Quality or Price? You can't have it both ways

It's always difficult as a merchant to buy product for display based on what customers are looking for as they walk into the store. When you have been in the business as long as I have (35 years) you develop an eye for quality and its almost like muscle memory, you can spot it instantly. It's not a problem finding well-made furniture, the issue becomes the price. To that end, not everyone wants to spend the money to buy a good piece and is shopping for a piece to fit a space in a given price range. And therein lies the challenge as the buyer - at what point is a piece no longer acceptable? Do we only want to carry better made product being a small store? A lot of younger customers are coming in and they tend to be more price sensitive than older, established clients. It becomes a balancing act.

Case in point, this Hooker Furniture Saban Console that just arrived today. $ 859 in the store. If this piece were made by Jonathan Charles or Century, it would be three times the price. Because this is an educational forum, I am going to show you the issues with less costly furniture and what you are not getting. To some it matters, others not so much, but to LEARN what you are getting or not getting and how to tell the difference makes you an educated consumer. Sarah (my daughter) doesn't like it when I pick apart a piece we have in the store and I get that - it goes against trying to sell a piece. On the other hand, YOU need to know why this piece is 1/3 the price of a well made one, so here we go.

Let's start with the overall photo of the piece. Great design lines, good proportion, nice size. This piece is made in India for Hooker Furniture, weighs 64 pounds and is pretty solid. As you look at this overall photo, what jumps out at you? It's the finish - see how it lacks depth and interest? It's muddy, flat, and the drawers don't match the case, which is a fault and shows failure to match grain when produced. I don't like muddy finishes, and the reason they are is because they were done quickly, with minimal finish layers.

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Photo 2 again shows the mismatch on the color of the drawers vs the case, plus gaps in the drawer fitment big enough to drive a pencil through. This piece was meant to be made fast and inexpensively

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Photo 3 shows the gaps in the metal banding around the wood top, and this is all the way around the top. This isn't just sloppy workmanship, its no workmanship. You would never see this in a better made piece, not to where you can see daylight through them.

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Photo 4 is the drawer construction. This is a simple butt-joint, nail / glue build. Not what you want for longevity. The best joinery is a dovetailed drawer and this isn't it. Thin interior edges can tend to chip off at the drawer ends if subjected to an impact, be careful with these drawers if out of the piece.

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It's adequate for the price and is not going to fall apart, but it will never be collectible or one to admire. It would be great for a young couple starting out in their first home and needing an entry table with storage for not much money, and it has a nice overall look. Would I use this for my own home? No, I would not because I would always see the shortcuts taken and it would annoy me. So what are your thoughts on this piece and those similar to it? Do you like to see The Keeping Room carrying mediocre pieces such as Hooker, or prefer we only carry high quality with higher price points? We always like feedback.....

The lazy me wants a place that I trust that only sells the good stuff. A place I know I can just order whatever I want from and not have to do all the work to determine if it is good quality and if it is worth the price because it has already been done for me, lol. That becomes even more important if I am ordering from a distance and can't look over the pieces myself. Those places are increasingly rare. I appreciate that one exists. I think Hooker for example makes some decent pieces for mass produced furniture. But I would refuse delivery or return the piece here. I have a Hooker TV cabinet. There are no gaps like I see here and I simply could not live with that. I am less concered about the drawers if it isprimarily meant to be a place to display items rather than a storage piece or work piece like a desk. I don't need a 2,000.00+ piece for a spare bedroom or basement. But even for mass produced furniture this is poor. One thing that makes me laugh is that the woods are so mismatched I might have thought they did it on puprpose, a "design element", lol. I will be honest, if I got this from you I would be a little shocked and disappointed unless I knew it shipped directly to me and you had not seen it. But I would expect help getting it returned. Do you want those headaches? There is certainly a place for mass produced furniture, but do you want it to be your place? I will be honest I was not looking for lifetime furniture when I was in my 20s and 30s. But there are so many places that already fill that space and so few that fill yours. I am very curious. Are you going to keep and sell that piece or return it? Is that really considered within acceptable limits for Hooker right now? Maybe consider having a separate section or room or name for budget, mass produced items. If you don't somehow distinguish clearly between them will you loose your reputation for quality?

