Whew! Black Friday Sale is Over....

Thank you all for your purchases during the Black Friday Sale. Response was literally over-whelming and I've finally caught up this morning from all of that plus the normal things that make up daily business. All orders have been submitted with modifications as required, all emails and PMs have been answered and samples ordered, etc. If there is anything outstanding and you have not rec'd a reply on it, please resend it.

Now here's an interesting data point. For the first time I was able to get Bradington-Young to participate in the Black Friday Sale, giving the same discount as I did for Hancock and Moore. How many B-Y pieces did I sell? None. Not a one, either long distance or locally.

H&M orders exploded, and far exceeded my expectations (I won't tell numbers, because too many competitors read this forum!), but they were significant. Why is that? I'm curious as to the reasons in the buying decisions. Do those of you who chose H&M over B-Y want to share in your decision-making process?

Bradington-Young has a better price point by about 20 to 25 % on average. Hancock and Moore is the gold standard in the industry for their category and costs more, however its no-compromise furniture.

I have long preached to people in the industry against the bucking trend of making things for less money and cheaper in quality. That's the wave all these CEO's tend to want to go to. Currently the rage is to have it Made in the USA, but do it as cheaply as you can. I tell them that's wrong...that the average American consumer will pay for higher quality and good shopping tools (Point of Sale material, etc) but you have to show them what they are getting for their money. You have to educate and explain to them so they have the tools to make the decision on how they want to spend their money. That's what this forum is all about - educating and sharing knowledge, and why I'm not a hard-sale guy. I give out information and let the customer decide.

I think the failure for Bradington Young to generate even one sale over the Black Friday Weekend at my store bears that theory out. Jack Glasheen and Jimmy Moore at Hancock and Moore 'get it'. They want to produce the best in class and won't cut corners, the price has to fall where it may. And they are willing to spend money to give customers a great website with all the leathers on it, and the best and most handsome sales catalog in the trade.

I spent nearly two hours with the Senior VP of Sales (Craig Young) of B-Y a few weeks back and told him all of the above, plus a whole lot more. How they need to improve the website and post leather swatches on-line, and show more photos and change the way they do some production things even if it results in higher prices. He was very interested in what I had to say and clearly that's not what he hears at most furniture stores that pound on the companies for cheaper and cheaper pricing.

A lot of people in the trade read this (but never post), so share your thoughts on why you purchase one brand over another if you like. You never know whom you may influence at the head of a company!

Hi Duane,
I started our buying process with a lot of research. I found a number of websites which rated Bradington-Young and Hancock & Moore near the top, but I really wanted to go with the top company for quality....and wanted a US manufacturer. Once I found your site, and educated myself about the differences between the companies (thanks again for your awesome forum!) it was really no contest. I was willing to pay for the higher quality, US-made furniture. We don't purchase furniture often, and figured we should get the best since we'd be using it for a long time.

I also liked the fact that H&M's warranty is good (and they'll replace cores for original customers at no charge) and that they stand behind their products. Overall, I like a company that does the right thing, makes a good quality product, manufacturers their products in the US, and wants their customers to be happy with their purchases. H&M seems to go the extra mile, even giving tours of their factory to customers.

We went to a few local dealers to see the pieces for ourselves, and the quality and workmanship were evident. The H&M pieces really stood out from the rest (especially in the non-promotional leathers). And the sofa we chose, the Sundance, has a unique design that we did not find with any other manufacturer.

When you're making this large of an investment, the additional 20-25% to get the best product is worth it.

I agree with aluebcke completely!

The last time we bought family room furniture was 17 years ago. We were newly married and we'd just bought a home that needed a whole lot of furniture. Instead of doing everything at once, we purchased quaility. The sofa & loveseat we bought 17 years ago is still is great condition, just a bit tired of the fabric (a tapestry which held up unbelievably) and ready for something new.

So when we decided to redecorate & go with leather - H&M was the only way to go. This is not like buying a new shirt.... 'Buy something you'll LOVE not just like. If not, just stick with what you have.' That's sort of my motto now. As I've seen Duane mention often in the forum- it's not often you'll regret something nicer than you'd hoped for. Not that there's anything wrong with BY, but I wanted to be 'wowed' and it was worth the extra money to me.

I am so excited about our new purchase (Sundance as well)- can't wait to see the finished product. I know that I will LOVE these pieces for a long time to come.

It seems like more people find the site researching Hancock and Moore than any other brand for some reason. That predisposition probably creates a lot more discussion on the site for that brand, contributing to the high percentage of H&M orders, which results in a lot fewer pics of other lines on the site, which creates a feedback loop. I'd love to see more B-Y and Taylor King photos and buyer experiences on the forum.

The handling of the leathers on the B-Y site is unfortunate. A list of numbers doesn't really do much. You can decipher aniline verses protected, but not much else. At least with the H&M leather page you can narrow down your choices to ask for samples based on description and color. That applies to local shopping too, not just online. I'd like to be able to go in with some idea of what to look for on the handles.

