Hancock and Moore Price Increase
New price and leather regrades arrived today from Hancock and Moore. I am inundated with requests for prices and orders right now and will respond to them in the order they came in. Right now you may not get a reply on decorating advice or questions on how one compares to another. I will have to save those for when things calm down next week. Through Saturday I will be just taking orders for customers that know what they want.
This is terrible price increase and I knew it would be. While I don't publish prices here, I will make this exception on this one only just to show you what has happened or is going to happen. I just quoted this one for a client
Hancock and Moore NC7000-PR Recliner in HP Brownie Burnished is $ 3,415 through Sat 02/13/21. After that date $ 3,995. Cash/check prices, credit cards add 3%. Delivery fees additional.
That's a whopping $ 580 increase on a recliner (current MSRP on that is $ 7,065 for those of you who like those numbers). So don't say I didn't warn you! And I will not be able to retro into old prices after close of business on Saturday the 13th.
Oddly enough, they are not touching the Town and Country Promotion or the Your Way promotion at this time, but that's not because they intend to leave them as they are, they simply didn't get to them in time. Those WILL be changing, but in future weeks.
PLEASE DO NOT CALL AND ASK IF I RECEIVED YOUR EMAIL. I have over seventy (70) to work through, it will take time.
Re: Hancock and Moore Price Increase
Wow, 17% increase. That is pretty big, they must be confident in the sustained demand.
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Is that one of the leathers that went up maybe from grade 3 to grade 4? I assume any order with a leather that goes up a grade in addition to the general across the board price increase will be impacted the most. I REALLY wish I could order one this week.
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in my opinion, this is the big move that I was anticipating for several years now that Century owns Hancock and Moore. This re-grade of the leathers brings it in line with the Century leather grades (nine grades, each company) and the last of the Hancock and Moore original executives (Tim Rodgers) retired at the end of 2020. Now all the Execs at H&M are from Century, the Old Guard is all gone. Also, Century is a higher margin company than Hancock and Moore and this bring the margins in line as well. Century Furniture (I am a dealer for them as well) prefers to work in the Designer market as well, and focus on more boutique sales with Designers rather than retail stores like mine. This price increase is the shift towards all that, you will not see it ever go back to the way it was, its as much a marketing re-alignment as it is a price increase. Century never has sale periods, either - I think those are gone from H&M as well.
After Saturday the 13th, the deals will be in the Town and Country Program and their Your Way in promotional leathers, until they get around to changing those - and they will be changing as soon as they can get to them.
This is also why I am flooded with orders right now, a lot of people are realizing this is their last shot at getting H&M at good price points. I was at the store fifteen hours yesterday trying to keep up! Finally left at 11 p.m. as my brain couldn't process any more numbers or type one more email.
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It's kind of interesting how long Century can ride on the old fame of those great people in H&M! The huge CNC machines that they bought pretty much sealed the deal for me, the writing was on the wall in the last 2 years with price increases, shrinking Just in time/T&C program. I'm going to drive to the local dealer and order couple pieces today, but that's going to be it for me.
Re: Hancock and Moore Price Increase
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eastbayguy
It's kind of interesting how long Century can ride on the old fame of those great people in H&M! The huge CNC machines that they bought pretty much sealed the deal for me, the writing was on the wall in the last 2 years with price increases, shrinking Just in time/T&C program. I'm going to drive to the local dealer and order couple pieces today, but that's going to be it for me.
Eastbayguy,
What is a CNC machine?
It seems clear that I've not kept up with everything that's going on with H&M, and what I'm learning is rather distressing. H&M always has provided such well-made, beautifully upholstered pieces and offered a top-notch selection of gorgeous hides. I'm hoping I'm misunderstanding, but what I'm reading seems to be pointing to future offerings without the hands-on, time-honored handcraftsmanship and attention to detail...but, at a steep price increase.
Is my understanding correct?
There are a few more H&M pieces I've thought to be in my future, but not if the superior quality goes away and/or the new powers that be make it onerous for me to work directly with Duane.
I apologize if I'm way off base and welcome any clarification.