Curious minds want to know. What does Sarah say about this piece? :)

That particular piece will stay in the store as it's not actually defective, its the build standard that Hooker works to, they are not finely-made pieces and made to a price point. If that were a Jonathan Charles / Century / Woodbridge piece that came in like that, there would be issues with it as those are three times the price and that would be unacceptable. We know buying Hooker that its an OK piece for the money, and the thought is to get younger clientele in the store to start a relationship with, and as they have more disposable income over time they will upgrade to your better product.

However, I think you are correct in that we should stay with a certain standard in the store and that is of better-made pieces, and let this market segment go. We do not have the floor space to compartmentalize into high and mid-range product. With the cost of transport these days (we paid $ 102.90 to land that small Hooker Console) that adds a lot to an inexpensive piece, but not so much to more expensive ones as a percentage of the costs.

Sarah is still learning what makes a quality piece and it takes time she is only 9 months into the business. I show her good and bad points on every piece that comes in and it took me years to get that knowledge. That's also why I encourage her to go to the factories to see where items are made when possible. Having just bought her first home just a little over a year she is the Hooker customer and has about (6) of their pieces on order for herself. It's a step up when she was buying Ikea and furniture-to-assemble from Amazon.

At first glance, I said "that's a pretty little console", but when I started looking it over, I said "yikes, these drawers feel like the ones on my Amazon pieces I built myself!" I agree with you that if the drawers are not important and you are just using the piece to display items instead of for storage, it's fine, but I think that the metal frame not lining up with the wood may bother me.

I have a Hooker bed frame, dresser, and two nightstands on order for our guest room and am pretty curious to see how they turn out. I'm hoping that the dresser especially has better quality drawers, because even though it's for a guest room, I still want to be able to functionally store linens and sweaters in it. Our current master bedroom bedframe is from Hooker Furniture and is six years old and has held up just fine, despite having to be disassembled for a move.

We do have some other Hooker pieces in the store that are made to higher quality standards, specifically the Serramonte Entertainment Accent Console and Skyline Desk, and the MARQ line we just brought on through Hooker has excellent craftsmanship, so it seems like some pieces may really just be hit or miss. We probably won't order more pieces for floor stock unless we see them in person at market.

I think Hooker is kind of a transition brand into better quality furniture. At least it was for me. That is why I asked what Sarah thought. I bought Hooker when I was looking for something better than the deptartment store stuff but couldn't quite swing the higher quality stuff yet. So I can see how some pieces could fit into your store, especially the better Hooker lines. It makes sense to have a few pieces of decent quality furniture that aren't so scarily priced. The table is pretty but 900.00 isn't Ikea priced either, and I would want a little more finish for my money. The challenge is keeping the not so good stuff out. JMHO.

We just brought this Woodbridge Randolph Chest in today priced at $ 2,795 and made in Vietnam. Look at the differences in quality from this and the Hooker piece. It's cherry veneers over hardwood, with solid brass handles. The finish is brilliant and has depth, the board matches are top shelf, tolerances as good as any woodworker can make them. Details and design lines excellent. This is a high quality piece, showing not all imports are poorly made. If this was made in the USA, the price would be double. While I realize for some they have an objection to imports from Vietnam due to the US conflict there 50 years ago and respect that, the truth of the matter is some of the best-crafted furniture comes from that country, and the Philippines as well. Don't take an automatic pass on imports, instead learn the art of furniture making and examine the details yourself. This piece also has fully dovetailed drawers - I would definitely put this in my own home and the price point is excellent. I have been impressed with every Woodbridge piece we have brought into the store so far. They are sold out of most items, but we get them as we can.

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Beautiful. I had no idea such nice pieces would come from either place. But why veneers and not solid cherry? Price? I know some curved pieces, for example might need to use veneers but why here?

Solid cherry would easily add $ 1K to the price, possibly more.

