Looking for new furniture for front room

After weeks of lurking, and learning a lot, I'm looking for input regarding new furniture for our front room. I'm looking to replace 15+ year old fabric covered England sleeper sofa and double reclining loveseat with leather. As the sleeper function on the sofa has been used something like twice, I believe a stationary sofa will best suit our needs. The fly in the ointment comes with the loveseat...DH and I prefer to be attached at the hip (we're cute that way :rolleyes:) and are therefore not necessarily interested in separate chairs. DH loves the recliner however <sigh> and I'm resigned to getting him his own tilt-back chair as a compromise for his naps. Recliners are not practical due to our ferrets (we have 2) that use the arms of the recliners as a hidey hole (not to mention my fear about them getting caught in the recliner mechanism...but we've had ferrets for years without incident).

I keep reading about the comfort of the H&M Austin series but I prefer the aesthetics of the 2057 Grainger (I prefer the Grainger's legs over the Austin's bun foot along with the Grainger not having a T-cushion seat). Although I'm not keen on the bustle back (our current furniture is bustle backed and quite flattened at that), I'm willing to compromise on this for his chair in the interest of his comfort (he's worth it). I must admit that I had him sit in a tufted back chair by Mayo (link: http://www.mayofurniture.com/931.htm ) and, surprisingly, he thought it very comfy and thought he could nap in it easily. It is similar to the Author chair (which I adore) but I think it wold be too large for the space.

I vacillate between a sofa/loveseat combo or a sectional for the main seating. I'm not certain I like the idea of everyone sitting together on a sectional when we have company (I'm kinda fussy about who invades my personal space), but if I go with a sofa/loveseat set, with a chair for DH, I'm afraid I'm going to overpower my ~15'x16' room with so much furniture! Although clutter tends to accumulate, generally I'm more of a less is more type.

Originally I was thinking a single or two cushion seat but I've since learned that the fewer cushions on the seat, the more wing-effect lift (I don't know how to explain it otherwise) one has when someone sits...so 3 cushion it is, if a sofa. I like the looks of a tight back (we both like the looks of the 4487 McNary), but have also learned that, unless tufted, tight backs are not particularly comfortable for lounging. I do love the idea of replaceable cushion cores to maintain comfort as the years roll by. I also don't care for ornate legs. I like roll arms for comfort, but track arms for sleekness.

The problem with a sectional is DH, who sits on the right, absolutely must have a place to park his beer. With his sitting right, that would put him in the corner. I've suggested one of those sofa tables where the legs tuck in under the sofa, but they ain't very purty...although he is quite handy and he could build something (no place to put his beer would certainly be enough motivation to get that done!).

We live in our front room...watch TV, nap, eat, drink, be merry. The lab-mix dog does get on the furniture in our absence, although we have throws we put in place to prevent excessive soiling (lord how I loathe cleaning the sofa and loveseat, hence the transition to leather).

I'm considering no less than a semi-aniline cover, although I'm aware that a servicability of 2 would better suit our lifestyle. The post dwainw posted with the results of his testing a couple of leather swatches (http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...loveseat/page2) was a godsend to me. I worked with leather y-e-a-r-s ago in the apparel industry and I'm somewhat spoiled regarding the hand of leather. I'm prepared for the cleaning upkeep to go with a higher maintenance serviceability to get the feel I desire, after all I'm the one who wipes down the glass and chrome after every shower in our wetroom to keep it spot-free with our hard water...upping the leather cleaning from the recommended twice a year to four times a year should not be a big reach for me. I also prefer the character that arises as the less protected leather patinas with use and age.

If I went with a sofa/loveseat combination, I'm not necessarily interested in a series matched set but would like the furniture to play off each piece aesthetically. Nor am I interested in matching the leather covers. I would prefer each piece to stand alone while playing well with each other.

I've attached photos of our current layout and I have done a layout with the icovia planner, using Duane's login (file name: Childers current LR). I've also added a photo of our soapstone woodstove on our south wall and our north facing front room window (the windows were replaced last year and, yes, those are sheets in lieu of draperies so input on what to do about a window treatment is also welcome. We used to have 2" pretend wood blinds and hubby is not so keen on them again, he'd rather see sheers and drapes on a double rod).

I've also considered swapping the TV wall to the other side and floating (part of?) the furniture but I'm afraid that's going to encroach on traffic through the room.

I would appreciate any input fellow forum members would like to share. Hopefully I've not provided TMI.

