is a super nice guy. I can't tell from the photos on his site if the tailoring is as precise as we would like it to be...What do you think? http://thecomfortablecouch.com/default.aspx
We looked at Classic leather pieces locally this week and the tailoring was beautiful. I really appreciate beautiful workmanship!
Many people have suggested we won't want a sectional that deep, (my husband and I don't weigh 275 between us!), but we have a big Restoration Hardware store in town, and my husband has wanted that deep seat since he first saw it. It's for a T.V. room and we are going to lounge on it! Plenty of other places to 'sit'.
This forum is awesome. I think all the stores are very aware of it, and it serves a great purpose. Thanks so much for creating and maintaining it!
If anyone has any thoughts about The Comfortable Couch store, http://thecomfortablecouch.com/default.aspx or Casco Bay, http://www.cascobayfurniture.com/ Please share your thoughts!
Not sure if you can private message on this board, but share that way if you want too.
Thanks again Drcollie! I'm laughing out loud at you looking at that video from Leather Groups, thinking...'Uh huh,...sure...' Proves you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
If you're interested, there's a discussion of the merits of the soft-luxe system vs 8-way here: http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...highlight=soft
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
There are hundreds, if not thousands of makers of upholstery. If you were to go to Market, there are so many that it makes one's head spin. I'm often asked....'What do you think of this brand?' and the truth is ..... I have no idea in many cases. Why? Because I have to see the guts of a piece to see how its made, and that's not going to happen when its all upholstered. That's why the emphasis here on the forum is "How its Made" and "What to look for", rather than grading out by brand. And the only way you can see how something is made is to either go to the factories and observe, or have a very sharp eye if they do a video on how they make a piece. Other than that, I won't know how most brands are made as I'm in my store 6 days a week and on the 7th, I'm not in someone else's furniture store! Most makers will NOT show you a video of how they make something unless they're proud of it, so that's a clue....learn how its made and investigate the construction using the resources on what makes a good piece.
Everything looks good when its new. Even the biggest pile of junk looks and sits good when its fresh out of the box. Its how it looks and feels in five years that separates the wheat from the chafe. And only well made upholstery can do that.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drcollie
There are hundreds, if not thousands of makers of upholstery. If you were to go to Market, there are so many that it makes one's head spin. I'm often asked....'What do you think of this brand?' and the truth is ..... I have no idea in many cases. Why? Because I have to see the guts of a piece to see how its made, and that's not going to happen when its all upholstered. That's why the emphasis here on the forum is "How its Made" and "What to look for", rather than grading out by brand. And the only way you can see how something is made is to either go to the factories and observe, or have a very sharp eye if they do a video on how they make a piece. Other than that, I won't know how most brands are made as I'm in my store 6 days a week and on the 7th, I'm not in someone else's furniture store! Most makers will NOT show you a video of how they make something unless they're proud of it, so that's a clue....learn how its made and investigate the construction using the resources on what makes a good piece.
Everything looks good when its new. Even the biggest pile of junk looks and sits good when its fresh out of the box. Its how it looks and feels in five years that separates the wheat from the chafe. And only well made upholstery can do that.
Your comment about going to Market and it makes your head spin. I can only imagine!
We've been to Hickory several times to buy furniture and it was SO frustrating. Just walking around the original Boyle's and the other stores in that building was overwhelming. Hickory is a very tiny tot compared to High Point, N.C. We were warned by friends that High Point would be 'too much' and that it's geared for people in the industry...Designers and Furniture store showroom people.
So little Hickory gave us a headache. The exact sofa you want is not usually on the showroom floor and all the choices to select from..Arm styles, fabrics, pillow trim....When we picked the Century sectional we have now, we left feeling like we got the right thing. A very well made and certainly not inexpensive piece of furniture.
When it was delivered we were both shocked. We hadn't realized the seating depth would be 'average'...(there's the entire seat measurement that includes the part covered by the back cushions and the inside seat depth. What we now look at closely. ) We removed and tossed all six of the back cushions and bought 21" square throw pillows to increase the seat depth. NOT the way to treat a beautifully tailored piece of brand new furniture.
Anyway, I would LIKE to buy this new sectional from Classic Leather, H&M or Bradington Young. Just because I know it would be made right, and American made.
Shopping for a Restoration Hardware clone is not like shopping for a 'normal' sofa or sectional.