I agree with Duane and with SueCT here; there are many places selling cheap or promotional-priced furniture so I don't think it wise to try and compete with them if you're operating a smaller niche store. Let the big stores do that and instead, keep the focus on a higher-end products for a more seasoned/sophisticated customer. Also, continue to offer knowledge, excellent service and be a place furniture buyers can rely on to sell only good quality lines.

Having said that, I think just having more production furniture at all is a change for Duane that perhaps Sarah is ushering in and I see that as a good thing. Forgive me for assuming here with little actual knowledge but I'm guessing that to be the case. I'm guessing that because for years I've learned a lot from Duane about upholstered goods but when it came to case goods, there was always a preference for commissioned pieces by master craftsmen over anything built on a furniture assembly line. Thus, I was never able to relate much to his case goods knowledge. While I always wanted good quality furniture, I never felt I could commission a piece from John Buchanan or another of his cabinet makers. Reading this post and seeing comparisons of production case goods is a nice addition to the wealth of information already available on upholstery. I'd like to see more of that here so I think I'm also siding with Sarah to offer and compare more attainable wood products.

I think in some ways the case goods are even harder for consumers because they seem to come from all over the world. Even with the better lines of furniture, it can still be imported and that will vary from piece to piece within a brand so its hard for consumers to know where their furniture is sourced. Is it American or is it imported from a place with skilled craftsman? There's almost no information out there so it's truly hard to know in advance what one is buying. There are also an infinite number of pieces available and, especially with higher-end lines, a consumer typically can't see the furniture before they buy. I can march into IKEA and see what I'll get when I open up that flat box with all the amusing little diagrams. But consumers have little idea what higher-priced furniture will actually look like. Some of the best brands have terrible websites with low-resolution pictures and the actual furniture is usually not in a showroom anywhere so, even being knowledgeable isn't enough. Case goods, I think, are especially difficult for consumers.

I always try to buy only American made furniture and my default position was that imported furniture was bad and American furniture is better. From what I've learned though, it's not quite that simple A lot of Made in USA furniture isn't heirloom quality and because of high labor costs here, many US-made pieces tend to be quite simple in design. More intricate carving, veneer work, églomisé work, or duck shells like the piece currently shown as for sale at TKR in another thread, are all very labor intensive and are unlikely to be made here. Pieces with those characteristics are undoubtably fine furniture but they'll be imported. I don't think India is a place for quality furniture but as Duane alludes to, there are good craftsmen in Vietnam, for instance, with Jonathan Sowter producing good pieces under his Jonathan Charles line. Rock House Farm, parent company of Hancock and Moore and Century, also has an excellent brand of interesting and well-made furniture and accessories produced in Cebu, Philippines. I won't mention the name because its not one Duane carries. At one time, I wouldn't have considered either because they are imported. Although I still endeavor to buy American goods whenever possible, there are some brands and some other places on the globe (not China though) that create stunning furniture. However, knowing that has only come from many hours of reading and most consumers won't do that which gets me back to the point. I think The Keeping Room should be a place known for selling top-quality heirloom furniture that consumers can count on to do the research for them. Focusing on Hancock and Moore and then perhaps a few quality boutique case good lines like JC is a good business model in my opinion. Hooker is more mass market so I wouldn't offer much of their product. I get that there's always a need to attract new, younger clientele but if doing so means compromising your standards, that can actually work against a business.

If I'd bought that Hooker piece thinking The Keeping Room only sells good furniture, I might feel duped and then assume it is typical of the store's quality and vow to never return. I think it's better to have the younger customers aspire to own pieces from your store and to be the place they'll come to later than to sell them something now that will disappoint them.

One more thought on the Hooker piece, it's very trendy looking. I always find it interesting when someone comes to this site and asks for a higher quality version of some current look, like Restoration Hardware's bleached-out driftwood tables. I think to myself, what is the point? If it's going to be out-of-style in a few years, why invest in a high quality version of it. Just buy cheap and throw it away when the fad passes. If one is buying quality that is made to last 100 years or more, buy a classic design that someone will actually still want to look at in 2122. Of course I didn't know any of that at 25 and therein lies the dilemma for The Keeping Room.

That's a good post Ci2Eye. You are spot on.