Tammy

Here's the 2 other attachments...

Tammy

Hi Tammy,

In looking at your room, your layout as currently shown is really the only practical one I see. The Stove dominates, and because of the flue its obviously not going anywhere. Moving the TV really won't get you much as that wall is short and compromised by the door on the right of the TV. Because the room is smallish, I'm going with a sectional as my first choice to maximize the seating area and comfort, and replace the coffee table with an ottoman that will allow you to use the sectional as a recliner of sorts. That gives you some good 'snuggle' use as well, but the limitation is there's no where to easily put a drink on the piece other than getting a tray from Pier 1, etc. and setting it on the sectional. We can customize drink holders in the arms, but then your hubby would have to sit near the arm itself to use it. Maybe he'd be willing to do that?

Leather is easy. Wipe n' go, a damp cloth will do it most the time then a couple times a year use the cleaners/conditioners for a complete cleaning.

If you do sofa/loveseat combo, I don't see where you have room for a recliner, you'll have to put an incliner into the loveseat as you have it drawn on the Room Planner. I laid out what is an Austin Sectional with Incliner in one position on the Icovia Room Planner, take a look and see what you think. (Childers LR 1).

Now, if you want to get the ultimate Couch Potato/Football Watchin' sofa, the Rodeo Power Station has it all with dual power recliners on the ends and flip-up arms that allow you to store remotes, Doritos, etc in the compartments. Heck, we could probably get H&M to install a beer chiller in one of the arms:

http://www.hancockandmoore.com/produ...productid=2034

Duane

Duane,

Thank you for replying with your thoughts, they are appreciated and close to what I expected. With your suggestion of a sectional, are you also indicating a tilt-back chair to be out of the question due to our room size? There's that vacant spot in the corner by the kitchen that I was thinking about putting the tilt-back...before our remodel my computer desk was there.

While the Rodeo is certainly a spectacular piece (LOL that you "got" what I was saying about DH's needs), I want to stay away from recliners (anything that opens in the lower front) as that allows access for the ferrets. I can only imagine how much eye rolling you do in trying to cater to each client's needs, what can I say? I'm a critter person.

I've an odd-ball question for you...would there be any ramifications (i.e. warranty) to our affixing hardware cloth over the bottom dust covers on H&M furniture? This is, again, to keep the carpet sharks (ferrets) out of the furniture.

Tammy

Giggle. I wish I'd thought of hardware cloth when my cats were kittens. I swore that one of them was headed for medical school to become a surgeon. She ripped open the neatest little slit in the dust cover of a chair. It was just large enough for her climb in and nap. I didn't know about it until I tore the house apart fearing that she has somehow gotten outside.

LOL, amazing what we put ourselves through for our children and critters, eh?:rolleyes: A dozen or so years ago, when we first got ferrets, my husband and I had planned an evening out with friends. When it was time to meet them we searched high and low for the one we called "Wee One" (for good reason). We couldn't find her anywhere and I immediately assumed she'd gotten out of the house. Needless to say, with me in tears, we didn't go anywhere that night. A couple of hours later she finally came out from inside the sleeper sofa, batting her eyes and yawning <sigh> Other than one other time, when she really did get out but that's a whole other story, we stopped worrying about them (at least outwardly). They do keep us on our toes, I just don't want them in the furniture anymore, they have enough hidey holes around the house, thank you very much!

No issues at all. If you order H&M pieces, you can send them the hardware cloth and they'll apply it on the pieces for you at no extra charge.

Looking at the room planner, I sure don't see any room to put a tilt back chair/ottoman in there in conjunction with a Sectional, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. No one knows the room better than you do.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drcollie

No issues at all. If you order H&M pieces, you can send them the hardware cloth and they'll apply it on the pieces for you at no extra charge.

---

Wow! That's impressive. It never would have crossed my mind to request that. It's a great idea for those of us who share our homes with fur people who have claws.

"Wow!" is right!! I would never have asked to have the manufacturer apply the hardware cloth but it's a wonderful idea as the crafts(wo)men would ensure proper installation without creating an integrity issue with the frame or covers.

Yesterday I had a chance to take DH out for some test fits of H&M at our 2 local retailers. It was an eye opening experience for both of us. Although neither retailer had any Austins on the floor, we did find a couple of Journey loungers along with a Miller and a Rugby.