TXCajun
Re: Hancock and Moore Price Increase
Computerised numerically controlled (CNC) machines are electrical cum mechanical devices which are capable of controlling tools, with high-precision via a computer programming. It has been at least couple years since they started using CNC machines with 24mm plywood.
http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...hlight=factory
Re: Hancock and Moore Price Increase
There is no question this is a major change at Hancock and Moore, but I would caution everyone not to jump to conclusions about a decrease in quality and craftsmanship - I haven't seen it and I handle these pieces every single day. In spite of what some speculate, H&M has always been a low margin operation and was run very frugally by the founders, Jack Glasheen and Jimmy Moore. I became pretty good friends with Jack (and just spoke with him in December of this past year) and they ran a lean operation, and we would talk almost every Saturday morning on the phone.
I remember first time I went to the main plant, I had in the back of my mind that the HQ would be this beautiful, classic, brick-columned Federal style building with a gorgeous factory at the other end of a freshly-paved parking lot (Its funny how you invent these things in your head) and when I turned down Hancock and Moore Lane in Taylorsville NC, I saw to my right an old, broken-down white factory that looked like a big chicken processing plant (which in fact it was) and I drove right past it looking for what I thought H&M should look like. The road dead-ended with a couple of houses at the turnaround so I went back to the white factory that had no sign on it and drove through the chain link fence entrance. I drove around the facility twice looking for something that would be "Factory HQ" worthy but there was nothing. So I went though the door near the loading dock that simply said "Office" on it and that turned out to be the executive offices.
There I was warmly greeted and I said to Jack "I had a heck of a time finding this place, you don't even have a sign on the fence that says Hancock and Moore".
And Jack said to me "Signs cost money, Duane". That's how lean they ran. And Jack's car was an older Chevy Malibu, no Mercedes in the parking lot!
But Jack never scrimped on hiring the best workers, and it was known all around Catawba County that Hancock and Moore paid more than anyone else, so jobs there were coveted. And they never used any less than the best materials in their builds. That's how they built the brand. All meat, no sizzle. Most brands are the opposite, lots of sizzle and very little meat.
Back to my point about margins. H&M always ran about 10 points lower on margins (the profit they make) than other manufactuers. I was always stunned when I learned their percentages in a candid conversation with Jack one day. I see this marketing and pricing increase we have pending as more in line with industry margins, which keeps the company healthy. Yes, it's going to be a more expensive product to you as the consumer. But it's not all a margin drive, supply chain prices are affecting all the companies, they are all increasing. Covid has played hell with the normal course of things and there are real shortages and real increases hitting the manufactuers.
Don't be spooked off by the CNC machines, I have seen the run and they cut with amazing precision. In certain designs, the frame parts are actually stronger and more stable than using conventional solid woods. This is the future in the same way electric cars will overtake gas-engined ones, the handwriting is on the wall. Additionally, if you go tour the frame factory, you will see nothing but gray-haired men making those solid hardwood frames. The average age of that workforce is about 55 to 60, and they can't find younger men who want those jobs, it's a dying art.
There are always less expensive products out there. You can buy Bradington Young, American Leather, Classic Leather, Smith Bros, and so on who build at a tier level below H&M and will cost less. They won't have the build quality of Hancock and Moore, but they will be at lesser price points. The fact is there is product at every price point, so you will have lots of choices on which to purchase. I will still say that Hancock and Moore remains the class leader in leather furniture upholstery.
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New pricing for all Hancock and Moore + Jessica Charles (with the exception of the Your Way and Town and Country Promotions) goes into effect tomorrow. If you have a current quote from a dealer, be sure to get a re-quote, All dealers have the new price books now however only one copy was sent to each dealer so there may be some confusion at larger stores as they sort it all out.
Additionally, leather were re-graded and H&M did NOT send out any stickers for the in-store samples that you look through, so be aware it may be some time before the grades on the back of the leathers are changed. The correct grade is on the H&M Website and also the Retail Price Books that each dealer received.