Another factor I ran into was the dealer locator doesn't specify what line the dealer carries. I went to a local dealer to shop B-Y but it turned out that dealer specialized in modern furniture, so only carried the Envision line on the floor. I thought about driving to the next nearest dealer, but it was over an hour away and without knowing if I would find the main line, I never got around to it. Had the site said the dealer didn't just stock Envision (or Seven Seas) I might have just jumped in the car and gone.

I certainly have no negative impression of B-Y though. In fact I'm still quite taken with the 713-95. If I had the money and could have gotten samples in time I would have considered grabbing one from that married cover sale a while back. It's still definitely in the running when sofa replacement time and money comes along. Might even give the new dealer in town a shot (they carry H&M as well as B-Y), although my good experience with long-distance ordering may count against them, since they have no reputation in town. We shall see. Maybe next summer, after the bed and garage door.

Here are some reasons I think you sold no B-Y pieces:

1. In researching through this forum it is clear H&M is superior to B-Y. Their use of plywood in their frames, their lack of true eight way hand tied coil springs, and the fact several lines are Chinese made have made B-Y less attractive.

2. Your audience is not the "typical" furniture shopper. In the city I live there are two large furniture stores side by side. One is called Furniture Row, the other ***** Fine Furniture. I drive by them both every day. On any given day there will be 20+ cars parked outside Furniture Row, and maybe 2 outside ***** Fine Furniture, even though they sell H&M, Stickley, Drexel, Henredon, and Thomasville. I suspect you, like ***** Fine Furniture, see but a small percentage of the buying public, which includes those for whom money is no object but still want a deal, but also those who have researched and are willing to financially stretch to buy the best when the time is right, like Black Friday.

3. I have priced out some B-Y and H&M pieces both locally and over the internet. Generally, I can buy the same B-Y piece locally for roughly the same as online. However, that is not the case with H&M. Your price and another online store price beats local prices by 30-40%.

4. Lastly, I would like to see you carry more Made in USA brands such as Smith Brothers of Berne, and Stickley Craftsman Leather. I would be interested to see how H&M would stack up against them.

I totally agree with all the posters of why they purchased H&M because it represents true quality & made in the great U.S.A. B&Y never was a choice for me because I had done my furniture research in 2007 on quality. I do own the H&M Austin reclining sofa, chair, & ottoman, which I purchased 3 years ago so I do know how well H&M’s furniture is built. Although in 2007 when I ordered the H&M pieces from another online furniture dealer, I had some big time delivery issues and wait time that should NEVER have happened. After this experience, I vowed I would never buy furniture from the internet again. But I definitely did and I can’t wait to receive my furniture purchases of Black Friday's sale.

I became acquainted with you from the garden web forum & you provided me with some information that was very helpful. Had I known of you and your furniture store before I placed my H&M order in 2007, I would definitely have purchased from you. The answer is yes, H&M does have superb quality, great leather, and many selections, however, another main reason I purchased H&M this time was because of you, Duane. You know your furniture and you go out of your way to provide any info you can to the consumers who ask you questions. Your customer service is beyond belief. I have never worked with anyone that is as helpful as you in the customer service dept. So, customer service means almost as much to me as quality. I have so much faith in you, your honesty, and customer service that I never even priced the H&M furniture pieces that I ordered from you on Black Friday’s sale at any other furniture dealer, nor have I even sat on the H&M pieces I ordered.

When you started your furniture forum after leaving the garden web, I bookmarked your site and periodically read the posts. It took some time for people to become aware of your forum, however, as the old movie saying goes, “Build it and they will come.” Boy Howdy, did they ever? Since my last visit to the forum, I could not believe how much your forum had grown when I came here three weeks ago to read posts and see the pictures of H&M furniture. People are seeking furniture knowledge and you provide it. Among your many virtues, I believe your extreme patience deserves mentioning. We, as consumers, have many questions concerning such large investments of furniture. You answer those questions and give your honest opinion and that is all anyone can want. Thank you so much for your help, knowledge, customer service, and your great Black Friday sale.

edgewood96, that story is pretty close to how I ended up here. I was looking for information on quality furniture, found a guy who had been sharing a lot of very useful information but was no longer on gardenweb, tracked him down to his forum, and ended up buying quite a bit of furniture.

I also echo this: "I never even priced the H&M furniture pieces that I ordered from you... at any other furniture dealer". I take it for granted that there's always somebody who will look at another merchant's price and offer to shave off a few bucks to land a sale, but there's no way that any such merchant is going to provide the type of service and support Duane offers, either before or after the sale, even at a distance. Most local furniture stores aren't that good.

We looked at Bradington-Young at a furniture store here in Charlotte. I wasn't impressed with the product or the store. They were more interested in moving what was on their floor than in helping us.