DH found the Rugby to be too short in back height (although he's only 5'9", he tends to be a might long bodied). He preferred the sit of the Journey over the Miller. The Miller we found had the Ultra Down seat, as did the Journey (at least I assume it was the seat that was Ultra Down on the Journey).

Can the Journey be built as a tilt-back instead of a recliner?

We also found a Stickley Santa Fe chair-and-a-half that we found to be comfortable width-wise for the two of us. I see 8140NB (Austin High-Back chair-and-a-half) is available and is slightly wider than the Stickley we found (which we don't care for as far as comfort but gave us a gauge on ID width).

So now, Duane, I'm curious about your thoughts on the following:

1948 Princeton sofa (I like the tight-back and the shorter length) OR 1943 Bradley 2-seater
8140 NB Austin chair-and-a-half in lieu of a loveseat
7039 Journey (customized as a tilt-back instead of the reclining lounger)

Is this still too much for our little room? The chair in the NW corner, the Austin where the current loveseat is on the E wall, the sofa along with N wall just moved a little W to accommodate the chair (see Childers LR2 in your Icovia account).

What are your thoughts on the compatability of styles? I suppose another option, as I'm just not sure how we feel about a sectional, could be a loveseat instead of a sofa on the N wall.

I was pleasantly surprised about the nice hand of the Document Chestnut leather, I was expecting something with a plastic-y feel given it's highly processed.

I also noticed on bustle-back chairs that the bustles flip over for access to the back side and there were zippers. So one could replace the cores if need be? I was under the impression that an outside repair tech would need to do the replacing.

As always, I appreciate your expertise and opinions.

Tammy

Yes, the Journey lounger is a top-of-the-line comfort piece, though I think the Miller can usually hold its own with it and my personal favorite, the Sadler has to be included in that group, Tammy. The Rugby is a more compact recliner than the others, for sure. They don't build the Journey as a tilt-back, sorry! There were a couple new tilt backs rolled out last month, the Kendall and the Allison, which you can see here:

http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...COCK-amp-MOORE

The 1948 Princeton I've never seen in person. Looking at the specs, its deep-seated, but someone shorter than average in back height.
The 1943 Bradley is always a good sitter, I like all the pieces in this series (the Tilt Back Chair is good, too)
The 8140 NB is basically a shortened loveseat, and its a good piece as well.
They're not going to make you a customer Journey Tilt Back at anything approaching a sane price <g>

I have to say I'm not crazy about the LR2 plan. It looks like a near-sectional with a couple pieces missing. I think a sectional would give you a much more cleaner, put -together look in the room. I see what you're trying to do though, and thats get a stand along recliner in the room to watch TV in and still have a sofa/loveseat. I'm going to stay with the sectional recommendation and a nice big comfy ottoman, or a motion piece in the far left sectional seating spot.

Document feels nice, but I have to say its my second least favorite leather in the H&M lineup. (Challenger is the worst!) While Document is an important leather for H&M, its heavily processed (like Cheez Whiz in a jar) and I've seen a few instances where pigment has come off the hide in small spots. There are better leathers in the line.

Yes, bustle back cushions are EASY to replace the cores. Zip 'em in, Zip 'em out. Piece of cake.

Glad to help!

I tried to locate the Kendall & Allison you referenced but am unable to locate them due to my difficulties in reading the tags.

OK, OK, OK, I guess it'll be a sectional. As we were unable to sit a sectional by H&M I really don't know how DH will respond to the lack of a full out, reclining back though.

The pix I've seen of the Austin show the back pitch to be somewhat reclining though. How does the pitch compare to the Journey, which I also see is available as a sectional (but at the same time, I note the Journey back height may not have a high enough back to support hubby's napping brain <wink>).

So the next series of questions:

1. How is the corner on the http://www.hancockandmoore.com/produ...roductid=1736? Is it a 90 deg or a radius curve?
2. How do the sectional pieces keep from sliding apart? And are they easy to slide apart when one wants them apart (cleaning, moving, adjusting, etc.)?
3. So would H&M build in a tilt-back on the left end instead of a recliner? Yes, there's a theme here <shrug>
4. I would prefer a different style of foot...oh heck, I guess I should stop trying to reinvent the wheel, huh? So I won't ask about single cushion backs either since I originally was dead set against a bustle back piece <sigh>
5. What ottoman would you recommend with the sectional? Given the scale of our room.
6. In reading through previous posts, it appears H&M offers sale pricing on non-T&C units in February and August, with a typical savings of 5%. Is this accurate or do you anticipate a "sale" in the immediate future?
7. Are you tired of leading me around by the hand yet?