Matthew, I've been following your conversation about the soft lux coil system vs. 8 way hand-tied and I'm still not sure if the soft lux is a drop in or not?
Thank you for all your help!
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitkat
Matthew, I've been following your conversation about the soft lux coil system vs. 8 way hand-tied and I'm still not sure if the soft lux is a drop in or not?
The soft-luxe systems all are, as far as I'm aware. Main point of that thread, I think, is that soft-luxe systems shouldn't be automatically dismissed if everything else is what you're looking for. From a comfort and longevity standpoint, they seem to be a solid unit (I don't personally own a sofa with one, so that's just my understanding after read Jeff's description).
My question, if there are truly only two manufacturers doing true 8-way hand tie, is whether a system like the soft-luxe is better than a drop-in 8-way system.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Matthew
The soft-luxe systems all are, as far as I'm aware. Main point of that thread, I think, is that soft-luxe systems shouldn't be automatically dismissed if everything else is what you're looking for. From a comfort and longevity standpoint, they seem to be a solid unit (I don't personally own a sofa with one, so that's just my understanding after read Jeff's description).
My question, if there are truly only two manufacturers doing true 8-way hand tie, is whether a system like the soft-luxe is better than a drop-in 8-way system.
Matthew, Only two manufacturers doing 8 way hand-tied in the sofas I'm looking at, (actually it's down to one maker.) But most of the best furniture makers still do it. 8 way hand-tied is labor intensive, so using a drop-in would cut down on labor costs. To my understanding though 8 way hand tied is the gold standard. I've heard of a company (very, very expensive furniture company) that does 10 way hand-tied.
I've not discounted the soft-luxe system (yet)...I'd like to hear more opinions from people who know a lot more than me.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitkat
Matthew, Only two manufacturers doing 8 way hand-tied in the sofas I'm looking at, (actually it's down to one maker.) But most of the best furniture makers still do it. 8 way hand-tied is labor intensive, so using a drop-in would cut down on labor costs. To my understanding though 8 way hand tied is the gold standard. I've heard of a company (very, very expensive furniture company) that does 10 way hand-tied
If you read the therad I linked, then according to Hancock and Moore, only 2 manufacturers still do true 8-way hand tie. I have no idea if that's true or not, but that's what they say (the others, presumably, would be drop in units, hand-looped, etc). Personally, that statement seems a little far-fetched to me, but I don't have any real reason to discount it.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Everyone is always trying to invent the better mousetrap. A true 8-way hand-tied on a proper steel band reinforced webbing is and always will be the gold standard. Trouble is, its costly to make that way and not every consumer wants to buy in that price range.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
drcollie
Everyone is always trying to invent the better mousetrap. A true 8-way hand-tied on a proper steel band reinforced webbing is and always will be the gold standard. Trouble is, its costly to make that way and not every consumer wants to buy in that price range.
No one has disputed that in this thread. No one has ever been able to answer my question though. If only 2 companies actually do 8-way hand-tied properly (as you've stated in other threads), then would a system like the soft-luxe (or some other alternative system, I only mention it because Jeff spoke about the qualities of the soft luxe system in another thread) be as good as those who use a drop in unit or loop instead of tie?
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
There's a difference between 8-way handtied and 8 way handlooped. Many companies are using the looping method, and skipping the knoting part. Watch the construction video on the H&M website to see the difference.
Suspension systems are all about comfort and support. Is a drop in like soft-luxe better in comfort and support than a drop in unit? Well, they're both really drop-ins, you'd have to judge for yourself. And see how long they last over time as well. Everything is good when new.....time is the test.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
On Matthew's note...I'm asking is the drop in soft luxe system 'better than' the sinuous spring system. Just googled sinuous spring, and sheesh! This sure looks flimsy! http://www.perfectproductsonline.com...ussprings.html
In this picture of the soft-luxe system...Is it me or does it look like the springs do not extend to the edges? Looks as if the springs are like putting a slightly smaller box inside of a slightly bigger box. http://thecomfortablecouch.com/Springs.aspx
So, I probably just answered my own question..It appears the soft-lux system is 'better' than a sinuous spring drop in.
Guess my real question is how will the soft-lux hold up over time? If a sinuous spring system might last five years, how long would the soft-lux last?...Assuming the 8 way hand-tied will last what? 20 years, 10 years?