We found this web-site from an internet search for leather furniture. I read every post related to "leather furniture." I was pretty sure I was going to purchase Hancock and Moore after that. Then we visited Duane's store in VA. We had planned to move slowly and just check out the pieces on the floor for comfort, quality, etc. We ended up placing our order before we left. Duane was so helpful but at the same time did not hover all over us and was not in the least bit "pushy." When we rec'd the sample of the leather they would use on our actual sofa, the color was too dark for us. Duane suggested we take a factory tour and pick up more samples there if we wanted to. We went on to the Hancock and Moore factory for the tour and it was quite reassuring-American workers turning out a first-class product. Mr. Jimmy Moore is the consummate professional who runs the Hancock and Moore factory "hands-on." He leads the tours himself. We are totally pleased with our furniture and know that Hancock and Moore will stand behind it. The fact that they replace the cores for the original owner was a huge consideration as well. Now, I would never consider buying any upholstered/leather furniture except for Hancock and Moore.

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Originally Posted by aaron

edgewood96, that story is pretty close to how I ended up here. I was looking for information on quality furniture, found a guy who had been sharing a lot of very useful information but was no longer on gardenweb, tracked him down to his forum, and ended up buying quite a bit of furniture.

I also echo this: "I never even priced the H&M furniture pieces that I ordered from you... at any other furniture dealer". I take it for granted that there's always somebody who will look at another merchant's price and offer to shave off a few bucks to land a sale, but there's no way that any such merchant is going to provide the type of service and support Duane offers, either before or after the sale, even at a distance. Most local furniture stores aren't that good.

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Permit me to tell a little story here if I may (and I appreciate all the feedback!).

There are folks that spend HOURS upon HOURS on the internet looking to get the last dime out of a deal, and if you are willing to put the time in to do that, you'll eventually find that dealer. I'll tell you right up front - I'm not that guy. My prices are highly competitive, but I don't work for peanuts, either. I frequently get asked to match that last-dime dealer in price, and most the time I will decline to do so and wish that customer 'luck' with their purchase with the lowball dealer they found. If everything works out smoothly, then they have a success story and saved a few bucks, good for them.

But if it doesn't.....

In 2010 a forum member asked me to match a low price on a Bradington-Young sectional. The margins were destroyed on the deal (less than 10 % hey, its business!) but I did so because he was genuinely polite and nice about it so I agreed. When they received the sectional, it had a noisy spring in the seat deck on one end. The customer looked under the dust cloth, and the spring was askew rather than being vertical as it should be. I contacted B-Y and their policy is to correct it, not replace it (as are most furniture makers). I then arranged transport back to the factory one half of the sectional so the spring could be corrected. It was a 6 to 8 week turnaround time when all was said and done and with shipping times both ways. The customer was not happy about having half a sectional in their home for that time period and I can understand that, but that's the procedure.

However, when the sectional got back, they had done NOTHING to it. The spring was still askew and noisy. It was simply parked at the B-Y factory and then returned. This is known as a 'wall job' (parked against the wall then shipped back out). Well now my customer - and especially his wife - was livid. She was difficult to calm down and making several demands including a refund of all money, etc. Once again, we go back to the written warranty which says B-Y will correct the fault, and Bradington Young once again said "return it to us and we will repair it". The customer's wife was having none of that, and demanded a replacement or full refund. Now, what do you think most bottom-dollar price places do at this juncture? I'll tell you what they do - they read the customer the party line on the warranty and say "Sorry ma'am that's it - that's all we can do" or else they ignore the phone calls.

What I did, in spite of this being a almost no-profit deal, was go back to the factory on behalf of the customer and demand a full new replacement. This was not easily done. It required all the pressure I could bring to bear on it, and for the customer to call B-Y and give them some of the anger she was giving to me. My way of thinking was they had an opportunity to correct the fault and failed, and they why should this customer have to endure another 6 to 8 weeks with half a sectional in their home? B-Y finally agreed to make a new half and swap them out. I said "Not good enough, you can't make half a sectional and expect the leather to match, you will have to re-make the whole piece." I went to the carpet for this customer and told them they WERE going to do this if they wanted to keep me as a dealer. Finally it was agreed upon that they would remake the entire piece and swap them, though it had to be taken all the way to the top for that approval.

Done, yes? Well....no. In all the time it took for this to occur, the original leather was discontinued. So we had to re-select the leather in a similar grade. This presented a new problem, as the customer had a matching cocktail ottoman that would no longer match, so I had to back to them again and battle for the ottoman to be replaced as well. Argh! But in the end, everything was replaced, though it was nearly 9 months from start to finish of this ordeal. I spent hours on the phone, countless letters and faxes to make this happen for the customer and in the end they were satisfied. However, I resolved that I was no longer going to match the low-ballers because I do offer a much higher level of after-the-sale-service and that's worth something.

In this business, you can have two of these three things when you shop.

* Highest Quality
* Best Service
* Lowest Price

Pick two, because there is no such thing as getting all three! Choose wisely :)