The next step, after reviewing your replies to above, will be to PM/email you regarding pricing quotes.

Thanks again,
Tammy (the hard-headed, thick-brained one):o

Yes, until they have the new items up on the H&M website, you can't easily find the new pieces - just have to tab through the photos and read the tags, sorry!

HA! Well, since DH is paying for it (and you too, Tammy) you have to get what you want. I can toss out suggestions, but ultimately get what works for you - not what I or anyone else says is the best layout, etc.

OK, now for questions:

* The Journey has more back pitch than the Austin, but just a little bit. Back should be high enough on the Journey (but if he really wants a recliner, that's not going to substitute for one).

* That's a radius curve on the Austin High Back Sectional Quarter Round.

* No Tilt Back Mod possible, for sure. (I called and asked the custom dept)

* You can change legs, the trick is to try to pick one that's the same overall height +/- 1/4" so that you are not altering the pitch and angles of the piece (back legs won't change). Get too tall a foot/leg on there and it completely changes the way a piece can feel. Usually there is a nominal upcharge to change legs.

* You don't want single back cushions. It completely changes the way it feels and I think it cuts the comfort level significantly. That said, if you got to have them, we can do it.

* An ottoman in the 40" square range or so. You want one that's 2" lower than the seat height for max. comfort. I like the # 072 ottoman, and have it cut down an inch for 18" overall height.

* Correct, we normally have a 5% off sale period in Feb and Aug. - that's a Keeping Room Store Sale Period. That's the only sale periods of the year.

* Naww....so far, you're still being easy on me <G>



*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drcollie

Yes, until they have the new items up on the H&M website, you can't easily find the new pieces - just have to tab through the photos and read the tags, sorry! No apology necessary at all, I know the energy that goes into shooting photos while trying to conduct business at the same time and appreciate the fact that you still manage to get it done and share with forum members. The previews are well worth it, IMHO

HA! Well, since DH is paying for it (and you too, Tammy) you have to get what you want. I can toss out suggestions, but ultimately get what works for you - not what I or anyone else says is the best layout, etc. But I do appreciate your insight, experience and opinions. You provide me the opportunity to not make the same mistakes that others may have made over the years.

OK, now for questions:

* The Journey has more back pitch than the Austin, but just a little bit. Back should be high enough on the Journey (but if he really wants a recliner, that's not going to substitute for one). My opinion, FWIW, is if he wants to recline, we have a perfectly serviceable waterbed one room away (unkind? At least he wouldn't be bothered by the menagerie if he moves the "ladder" at the end of the bed). Bear in mind, this is a man that can catnap in any position, provided he's not in motion (I've seen him nap in some of the strangest, most awkward positions...he can shut down at the drop of a hat). I also think that if he tucks himself into the corner and lays out onto the ottoman, that it would likely be almost recliner-like (almost <wink>)

Regarding the comment about the Journey being high enough, is that in reference to a Journey sectional at 39" The H&M site indicates 43½" on the Journey Lounger and 41" on the Austin High-Backs. I thought it would be best to keep the back height 40+" so now I'm curious if losing that additional 1" on the Journey sectional makes that big of a difference...I understand this is subjective

* That's a radius curve on the Austin High Back Sectional Quarter Round. So how far away from the wall corner would the back of the quarter round be? 6" or so? And the Journey sectional is also a radius curve? As noted by the "Q" in the item #?

* No Tilt Back Mod possible, for sure. (I called and asked the custom dept) Thanks for making the call, I'm certain you have a lot more important things to do than to make silly alteration calls to CS. I guess I just need to start calling around to out-of-area H&M retailers to see if anyone has a sectional on the floor and drive up to sit. Unfortunately, with the impending Holiday Season and DH performing our work at Food plants (plants need to be down for us to do our work), our available time is going to be very limited.

* You can change legs, the trick is to try to pick one that's the same overall height +/- 1/4" so that you are not altering the pitch and angles of the piece (back legs won't change). Get too tall a foot/leg on there and it completely changes the way a piece can feel. Usually there is a nominal upcharge to change legs. Really?!? And here I thought I let you off the hook with my comment about not reinventing the wheel. So, are there some legs that immediately come to mind that might be a good substitution over the bun foot? I'm not asking you to go through your catalogs so don't expend a lot of time on my inquiry. By your suggestion of the 072 ottoman below (which is what I was also thinking), would the Campaign legs work on the Austin series?