That's why I continue to use this forum not as a sales tool to generate business, but as an educational resource. I know that causes my daughter Sarah some concern ("Dad, you can't say negative things about our products") and few merchants would, but my thoughts were this forum was started on the premise that Job 1 was to help consumers navigate the path to what makes a good piece of furniture first and foremost, and if customers come to us because they trust us then so much the better. And funny thing too is when I point out flaws in an item or vendor, it does seem to mitigate back to management in the company. Then I get a phone call asking to take it down - and I never do. My reply is always "If you don't like an honest review, fix your product, until then it stands as is".

Back in the 1980's and 90's I drove our Freightliner truck to all the woodworking shops and did our own pickups, the benchmade cabinentmakers didn't box and ship. That had the unintended consequences of teaching me wood-working, as my natural curiosity would have me walking with the craftspeople in the shops after we loaded up. How do you do this? Why do you do that? And they would show me. I made hundreds of trips in diesel trucks to make pickups at one time I was going every other week to New England or Ohio/PA.

But the market changed around 2000. Interest in finely-made furniture waned and around that time it was more important to have the latest and greatest cell phone than a properly made Chest of Drawers. I remember going to the High Point Furniture Market maybe 2005 or 2006 and I could find nothing there that met my standards and style for the store. I quipped to one vendor who asked what my target market was and I replied "I have the look and furniture in my store that nobody wants anymore" and that got a lot of laughs, but it was true. So the little woodworking shops that did that all closed up, or went into making kitchen cabinets, they're all gone now. One still remains in Rhode Island, but I know no one will pay their prices so I don't even promote it because I know the pushback that the current customer will have on finely-made furniture.

And this is no secret, which is why the industry has moved to imports. People say they want quality, and they do, but not above a certain price point. Case in point, this Saturday a couple was looking at an Urban Barnwood Solid Oak table in the store @ $ 3,200, and they didn't like the price point. It's solid 2" Oak, made from reclaimed barn timbers and made in Ohio, one table weighs close to 280lb. They said "There's one at West Elm that looks sort of like this for $ 2,100". Yes there is, it's an import that have a veneered top and rubberwood as the base and underlayment. But $ 2,100 was all they wanted to spend. You pays your money, you takes your choice, but they will be asking how to fix chips in the table top in the not too distant future.

Back to this one Hooker piece that started this thread - I would have never bought this piece if it looked like this in the High Point Showroom, which is where I saw it as a new item. A lot of foreign makers can have a tendency to make the first batch of furniture, or prototypes very nicely done. They show the piece, get orders from dealers, then the first production batch comes in 7 months later and is not built to the standards of the model shown at Market. That is what I suspect happened here. Add to that communication barriers where it's difficult for the vendor to pickup the phone and discuss with his foreign manufactuers (plus the time differences) and these issues are very hard to correct.

That's also why we start small with new suppliers. Get a few pieces in, see what they look like, order a few more...examine them, that sort of thing before we jump in fully. I'm always happy to educate on what makes a good piece of furniture, especially in-store where I can show you in person. An educated buyer is a smart shopper.

Just unpacked today, two Hooker Furniture Corporation Palisade Nightstands to go with our Hancock and Moore Your Way Tufted Bed, and these were a 180 from the Hooker Saban Console that we were disappointed with. These nightstands featured all of the details that the console fell flat on - depth in the finish, dovetailing on the drawers, unique and thoughtful design, and even real cedar planks in the drawers.

One of the coolest things about these nightstands? There's an electrical panel on the back of the pice with three outlets and a USB charger so you can hide those pesky cords from your lamps, alarm clocks, and cell phone chargers.

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These are MUCH nicer build quality as they are coming out of the Vietnam workshops, not India like the prior piece. Good value in these, selling for $ 899 in the store, they are solid, well-made, have a decent finish on them and while not at the Woodbridge or Jonathan Charles level, they are half the price of those makers. They are surprisingly heavy......