My guess is a lot of dealers will get caught flat-footed on this and you *may* get a phone call after placing an order on 02/15/21 informing you there was a price and grade change and they cannot honor that price to continue your order. Be informed and ask them for the current price book and the current grades to avoid those unpleasantries.
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Here's the list of grade changes on Hancock and Moore, and these include most all of the very popular burnished leathers. A lot of customers who were "thinking" of ordering Hancock and Moore are going to be in for a pretty big shock on the current pricing that is now in effect. I fear it will take H&M out of the reach for many in the leathers they wanted to buy, we will find out in months to come.
All is not totally lost to still get a deal however. The Town and Country Program (its listed here in this section of the forum) is still in effect FOR NOW. Also, the Your Way Program in promotional leathers. These were all going to change on 02/15/21 (and everything in a burnished leather removed from the program) but it all was temporarily shelved as there was a bit of an uproar over all that was being taken out. So its getting revised and we will probably have another 4 to 5 weeks of using these as they now exist. Now you have a "heads up" on where the best deals are by far - Town and Country Program or Your Way Promotional. Especially anything in a burnished leather. I know I intend to order as many pieces as I can comfortably put into my warehouse because I don't think prices will ever again be this good. And if I'm ordering, you should be too.
I suspect the T&C Program will be cut back in the number of frames, the burnished leather items may be gone entirely, and you will see perhaps a 20% increase in price when the revisions come out.
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Re: Hancock and Moore Price Increase
Here's the list of grade changes on Hancock and Moore, and these include most all of the very popular burnished leathers. A lot of customers who were "thinking" of ordering Hancock and Moore are going to be in for a pretty big shock on the current pricing that is now in effect. I fear it will take H&M out of the reach for many in the leathers they wanted to buy, we will find out in months to come.
All is not totally lost to still get a deal however. The Town and Country Program (its listed here in this section of the forum) is still in effect FOR NOW. Also, the Your Way Program in promotional leathers. These were all going to change on 02/15/21 (and everything in a burnished leather removed from the program) but it all was temporarily shelved as there was a bit of an uproar over all that was being taken out. So its getting revised and we will probably have another 4 to 5 weeks of using these as they now exist. Now you have a "heads up" on where the best deals are by far - Town and Country Program or Your Way Promotional. Especially anything in a burnished leather. I know I intend to order as many pieces as I can comfortably put into my warehouse because I don't think prices will ever again be this good. And if I'm ordering, you should be too.
I suspect the T&C Program will be cut back in the number of frames, the burnished leather items may be gone entirely, and you will see perhaps a 20% increase in price when the revisions come out.
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Re: Hancock and Moore Price Increase
Hard to wrap my mind around, but cayman coffee whent from a grade 5 to a grade 9, which sounds terrible price wise, but I don't really even know what that means. Will an ottoman in that now cost as much as a sofa or are there going to be smaller increases from one grade to another now that there are more grades? I guess we will have to wait and see exactly what the impact is. I see the Capri leathers didn't move and they might actually be the better value for the quality of leather you are getting. I am still hoping to find a way to get a recliner in that some time.
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Grades are pricing steps. There used to be five price steps, now there are nine. While I have not done the match on the new grades, on the old system of five grades it was roughly 12 to 15% increase per step. I suspect these will be likewise.
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As I suspected, Hyde Park moved up. Just my own opinion, but I've never understood why that line wasn't already ranked a higher grade.
Yes, my husband and I adore the Capri hide on our sofa. It has an amazingly soft, glove leather hand. It is beautiful. However, my personal favorite is the Hyde Park hide we have on our two wingbacks. I love it because I like the silky hand and it has a terrific depth of color and I truly love the way it wears, showing marks, scuffs, etc. which easily rub out, if one chooses. Capri is superior and provides a fantastic hand and very refined look that pretty much stays the same as the day it arrived. Hyde Park is beautiful, feels terrific, and is wearing/aging just the way I love...like a gorgeous, vintage, English library chair.
Sorry to have gone sort of off topic. Yes, the price increases look to be stiff. Hoping I will be able to get the last few pieces on our to-buy list.