Matthew, I'm assuming the 'only two companies' who use 8 way hand-tied are companies that make leather only. I know interior designers who buy extreme high end furniture for clients...Okay I just googled Kreiss Furniture and they don't even use 8 way hand-tied! Kreiss furniture is X-tremely expensive.
Here's an interesting description under Wikipedia of upholstery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upholstery
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Sinuous springs are about as cheap a spring system as you can put in a piece. Most ANYTHING is better, and I would thing the soft-luxe probably splits the difference between 8-Way and Sinuous. As for longevity...who knows? Only time will tell...
How long will an 8-way hand-tied last? More that a lifetime if its done correctly, with proper webbing and steel strap reinforcement. Like most anything made, a piece is only as good as the weakest component. Webbing is critical, as it supports the springs. Poor webbing and the springs sag....there's a lot of expense to do it right.
Go to this link and watch at the 3:02 mark to the 4:32 mark if you want to see it done right.
http://www.hancockandmoore.com/video.asp
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitkat
I shared my thoughts yesterday on Cascobay in this thread but they were taken down.
Apparently Cascobay spends time scouring the internet for negative comments about their company and works to get those comments removed.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sofadoo
I shared my thoughts yesterday on Cascobay in this thread but they were taken down.
Apparently Cascobay spends time scouring the internet for negative comments about their company and works to get those comments removed.
I was going to dispute that by pointing to a thread on these forums in which I was critical of of Casco Bay's internet practices, but it seems like that thread has disappeared as well. Maybe I just can't find it, but that's a little disturbing.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
I have removed negative comments with no basis in fact on Casco Bay at the request of their owners. I realize no one likes censorship, but comments can be damaging to a company when they are based on heresay and unsubstantiated. Normally I will not remove them, but when a company makes a specific request for me to do so (and Casco Bay did) I believe it fair and prudent to do so after reviewing the posts and determining they were based on speculation. That's a judgement call on my part, and one I don't take lightly. If comments are based on fact or personal experience, that's a different story and those will never be edited. I did send a PM to Sofadoo explaining why I did take that action. Matthew, your comments were not specifically edited.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
I was referring to comments I made in a separate thread about Casco Bay a few months ago (the entire thread seems to be missing). That said, this is a private forum. You're certainly entitled to take whatever editorial means you deem appropriate, and since you're at least up front about it I don't have a particular issue with it. The fact that Casco Bay emailed you does essentially confirm my belief that they do some sketchy "marketing" on various forums of this type. If nothing else, it reaffirms my belief that they aren't a company I'd want anything to do with. If a company has to act questionably in their marketing, it general means their products are questionable as well.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
There was a thread on Garden Web with several posts from "satisfied" Casco Bay customers--most of the posts appeared after a post from the Casco Bay staff. There's something creepy about a company that trolls private furniture forums.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Moderating a forum, or a mail list, is never fun.
On one hand, you want to have Freedom of Speech for all members and on the other, there is a risk of lawsuit if you allow unsubstantiated criticism of a competitive business on a privately held forum. While I generally do not censor, I will kill any threads that take us down the slamming-a-company-road when its based on heresay, especially if I get a complaint from that company on the thread or if I know it to be false or a disgruntled employee, etc. The owner of Casco Bay indicated the thread was slanderous in his email to me and that influenced my decision to remove it. I do not wish to test the legal waters of what can or can not be said about a company in a forum that I own and operate, and monitor.
Additional emails followed from Casco Bay last night regarding more mentions of their products in this venue, and my response was that I am not going to trim all reference to their product line in the forums they may find not to their liking, and will only respond to specific issues. I further indicated they are more than welcome to respond to all questions and concerns about their product line here in the forums and encouraged them to do so.
Now, if someone wants to bring me a Casco Bay product and drop it by in my parking lot, I'll grab my Sawzall and Razor Knife, and we'll take it apart and see how its made. I think that would be fun - and educational! I always like to take furniture apart and see what's inside.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
drcollie, can I ask you if you have done the same for leathergroups? I almost went with Casco Bay initially because all I could find were positive reviews but so glad to have stumbled on this information.
I am now looking at Leathergroups, can't find any negative reviews but disheartened that this is a possibility.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
I've never heard of "Leathergroups", sorry! Looking at their website, it's pretty much a slash n' burn / super-sale kind of website.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Hello Duane,
Long time and my husband and I are still shopping. We live in a large urban area! and most of what's out there is just plain junk.