* You don't want single back cushions. It completely changes the way it feels and I think it cuts the comfort level significantly. That said, if you got to have them, we can do it. Understood

* An ottoman in the 40" square range or so. You want one that's 2" lower than the seat height for max. comfort. I like the # 072 ottoman, and have it cut down an inch for 18" overall height. Do they "cut down" the height at the legs or in the body of the ottoman?

* Correct, we normally have a 5% off sale period in Feb and Aug. - that's a Keeping Room Store Sale Period. That's the only sale periods of the year. That's what I suspected. I'm hopeful to actually have the new furniture in place before the February sale period.

* Naww....so far, you're still being easy on me <G>
*

---

Question on "build" timing as the Holidays affect H&M's schedule. Does H&M typically stop building new pieces prior to the Holidays to prevent something sitting on the bench being an incomplete mid-build during the Christmas shut-down? I'm just curious about the potential for a backlog queue and how that might affect a typical delivery schedule (which would be 8-12 weeks+, depending on cover availability, yes?)

Many, many thanks,
Tammy

Hi Tammy,

A sectional with an ottoman is surprisingly comfortable, as good (or better) than a recliner in my book. You do have to make sure you have that appx. 2" drop on the ottoman height, however.

As to back heights, H&M has a 2" tolerance from production specs so keep that in mind on things. Back and seat pitch angles come into play as well as overall height, and the Journey is plenty tall at 39" for most folks. I'm just shy of 6' tall, and have more than enough back height on a Journey unit.

No idea of the 'gap in the back' on a sectional. I called H&M and they don't know either! They would have to put one together and measure it. Just as a guess (and its only a guess) I'd say 10" to 18". Maybe someone else here on the forum has a sectional with a curved Quarter Round and they could measure.

Best way to look at substitute legs is to browse the H&M website and pic one out that you like. I think the # 072 foot would look undersized on the Austin Sectional and out of place, but it probably would fit.

Cut downs of just 1" are just taken in the foam atop the ottoman.

H&M goes full bore in production, right up to Christmas. They clear out a LOT of pieces right before they break for a week's vakay. We're still taking orders for before-Christmas delivery right now, but that's mainly for local business. I think the time window to get something built and delivered by a white glove service is just about expired. If the cover is in stock, there' a 5 week build time (appx) and 2 to 2.5 weeks transit. So at this point, I won't promise Christmas delivery. As for shut-down time, they close for a week is all, doesn't interrupt them too much.

Glad to help!

Hmmm, weird, I replied last evening but I don't see it posted. I did get interrupted with surprise family-company, so maybe it timed out. I guess we'll check my elephant memory (or what I refer to as "a man's worst nightmare, an excellent memory in a woman").

Going back to my question about sectional sections...how do the sections stay together? And are they easily pulled apart when needed for adjusting, repositioning, cleaning, etc. I have to be able to get back to the floor corner on a frequent basis (don't ask, don't tell policy...I have ferrets).

Regarding final build dimensions and the 2" tolerance...if the Journey is indicated as a 39" height, does that really mean the actual built height could be anywhere from 37 - 41"? How often are they short?:eek: And I assume the sectional would be built in total at the same time so the tolerances on the individual sections would be matched through the entire piece.

Regarding the Ottoman, since the information you supplied about the ottoman height being "cut-down" from the foam/top side was based on the height of the Austin group, does this information change since I'm now looking at the 1" shorter Journey group? And do they cut down the ottoman during the build of the sectional (since I'm now over-analyzing tolerances)?

Regarding the Christmas period shut down, I'm certainly not expecting delivery by Christmas, even if one were to assume I knew which leather(s) I was choosing. I just know, in my DH and my line of work, how difficult it is to pick up where one left off after breaking for a week so I didn't know if they left items "on the bench" when they break or if they make sure all builds are completed prior to going on holiday. Just a curiosity question.

I did send you a PM last evening regarding quotes. I see it's in my "Sent Items" folder so I assume it made it to you following the recent forum upgrade. Let me know if it didn't and I'll try to push it to you.