This is the problem you have when companies such as Hooker, or Restoration Hardware, Pottery Barn, West Elm, etc. source from different factories to sell under their own name. The quality can have big swings in the line, and that's very difficult to control. I have seen some real junk in RH stores in upholstery - especially their button-tufted sofas - then go look a few feet away and see a very nice chair that is made for them by White-more Sherrill, designed by my friend Alan Price. Inconsistency in the offering quality.

For example, one of the things great about McDonald's is the food tastes the same in California as it does in New York, or Florida. That means the customer knows his Big Mac he buys at home will taste the same as when he's on the other side of the country. McDonald's has that down pat. Hooker, not so much.

I'll admit I was surprised when you started carrying Hooker. My experiences with the brand have not been good and I do not think it is good enough for your store. You can get Hooker at a dozen different places in every city. I understand the dilemma of 'stay up market and stay small or go downmarket to expand'. It is what every 'luxury' brand deals with and why like 25 years ago Godiva was good chocolate and now they sell it for $2 at Target. Going downmarket will expand your sales in the short term but it kills the brand in the long term. I just hope you stay in the up market space where we consumers can count on every item in your store is good quality and worth buying.

There were two Century nightstands I really liked for either side of the Hancock and Moore bed, they were my first choice, however they were $ 2,600 apiece. I’m not sure my in-store customers would pay that, so it’s always a judgement call. Turning inventory is key in a retail brick and mortar store. If things sit too long then they become shopworn or get discontinued, then markdowns have to occur which destroys margins. Always have to be mindful of that on floor models.

I have a very high quality Councill Dining Table in the store at $ 6,000 and a set of six Jessica Charles Dining chairs around it covered in Hancock and Moore leather at $ 1k apiece. A $12,000 set that has been on the floor eight years. That’s the killer….takes up space, inventory dollars and isn’t turning. One has to be careful to not become a showcase museum and keep price ranges in the affordable level.

I do not envy your position Duane...very much like threading a needle but perhaps even more like trying to thread a needle head that is being moved in a room where the lights go off and on. I haven't been to the store yet, but from reading an embarrassingly large percentage of this blog...you biggest differentiating factor from the other dealers is your knowledge and ability to know quality when you see it AND COMMUNICATE IT. At the end of the day...the goal for a customer has to be obtaining a quality piece of furniture...whether that be from a company with the reputation of hooker or of H&M. Having items in your store that you can show to customers and point out the quality should win out over the brand association. The issue of inconsistency of a product line is the real challenge to overcome...not sure how you tackle that...can you contractually require that furniture you purchase is only made in a certain country?

Perhaps I am naive about it...but I don't think people are labelling the brands of their furniture to show off...they want the craftsmanship to speak for itself...so even for a company previously unheard of, if you see quality that you respect...then that is what should go in the store.

Cheers!

Yes, if you get educated on what makes a good piece, you don't need to see brand labels, your eyes and sense of touch will tell you. I am very wary of shopping new lines and product when I go to the High Point Furniture Market, and I really don't need anyone telling me much about their product, because usually the more they talk, the more I see they don't know what they are talking about! However, in our industry, my approach is the exception, not the rule. This is still a price-driven industry. Can you sell it for "X" dollars and can the manufacture make it for "Y" dollars? And it those line up, then does it look presentable and stylish? If so, your average retailer will buy it. I have a bad habit of getting into the specifics of pieces and tell the pitchman that this piece they made lacks this or that, or isn't made correctly and then watch their eyes glaze over and I realize I'm wasting my time and breath...lol.

The ONLY way you can learn about quality builds in going into the workshops and talking to the people that make it. There is no other way. The workers are completely honest (which the sales team may not be!) and thrilled that someone cares about what they are doing. I ask questions like "Why do you do it this way?" or "How would you improve the build quality on this piece if you could?" Last time I was in the Hancock and Moore factory I struck up a conversation with one of the spring up guys, who does the 8-way hand-tied suspensions in the frames. He had no gloves on - I've never seen that before and asked him why? Everyone else has bloody hands from pulling the stings....so they wear gloves. He laughed and said "After 25 years doing this, I have callouses that nothing can penetrate" and reached out his hand to show me. I tried my hand on pulling a few strings - it's harder than it looks. Finally he said proudly "I make the best suspension in this whole town, you ever have one fail that I did you bring it back here to me and I'll fix it free of charge". I asked "How many failures have you had over the years?" and with a wink he said "Not the first one".