The RH clones are just a bit too big for our room, and I finally found a leather sectional by Classic called the Tamarack Sectional.
I know you've stated before that Classic has switched to plywood frames, but I honestly can't find anything else wrong with this company...Expensive yes, but the Tamarack leather section fits our needs with being American made, 8 way hand tied, and the leather is very nice. The Tamarack has a very deep seat, (when you remove the excessive number of leather pillows that sit in front of the back cushions)...
Duane, why don't you carry Classic Leather!
Are you or any of your readers familiar with this sectional? I'm curious because it's in the Classic catalogue in the store, but not in Classic's online catalogue. (They have other Tamarack items, but they don't show the leather sectional.)
We're looking at getting the 2511-c corner piece and the left facing and right facing loveseats to Voila! create the sized sectional we want. About 107 x 107. Priced at 7950.00 for Grade 1 leather 8602.00 for grade 2 and 9250.00 for grade 3.
Any feedback would be much appreciated!
Thanks DR for maintaining this forum!
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kitkat
I know you've stated before that Classic has switched to plywood frames, but I honestly can't find anything else wrong with this company...Expensive yes, but the Tamarack leather section fits our needs with being American made, 8 way hand tied, and the leather is very nice. The Tamarack has a very deep seat, (when you remove the excessive number of leather pillows that sit in front of the back cushions)...
Duane, why don't you carry Classic Leather!
There is nothing at all wrong with Classic Leather brand and you'll probably be very happy with the purchase, I'd not be concerned in buying one if there was a specific model I liked. But yes, they are 100 % plywood - and that's OK - Bradington Young and most others are made that way, too. Just make sure you are not paying a solid hardwood price for a plywood piece. I'm guessing it should sell in the $ 5K to $ 7K range. Did you know the founders and owners of Hancock and Moore all worked at Classic Leather in the 70's? True story!
I don't carry Classic Leather for a number of reasons - though the rep has been by many times to see if I would pick up the line:
* My store is small. I have to give good representation to the lines I carry which means multiple floor models of each maker's products. Nothing is more frustrating for customers to drive an hour to a store and they only have one piece to show on a given product line.
* Diluted product line & Duplication. I don't see many unique items in their offerings, mostly its the same kind of product I already have covered from other makers. Except of course, for the Harley Davidson logo line they do, but I've yet to have the first customer that wants a $ 4,000 leather sofa with "HARLEY - DAVIDSON" embroidered in the back cushion. I already have three leather lines, don't need four.
* $$$ Volume. The line has to generate numbers to keep it active, and I only get asked for Classic Leather maybe once per year. If a dealer doesn't do a certain annual volume of sales in a given line, they won't send out updates on leathers and fabrics - or even price books to the dealer. Nothing is more frustrating that that for a dealer to not have current Point of Sale material.
* My Memory. I pride myself in KNOWING my product lines inside and out. The more lines I carry, the harder it is to recall the nuances with a particular feature or the names of the ladies in Customer Service. My brain can only hold so much!
I am going to discontinue Southwood Upholstery immediately and mark down / clear out remaining floor stock. I may replace it with a line called "Wesley Hall" as soon as floor space becomes available. That's probably what I have my eye on next. Watch the Vendor Classified in the Flea Market next week for photos and killer pricing on remaining floor stock in Southwood.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Wow! I knew I loved this forum. I really appreciate that you give good information, and that you know not just the product lines you sell, but virtually ALL the major lines.
Yep, I heard the story about the H&M folks and Classic Leather...Our salesman knows all the history, and knows the family at Classic Leather. Interesting story! Thanks for your appraisal of Classic Leather.
Here's an image of what I'm looking at...You can zoom in it. (This is a huge piece!) as I said we would get the left and right love seats..each with a rolled arm, plus a corner chair, (not shown) to make a reasonably sized L shaped 107 x107 sectional.
Priced from 7950.00 to 9250.00 based on leather. Duane, if you have anything with a seat this deep...Please share, I'd love to shop your store!
Here's the Classic Leather Tamarack Sectional...A giant one! NOT WHERE I'M BUYING FROM! Any thoughts from you or your readers would be greatly appreciated.