Duane, would you speak a bit more to the earlier statement regarding Century seemingly preferring to work with designers instead of mom-and-pop showrooms? Designers certainly have an important place and definitely can save one from making costly mistakes, but many customers prefer going solo. I trust your experience and vast knowledge. Your guidance was on-point when we were purchasing our sofa and wingbacks. I hate the idea that Century might come between me and the person I choose to work with. Is that what you see coming?
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I don't have any firm information, just speculation. Century has always been geared towards the designer market and the higher end servicing the upper income earners. They don't run "sales" and promotions. Rather they offer hundreds of customization options and cater to designers/clientele looking for unique, high quality items. Think Architectural Digest I carry very little in my store, not because I don't like what they build (I do), but my client base as whole won't pay their prices. A USA-made dining table and set of (8) chairs can easily be $ 15,000 for example. If I were to put that in my store, the table and chairs will get shopworn before they sell, resulting in a loss due to markdowns to move it.
Here's an Example of a piece I have in my store that so far, no one has seriously even looked at. This is a Century AE9-212 Endicott Chest by renowned designer Thomas O'Brien. I was able to buy this as a Market Sample at a very good price. Through a Designer, this piece would sell for appx $ 8,800 to a client. My store price if I were to order it straightway is $ 5,625. However, because I got a Market Showroom special on this one only $ 3,249. And the only two comments it has generated from anyone is "boy, that's expensive", and "will you call me when it's $ 2,000?". So if I can't move this unit at $ 3,249, why would I want to order stock at $ 5,625? And yet, a Designer who has a $ 100,000 budget for a client can bring this in to the project at $ 8.800 for a client. So that's where the market is for this category of goods.
Attachment 13720
My Brother in Law is in this category. He's wealthy, and he and his wife don't want to be bothered with picking things out, even though they both know I can help him save quite a bit of money being in the business. They prefer to hire a Decorator, pay them $ 100,000 and when they walk into one of the three homes they own it's all done. When you make $ 3 million +a year in income, you don't really care if the chest is $ 8,800 or $ 3,249. That's the Century client and customer - through a designer who installs turnkey, right down to the lamps, picture frames and mattresses on the beds.
Hancock and Moore has always had lower profit margins than other manufacturers. I know that's hard for some people to comprehend, but it's true. Now that Century owns them, I am not surprised they are bringing up pricing closer to industry margins as a whole. I think the 5% Off Sale Periods are gone forever, but there will still be Town and Country promotions. For 2021, I know they are concentrating on efficiencies and want to get back to 6 week production times. So you will see less new product introduced and them working hard to improve on getting pieces out the door.
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Thanks for the information, Duane. I get it.
My sister is the same as your brother-in-law, although not with regards to the budget size. She absolutely will not spend time making design decisions, selections, etc. She does have a site meeting with her designer in order to nail down "the look" and then hands over a housekey. That certainly is one way to go and more power to her! I'm not that person. I enjoy working out my design, doing the research, treasure hunting, and so on. To each his own.
It seems Century has made the business decision that those in the market for H&M are (should be?) less sensitive about price than what they see as the average consumer. That's perfectly legitimate as they know what profit margin they want. That's business.
We'll remain hopeful that we will be able to get our pieces, but I'm telling you here and now that we'll do that only through you. You are the king with your experience and freakishly detailed knowledge. That level of assistance simply is not available in our location. It's a pita dealing with shipping, but having you in the equation makes all the difference.
You are much appreciated!
TXCajun
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"You are the king with your experience and freakishly detailed knowledge"
OK, You made me laugh at my desk reading that! Guilty as charged. I think it stems from my desire to really be able to answer client's questions well and truthfully to the best of my ability, because I know as a consumer myself there is nothing more frustrating that know-nothing salespeople or false information, or failure to follow through from a business. So I really dive in on things to get the answers, and that means trips to the factories and talking to the workers, because although I love the gals in Customer Service and the Management Team, they can't tell me WHY an arm is attached to a 6738 Sebring chair the way it is, but the man putting the frame together will spend 10 minutes explaining the joinery to me - just happy someone actually cares about his work. That's the fun of the business to me and getting to know the faces at the end of the phone calls at Hancock and Moore. Good people there, they work hard and care.