This is why I encourage Sarah, my daughter, to go into the factories and take the time to do it. You don't really know, until you know. Not with imports, the are all in a box in a giant warehouse, so short of going to Pacific Rim countries, I have to look them over at Market to see how they are made. Not much beats benchmade American Furniture so I don't expect them to measure up to that, but if they can get there 80%, that's pretty good. Few customers will pay the price for handmade USA furniture, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by drcollie

Yes, if you get educated on what makes a good piece, you don't need to see brand labels, your eyes and sense of touch will tell you. I am very wary of shopping new lines and product when I go to the High Point Furniture Market, and I really don't need anyone telling me much about their product, because usually the more they talk, the more I see they don't know what they are talking about! However, in our industry, my approach is the exception, not the rule. This is still a price-driven industry. Can you sell it for "X" dollars and can the manufacture make it for "Y" dollars? And it those line up, then does it look presentable and stylish? If so, your average retailer will buy it. I have a bad habit of getting into the specifics of pieces and tell the pitchman that this piece they made lacks this or that, or isn't made correctly and then watch their eyes glaze over and I realize I'm wasting my time and breath...lol.

The ONLY way you can learn about quality builds in going into the workshops and talking to the people that make it. There is no other way. The workers are completely honest (which the sales team may not be!) and thrilled that someone cares about what they are doing. I ask questions like "Why do you do it this way?" or "How would you improve the build quality on this piece if you could?" Last time I was in the Hancock and Moore factory I struck up a conversation with one of the spring up guys, who does the 8-way hand-tied suspensions in the frames. He had no gloves on - I've never seen that before and asked him why? Everyone else has bloody hands from pulling the stings....so they wear gloves. He laughed and said "After 25 years doing this, I have callouses that nothing can penetrate" and reached out his hand to show me. I tried my hand on pulling a few strings - it's harder than it looks. Finally he said proudly "I make the best suspension in this whole town, you ever have one fail that I did you bring it back here to me and I'll fix it free of charge". I asked "How many failures have you had over the years?" and with a wink he said "Not the first one".

This is why I encourage Sarah, my daughter, to go into the factories and take the time to do it. You don't really know, until you know. Not with imports, the are all in a box in a giant warehouse, so short of going to Pacific Rim countries, I have to look them over at Market to see how they are made. Not much beats benchmade American Furniture so I don't expect them to measure up to that, but if they can get there 80%, that's pretty good. Few customers will pay the price for handmade USA furniture, unfortunately.

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Hey Duane,

I thoroughly enjoyed my factory tour at Hancock and Moore that you arranged for me in 2015. I would recommend it to anyone and what made it even more special, in hindsight, was spending an afternoon with Jimmy Moore, who has since retired. I'm sure the tours are still every bit as educational but having Jimmy as a guide was an exceptional experience. In how many industries could a consumer who showed up to pick up one office chair also get a guided tour from the founder and owner of the company? There are likely few other people in his situation that would do that and I understand my experience wasn't unusual; he did the tours for everyone who asked to come in and look around.

You mention that it's not really possible to tour the Pacific Rim facilities but as it relates to Jonathan Charles, there is a guided tour on YouTube that the company's founder, Jonathan Sowter, gave to Tom Russell with Furniture Today. It lasts about an hour and he takes viewers all though their expansive facility. Although you aren't really there on the ground in Vietnam, it is very interesting in the same way Jimmy Moore's tour was. I felt I learned a lot watching it. He covers the foundry, photography, and even the box-making machine. Among the things that's interesting is that Mr. Sowter trained under Paul Maitland Smith to do reproductions of classic English antiques so he's well versed in inlays, veneering, carving, egg shells, hand-painting, etc. but he says the challenge of running a fine furniture operation today is to incorporate those traditional craftsman skills into looks that today's consumers will find appealing. Although perhaps they should, he alludes to the fact that the look of English antiques isn't one that so many of today's buyers appreciate.