Thanks for your patience with my near rabid obsession about pesky details.
Tammy

Oh! I remember something else I'd asked in last evening's unposted reply...is the Journey Lounger ever built as a bustle back? We sat in so many styles over the weekend that they've all run together. Of the styles we had available to "sample," the Journey was DH's fav...he seems to think it was a bustle back and the pic I took has him lounging in it so I can't see the back cushions <doh!>

We're having a discussion of bustle back vs single cushion (which means Austin vs Journey). If the Journey is never built as a bustle back, then the bustle back discussion becomes a moot point and the Journey sectional becomes the front runner.

I've told him, based on my forum reading, that one can add lumbar support in the form of a pillow...he claims he doesn't like a pillow (has he tried one? No-o-o-o :rolleyes:)

Thanks again!
Tammy

The forum was having some time out issues yesterday around 5:30 p.m. I was trying to load some photos and gave up. I suspect it was something on the server at godaddy.com where the site is hosted.

The sectionals at H&M are held together with spring-loaded 'sawtooth' alligator clips. They're designed to snatch the unit tightly and the catch can be released for moving the pieces, but its not something you would want to do on a regular basis. Its unwieldy to access the catches though I suppose one could get good at it, they're located in the middle of each section so it involves a stretch under the piece to trip the releases. Its going to look similar to this, one piece bolted onto each section.

Attachment 1868

Correct on dimensional tolerances. Being a handmade piece, its going to vary depending on how much foam/padding is put on by the craftsman. I don't usually see variances more then 1/2" day in and day out, but H&M reserves the right to have up to 2" tolerances. If you look into the fine print from upholstery makers - they all have it. What you can do however, is specify that the piece be made no less than the posted dimensions, or no larger. You can pick one or the other, but not both. Yes, a sectional is going to be even and mated - it is a Hancock and Moore, after all!

H&M can cut down almost all pieces if needed. If its not to much, they can take it from the foam, but eventually they have to modify the frame and that gets into additional customization charges.

I actually see less interruption in production of pieces over the Holidays than I would expect. What DOES get interrupted are the delivery services. That week or so off seems to bog them down and it takes them a bit to get back to normal.

I'll have your prices for you in your PM's.....

If they were to build the Journey as a Bustle Back it would become a new model and series. I've not seen one done that way or even proposed. But take a look at a 1044 Sadler, for its sort-of like a modified Journey and has that lumbar support. Oh, and guys don't use pillows behind our backs - that's a form of weakness!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drcollie

The forum was having some time out issues yesterday around 5:30 p.m. I was trying to load some photos and gave up. I suspect it was something on the server at godaddy.com where the site is hosted. Ah, yes...Go Daddy. We use them for our email hosting and I know of the server problems you speak (which invariably happen at the most inopportune times).

The sectionals at H&M are held together with spring-loaded 'sawtooth' alligator clips. They're designed to snatch the unit tightly and the catch can be released for moving the pieces, but its not something you would want to do on a regular basis. Its unwieldy to access the catches though I suppose one could get good at it, they're located in the middle of each section so it involves a stretch under the piece to trip the releases. Its going to look similar to this, one piece bolted onto each section.

Attachment 1868

That's an interesting creature...I imagine I could get pretty quick releasing the catches with practice. Maybe I could go up against the fellow that inserts cushions in a race, eh? Does the spring tension start relaxing with multiple openings and closings or, better yet, can one order replacements? It might not be a bad idea to have a set on hand in case of failure (we love spare parts at our house)

Correct on dimensional tolerances. Being a handmade piece, its going to vary depending on how much foam/padding is put on by the craftsman. I don't usually see variances more then 1/2" day in and day out, but H&M reserves the right to have up to 2" tolerances. If you look into the fine print from upholstery makers - they all have it. What you can do however, is specify that the piece be made no less than the posted dimensions, or no larger. You can pick one or the other, but not both. Yes, a sectional is going to be even and mated - it is a Hancock and Moore, after all!

H&M can cut down almost all pieces if needed. If its not to much, they can take it from the foam, but eventually they have to modify the frame and that gets into additional customization charges. Is the definition of "too much" determined at the time of build? IOW, when would we know if we'd be looking at a customized piece? At time of order or at time of build?

I actually see less interruption in production of pieces over the Holidays than I would expect. What DOES get interrupted are the delivery services. That week or so off seems to bog them down and it takes them a bit to get back to normal.

I'll have your prices for you in your PM's.....