Duane, we'd toss this front leather pillows aside to get the deep seat.
http://www.furniturebuy.com/classic-...-sofa-cl34419/
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Well, its an information / educational forum, not a sales pitch one, so I'll try to answer all questions as best I can but I'm really not all that well-versed in all product lines. Usually the only way you can tell how something is made is to tear it down or go make a factory visit, and my competitors tend to get pretty excited if I go in their store with my box cutter to cut open a competing brand :)
Wow - that's a very unique piece, pillow-on-pillow. I don't have anything like that, in fact I've not seen that anywhere before. $8K to $ 9K seems a tad high based on LS/LS/Corner configuration for Classic Leather - you may want to shop that one.
I can't tell the inside depth - that's not on that site you linked to and that model is not on the Classic Leather Web Site. I assume it was a Market Drop from Classic at the Spring Market, you may want to check and see if its still available to order.
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
It's the depth that makes it unique...Don't like the extra pillows. The specs show the seat depth Overall=47 Inside depth =21-29, remarks 29 no pillows. So it's the depth we're after...Will toss those front pillows aside for the full 29 inch depth.
Although last night noticed in the zoom feature that there are 'odd buttons?' on the bottom corners of each of the small front pillows...Wonder what that's about! Would have to nix that. Can anyone else see these buttons and know what they are and why they're there?
Not trying to sales pitch, but am desperately looking for a leather sectional with the same seat depth option to compare to!
(This sectional has been in their catalogue for at least a year...We dismissed it earlier when we were focused on the RH clone.
LOVE the Bradington Young Sterling leather sectional! Great look, but a very traditional seat depth. Here's the BY Sterling for someone looking for a beautiful leather sectional! http://www.bradington-young.com/amer...ONAL&style=221
Okay, want to educate some folks Duane? Check this out! Exact dimensions we want in a leather sectional, and it's a leather sectional at about half the price! Take a look, What a savings...About 4000,00 less than the Classic leather sectional, and the exact dimensions we want. What could be wrong? And American made. This is an education opportunity, I think. Deep seated leather sectional at ClubFurniture...http://www.clubfurniture.com/shgscleseso.html Now this piece would be fun to see the chainsaw take apart!
To be fair, I don't think you'd need to take a chainsaw to examine Classic Leather products. The tailoring on their work looks beautiful to me, and they have a long history of making quality furniture. I agree that it's very expensive...That's why I'm still looking for an option!
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
I don't think I have any makers doing a 29" depth interior sectional - are you sure you want it that deep? Thats REALLY deep - and makes it difficult to sit in with any back support at all (but its pretty good for lay down napping).
One of those reasons that Classic piece is more costly is all those extra pillows are a major expense, and it appears to be much larger and with a chaise in the photo link you sent. I can't see enough detail to pickup on front pillow 'buttons'. Have you seen this piece in person? Sure its still available? Manufacturers keep their websites pretty current these days and its not showing up on Classic's...
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Re: Shopping for a Deep Seat Sectional
Duane, would only order the right and left arm facing love seats and a corner chair to make up a much smaller sectional. An L shaped 107" x 107". I use the sectional like a chaise...My husband uses the rest. He pulls up a leather ottoman, and stretches out.
Seven years ago we went to Hickory, N.C. and special ordered an upholstered Century sectional. When it was delivered we despised it on sight. The seat depth was not what we expected. We immediately tossed out the back cushions and added a few big throw pillows. So the Century sectional we have now is about 28 inches deep. We like it like that.
Oddly, I'm only 117 pounds, and my husband about 155 pounds...It's that's just how we like to lounge.
I know Century Furntiture is supposed to be great!, but this (expensive sectional) we have...I'll give it to the first person who wants to haul if off. They 'sold us' on seat cushions with coils built in and they are so wonky! It has felt saggy to me for years; It is saggy. And Century has a sterling reputation. Go figure.
How about that deep seated sectional on the Clubfurniture site I linked to? Why shouldn't I buy that one, it's the exact same size as the Classic Leather one we want and it's half the price? What a deal...I could save about 4000.00! Hmmm, maybe I've learned something on this site.
Supposedly this Classic Leather sectional is available. Am going to call the factory tomorrow to make sure, and see if perhaps we can order it without the extra pillows. We would like to sit in the actual sofa as well, but the local store has another Classic leather sectional on the floor, and I'm guessing the difference might be in the leather we choose.
My understanding is that Classic Leather is the only well known company that cuts their leather in house. Seems like a benefit to me.