I can understand that because it isn't a look I appreciated at 25 either but now being double that age, I have come to prize classical designs that endure. It's interesting when watching an old TV show or movie that in some room scenes the furniture and decor are timeless while in others the look can be laughably dated. In some scenes there are classic leather wingback chairs, a chesterfield sofa, Chippendale table and Federal-style secretary desk. Those rooms could essentially be featured in this month's issue of Traditional Home even though it was filmed in 1972. The textiles might be different today but the furniture isn't. In other rooms though that were more current and "stylish" for the 1972 era, there is nothing to be kept. Unless one would want to live in a time warp, nothing would be salvageable for today. Therefore, to me, if a furniture buyer is interested in purchasing good, well-made items that will endure, I'd recommend you preface those purchases by retuning your taste towards the classics. What good is a piece of furniture made to last 100 + years and that you may be living with for 50 if it will be dated looking after only a few years.

I sure do miss Jimmy Moore. He was an experience in and of itself - I don't think I've ever met anyone who has as much fun "working" as Jimmy did when giving a tour, especially to a first-timer, it was almost like stand-up comedy and you would leave there both laughing to yourself and scratching your head at the banter he used to engage in with his associates. Rick Fox, did the tours after that, he was the Plant Foreman, but he retired this past December so I'm not sure who is doing them at the moment. Jimmy loved that place, he didn't want to retire but felt he had to when Jack (his co-partner) left. One of my favorite Jimmy Moore stories was that when one of his employees wanted a new car, he would go down and do the negotiating for them on the price, because he knew everyone in Hickory the way John Dutton knows everyone in Montana (Yellowstone series). Jimmy would always get them a better deal on a new ride.

I too, love the classics - however they don't sell well. At one time in the 80's and 90's that's all we had in the store. It can be tempting to carry what you like, and only high-quality. But that makes you a museum shop, and if no one is buying then you fail in your business. Many store did just that, and they are gone in the early 2000's. At the end of the day its a business and if your product is not moving and generating a cash flow, then you aren't listening to what your customers want. We have to mix up the styles a bit to get to that younger customer who doesn't want classics.

Every day I hear "too expensive" and then my job is to tell them why it's worth it. I will always have a less expensive option, if for the sole purpose of using it as a prop to show the differences. Once people see those differences, they can decide what works best for them and their budget.

This is a nice thread with a lot of good info about the differences in furniture quality. I was recently in the market for new bedroom furniture and knew I wanted solid wood. It was difficult to find good-quality bedroom furniture displayed in my area stores that had withstood the “abuse” of customer traffic and from being moved from display to display. This led me to the realization that I wanted solid wood pieces without veneers. I looked closely at Stickley and some Amish-made furniture lines, but the variety and options did not fit what I wanted. Much if it was huge, and the store models of the Stickley, in particular, had scratches and dented corners that showed a distressing thin coat of stain. In addition, most bedroom furniture these days includes upholstered headboards, and that is not my style. Other wood options were literally ginormous, and not at all to my taste. Out of desperation (and before I found this site) I reached out to a high-end, independent furniture store in a town about 150 miles away.

The salesperson and I ended up working entirely through email and phone calls, and she introduced me to Durham Furniture, which is an employee-owned, solid-wood furniture company in Canada. I was impressed by the selection and styles available, and with its use of solid maple and cherry. I learned a lot by watching a few of their longer YouTube videos that showcase the build quality and the company’s style.

I guess the point of this post is to point out that in addition to American companies that make high-quality furniture, there is at least one Canadian company that makes what I perceive as really good, solid-wood bedroom furniture and case goods.

There are several high-quality companies out there making good, durable furniture, the problem is people are so inundated with prices on cheap imports, when they see the cost of a properly made bed, done by real American craftsman, they recoil in horror at the price. Want to see the best bedmaker in the USA? Here's the link - I sleep on one of these beds every night and also have three more in guest bedrooms in my own home. These are true heirloom quality and will last for generations unless the house catches on fire and they burn up. At one time, I used to sell about thirty per year of their beds, nowadays my clients won't pay the price (a bed averages $ 5K to $ 12K depending on complexity and wood). The internet has changed the way people shop, and there are a lot of "experts" out there that don't know a chisel from a screwdriver, but they will tell you that product "X" is well made and priced right, and people believe it.