If they were to build the Journey as a Bustle Back it would become a new model and series. I've not seen one done that way or even proposed. But take a look at a 1044 Sadler, for its sort-of like a modified Journey and has that lumbar support. Oh, and guys don't use pillows behind our backs - that's a form of weakness!

---

ROFL!!! Seems to me you men folk seem to have a lot of perceived forms of weakness...and men claim us women are complicated?!?! Regardless, it would appear that I've "won" the bustle back argument...for now

I don't know if the springs fatigue over time, because we only put them together once, maybe twice as new furniture and generally never hear about it afterwards. But they are cheap, a cleat is only $ 4 or so.

If we're doing customs, once we have the models locked down and the specs, I call and find out charges to do so - if any.

Stupid question # 643 - yes, I know the adage "a stupid question is an unasked question" as it's one of my many mantras with my employees (my favorite is that I don't need children as I have employees), but still...

This one's regarding swatches. So what, exactly is the purpose of reviewing swatches? Since they're cut from the "scraps," the don't well represent the texture for the finished piece and, since the color can vary something like 20%+/-, they don't well represent the pigment of the cover at the time of the build. So what am I looking for when I receive swatches?

I just want to get it into my pea brain what the expectation of the final product after choosing covers from swatches might be. More importantly, I'll need to explain to DH what the end result may be after playing with swatches.

Thanks for your patience,
Tammy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Us+2 ferts&theDog

So what, exactly is the purpose of reviewing swatches? Since they're cut from the "scraps," the don't well represent the texture for the finished piece and, since the color can vary something like 20%+/-, they don't well represent the pigment of the cover at the time of the build. So what am I looking for when I receive swatches?

---

Depends on your starting point. Anything is better than the photos of the samples on the H&M site. At the very least you get a ballpark idea of how particular leathers look and feel. For example, Antelope is shinier than Quintessence. You also get to construct your own tests for abrasion and staining in your own home with your own stuff. You can see if the ferrets have a fondness for scratching or nibbling any of the options. (My cats all prefer natural fibers, but they each have very definite opinions about various leathers.)

Ah, yes, kitties...ours, who is over the Rainbow Bridge, also preferred fabric...like the front of the arm of our reclining loveseat :rolleyes: The ferrets, however, have a preference for silicone :D, but they're diggers too (as evidenced by the hole behind one of the back cushions in our sleeper sofa <sigh> and the missing dust covers under both the loveseat and sofa. They're lucky they're so darn cute...

I do plan to play with the swatches with regard to spilling and staining. Actually I hope to reconstruct similar tests to what dwainw did at http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...loveseat/page2

So here's a question...my DH rivals the Middle East in oil production (so he'll be the one with flawless skin when we're of the age to be gumming our mashed taters and racing wheelchairs :p )...should I anticipate oil staining with an unprotected leather? I'm not sure how I would replicate this on swatches.

Tammy

Swatches are representations of the hide you will get, and the error a lot of folks make is thinking they are dead-on accurate samples. Cows are just like people, they have all sorts of different skin colors! So while a finished (painted) hide won't vary much because we are spraying a color coat atop the cowskin, a dipped (Aniline) dye is going to color to that individual skin and will vary more from the sample. This is why I take all those photos of pieces that come through the store, so you can see what a particular hide looks like when its made up. Yes, they will vary - and the customer who is setting themselves up for a disappointment is the one that holds onto a swatch and when her new pieces arrive expects it to match 100 %, or even 95%.

The best you can do for an accurate sample is to request a CFA (Cutting For Approval). Then you're getting an actual piece of the leather they are going to use on your order. The downside to this approach is it adds 4 weeks to your production time and you have to place the order to get the sample. And if you don't like the sample, you're back to square 1 to start over in another leather.

Other variables come into play as well. Time of day, amount of natural sunlight, what kind of lighting you have in your home in the evening, and what kind of light you looked at the samples in the store. Also, its a mistake to hover over a sample with it at the end of your arm. Samples should be placed on a chair back and step back and view it from 8 feet away.

Now the good news is MOST the time, the finished piece surpasses expectations.

When you do the torture test on samples, you'll be surprised at how many will absorb a spill, but then the stain will dissappear in 48 hours.

So the swatches are primarily to provide the end user with a gauge of what the tanned hide (be it finished/protected, aniline or a hybrid of the two in a semi-aniline) is going to feel like (the hand) with some idea of the coloration, depending on if the steer (since all H&M's hides are steerhide and not cowhide) is a lighter skinned Nordic type or a darker skinned Latino (kidding about the race of the hide donor <wink>).