There's a post here today on a Capri leather issue and it's actually killing me to keep quiet about it. I know exactly what the issue is but can't interfere because that client is not my customer and I can't be put into a position where the consumer is going back to their selling dealer saying "This dealer in Virginia said.." Then that dealer - mad-as hell - will call the factory and file a complaint about me interfering in their business and they would be right to do so. Suffice to say, if that was my customer it would be handled quickly, easily and with no drama. And that's because I know what is happening with that leather in that particular situation. There is a difference in how dealers handles issues and as much as I would love to help, I can't in that circumstance.
I am 66 years old now. I can't load sofas like I used to, my body can't take it. I used to be able to unpack ten sofas a day, bring five in the store and load five for delivery in the truck all by myself and be ready to go the rest of the day. Now, three sofas and two recliners will wipe me out and I can barely get out of my office chair afterwards. And forget about dual recliner sofas, too heavy for me anymore. I am think of retiring in the next few years, but my adult kids don't want the business and Hancock and Moore's VP said to me in a conversation we had yesterday that I can't retire! "You have too loyal a following and know too much about the Hancock and Brand to sail off into the sunset" However, they said I can have a dealership no matter where I retire to (it's too cold in Wash DC) so we will see. I'm not much on sitting around gazing at sunsets and I don't play golf. Not going to Texas though, its REALLY cold there. lol. Surprised you have power to reply on your computer reading about it all in the news and all the electrical failures for millions in your state.
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Duane,
Please don't retire! Ok, as much as we do need your expertise, you retire when you want. You've earned that!
Texans certainly have had a rough go with this winter storm and the power grid issues. Other than north Texas, we really aren't used to extended periods of ice and snow. And, by extended I mean more than a couple of days. Heading toward a week and that's significant for us. Yep, we do see some winters with a bit of snow, sleet, and sometimes have issues with getting around on icy roads. This kind of winter storm event isn't "unprecedented", but it is rare for us. We are used to dealing with 115 degree summer days, but not this.
My area just came back online with uninterrupted power for almost 24 hours, now! Other areas remain with either periods of scheduled blackouts or absolutely no power since this started. Some have no water because of either the rolling blackouts messing up the water plant mechanics or the freezing water lines/plumbing.
My sister lives in Louisiana and they (her area) are having the same problems with power and water. Her power has been restored after three days of no power and then rolling blackouts, but they have been told not to expect restoration of water until this coming Saturday. For some reason, these things happening in Louisiana aren't making the news like Texas. Maybe it has to do with the population size? Maybe it has to do with ugly politics?
This has been very bad for many, many Texans and absolutely tragic for others. Everybody is doing the best they can to help themselves and others. We'll figure out how to manage better for a next time, no doubt.
TXCajun
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OK, well your mention of retirement might get me to find the money for my recliner this year for sure, lol. I hope if you decide to fully retire at some point you keep an online presence to share your extensive knowlege. :)
Re: Hancock and Moore Price Increase
Funny, I placed the order last Saturday (my wife wanted another Author Chair in Buckingham Walnut Burnished with Cameo Mocha gimp/welt) and they charged me $3,300 (it was $3,020 without Covid price hike from local dealers, they were using 45-46% off MSRP before Covid and 52% now).
As Century (evil overlords!) is bringing move value to the shareholders and burnishing is a manual/time consuming process they moved burnished hides to Class IV, so here is your 16.5% hike. But there is still a value in Italian "pull-ups" Tiburon/Tuscany as they stayed in Class III and there is only 2.5-3% price increase.
I ordered all time favorite "072 Campaign Cocktail Ottoman" in 2 tone as well, Tuscany harness for the top and Cameo Brown Burnished for the bottom, so MSRP moved from $3,495 for Class III to $3,585, 2.6% increase and to $4,005 for Class IV (burnished), 14.6% price hike.