Made in Tiverton, Rhode Island, one at a time. This is how you make a bed.

https://scottjamesfurniture.com/all-beds

Durham is solid wood, and I have looked at their line before. Being "Solid Wood" doesn't make them a premium builder in and of itself. They don't use a through-bolt mortise and tenon joinery like Scott James does, so over time they can loosen up and rattle - or even tear out if side stress is put on that hook method, but they are not priced like Plaud's beds, either. You can see the double hooks in this video when they put it together. I'm not a fan of these method of side rail attachment, they are prone to failure over time but this is a fairly common attachment method. Just not for me, the hooks rest over a pin, it works - but just barely. I have never carried hook beds in my store.

https://youtu.be/WFMweT_aTYE

This is how you want your rails to join. Unfortunately this video is over an hour long, but you can skip around it. A bed made this way will never break, fracture, rattle, or come apart. The headboard will be floating and as such no cracks or glue panel separation. This is craftsmanship and it cost money to make a bed like this. Lots of shop time!

https://youtu.be/WLDChvpOrMs

Wow, the Scott James beds are really beautiful, and as you said—heirloom pieces. It’s a shame that there are fewer opportunities for customers to become aware of such high-quality and well-made brands, and that such hand-crafted pieces are a rarity these days. As you mentioned in an earlier post, the less-expensive imports that saturate the market of mainstream chain furniture stores have really changed furniture buying. Your forum routinely highlights in many ways how a majority of customers are completely unaware of the content and construction of their furniture and home goods.

Had not known about the double-hook joinery of the Durham beds and hope I’ve not made a mistake with that purchase. Have had beds with rails that join both ways, but never really thought about how the bolt-joining is inherently stronger and therefore more durable. Enjoyed watching the through bolt mortise and tenon joinery on the Epic Woodworking video. I was jealous of the beautiful tools in his workshop; it has been nearly 20 years since I stopped woodworking. His chisels were so sharp and not worn-looking! Watching him work the wood to create something not only beautiful but very well made was great.

Duane, thanks for your insightful comments and the video links. I learned a lot.

My pleasure, I really appreciate fine-woodworking having gone to so many small woodworking shops over the decades, they showed me how to make furniture correctly, and unintended education fueled by my natural curiosity. It's not a lucrative business, most wood-workers like you saw in the video don't earn that much. Their pay is about half of what a decent car mechanic makes, but they have a passion for the art of making something by hand and seeing it evolve from wood to a beautiful piece, so they are always willing to chat about it. But it takes hours and hours to make some of those creations and they simply cannot sell them cheaply. I have never quite understood why people will be $ 50,000 for kitchen cabinets, but recoil at the thought of paying $ 5,000 for a decent chest of drawers.

Recently we had a client ask us to build a high-quality version of a Hooker Furniture import that was $ 2,000 or so as I recall. I said to scratch build that piece properly, as a one-off, will be about five times the price. He asked me to get a formal quote, so we did and it was 5x the price plus another $ 400 or so. He said "Too much" and that was that. Of course it depends on your income and allowance for goods you purchase, but I have mostly very high quality pieces in my own home and never tire of them. My regrets in furniture buying are always the cheap pieces I bring into my house, because as the old adage goes, "you get what you pay for". Most my good furniture is over 30 to 40 years old now, and it holds up plus is still beautiful to look at.

The conventional double hook rail attachment on the Durham beds you have on order will suffice, but here's the key to longevity and avoiding tear-out with them. Never pull the bed around by a post, that puts huge amount of stress on those attachment points. I know, its hard to avoid doing that, but if you have to move the bed then pick up each post and place furniture sliders underneath. Once those glides are under the post, the help take the stress off the hooks and don't jerk the bed when you move it. And don't pick up any one post more than 1" off the floor when the rails are attached. Do that and you should be fine.

i think that important are both of them!