Don't place too much stock in the grain of the swatch, since it's likely cut from a part of the hide that would be considered too flawed for finished piece use, unless the description uses the term "smooth grained" (i.e. Caress)...in that case one can assume the hide, well, lacks much grain.

The swatches are good for spilling a portion of one's lifestyle on to see what the hide reaction will be to help with making an appropriate choice for one's own piece of furniture...and, more importantly, what my own reaction might be when DH spills his beer on the sofa.

Am I in the area of appropriate expectations?

<G>
Tammy

Pretty much - you got it!

With regard to shipping H&M hardware cloth to affix the the underside of the furniture, what sort of timing would we be looking at? Within two weeks after placing our order? One month? More?

The Journey sectional is listed as 42" deep...how wide a roll of hardware cloth should we ship?

Would you suggest shipping to H&M direct or to you, as the dealer, to be forwarded to H&M to cut out the direct communication between the manufacturer and end-user?

I guess we also need to provide enough hardware cloth to plan on the 072 Campaign ottoman, too (at 37").

So, exactly how much hardware cloth (between the 1724LAQ/1723RAQ and 072) do we need to plan on?

I was thinking of 1/2x1/2 cloth, DH thought 1/4x1/4 might be easier for H&M to affix...do they have a preference?

Tammy

Tammy, you crack me up! I thought DH and I were the only people on the planet who were so over the top about the fur persons in our home! :D Maybe I'll do the same thing with my order. Make the good folks at H&M wonder if there's something in the water, solar events, or at least what-the-heck-is-going-on!

Gail

Gail,

Yes, we love our fur-kids...until they start their own customization projects (as I sit here listening to Ellie, our Jr ferret, digging at the inside of the arm of our sleeper sofa...which she accessed thru a hole behind the back cushion of the sofa). That's my only other worry, their digging thru the furniture behind the cushions. Somehow I think applying hardware cloth there would negate the comfort of the ultradown cushions. We don't call them "monters" for nuthin <head shaking> I'm hopeful that with a leather cover, they won't be able to climb up on the furniture...unless the dog becomes their elevator (which is possible because she does pick them up).

Take my word for it, neither you nor I are over the top OCD with our 4-leggeds...I just consider ourselves choosing to be preemptive because we've been around the block a time or two (and, with regard to ferrets, little brains = little training likelihood):rolleyes:

Tammy

PS At least they don't play with Sharpie markers like some 2-leggeds do:p

PPS Just out of curiosity, are you two similar to us where it's not DH that thinks of these things but DW? OK, so maybe I am a bit obsessive <shrug>

A dog picking up ferrets without damaging them is quite an image!

Our house is pretty sedate now. At 19 and 16, the girl cats aren't all that active. Maxie (see my avatar) is huge. He'd love to shred the dust covers on furniture, but he's too big to get under anything other than a dining room chair.

Yep, I'm the OCD one. DH is legally blind. He never wanted his home to look like a blind person lived there (i.e., all of the furniture just lining the walls), but the visuals are pretty much a mystery to him. He's very sensitive to texture and cares greatly about how things feel and sound. He wouldn't notice a shredded dust cover unless there was something that he felt with a foot or leg.

An even better image is our previous dog (a Sheltie) used to pick them up by their tails (one at a time of course) and spin 'round and 'round then let them fly! True story. I used to be horrified:eek: but those darned ferts just kept coming back for more <ROFL> One must then surmise that there must have been some fun factor involved because, regardless of the size of one's brain, if it hurt they should run for cover!! There's a sound they make called "dook" (sounds like chuckling) and they would war-dance and dook like there was no tomorrow.

My DH may as well be called legally blind, not to diminish your DH's challenges, but I had to laugh when I would show him photos of the leathers from H&M's site and the only colors he could discern were blacks and beiges, regardless of what I was showing him. His choice of leather came down to a tactile response only.

Thank goodness for us gals and our detail orientation. To wit...I find the best place to hide a gift for my DH is right in plain site <sigh>

Oh my! I absolutely can imagine the ferret-spinning Sheltie. I'm probably going to have dreams about it!

It's entirely possible that your DH may not be able to differentiate among certain colors. There's a lot more variation in color perception than most people realize. Add in different lighting conditions and the effect of other colors that are nearby - well, it's a wonder that we have as much agreement as we do about what a particular color is!