Need help - Rug dealers in Chicago or Soutwest MI

Hi,
We're looking for a new rug to go with our awesome new H&M furniture. :)

I was originally going to purchase a rug online, but I'm nervous about doing so (especially because return shipping on an 8-10 rug is about $80...and who knows how many it will take before we find one we like).

We went to an oriental rug dealer in Grand Rapids this weekend. They had a nice selection of some very beautiful rugs, but none were exactly right.

Duane, I read your post about selecting a rug....knots/sq inch, look/feel, etc. I now see what you mean....you really have to see and feel the rug to determine the quality and get the right colors.

We currently have a Pottery Barn wool rug, which is about 6 years old. The edges have all frayed, and you can see the binding. So, we've decided to spend a bit more to get a better quality rug. We're thinking $2,000 or so. Hopefully we can find a nice one in that range (or not go over too much). ;)

Does anyone have any suggestions for some good/trustworthy/ethical rug dealers in Chicago, or in Southwest Michigan (Kalamazoo, Holland, Grand Rapids, etc.)? We want a good quality rug, at a reasonable price.

Thanks,
Amanda

Have you tried peerlessrugs.com? I think they have a brick-and-mortar store in Chicago?

Buying a rug is like buying art for the wall....it has to 'talk' to you. It should be appealing, not just 'make do'. Always take a calculator or have a phone app that can figure out square footage prices when you go rug shopping. Shopping rugs can be a shady business, so you want to compute price paid based on square footage. For example, a 6" x 9" rug is 54 S.F. If you're shopping a machine made, chromium-dyed rug, then you don't want to pay too much for it - probably not over $ 30 a s.f. or $ 1,620. If you get into basic Indian or Chinese rugs, that number may range in the $ 40 to 45 a s.f. range. Finer rugs and those that are handmade will be $ 70 to $ 80 a s.f.

Why is that important? A rug store might have a couple of very appealing rugs and a few not so appealing, all from the same vendor or manufacturing source. Their wholesale cost is the same per S.F., yet they will mark up the really appealing rugs in the store in hopes of higher profits. Lets say a rug vendor is selling a 6' x 9' for $ 2,700 ( $ 50 a s.f.) and its mediocre at best. However, there's a similar rug that you really like and you can tell is from the same source and its 7' x 8.6" and selling for $ 4,200. A little math shows that the rug you have your eye on is 59.5 s.f but he wants $ 70 a s.f. for it. Chances are his wholesale cost is the same per s.f. on each run (from the same source) so you have $ 20 per s.f to negotiate with - and might be able to tender an offer that will be accepted for the rug that you like at $ 3,000 instead of $ 4,200.

It took me about 8 years of buying rugs for the stores before I figured this out...lol. It doesn't always work in every instance, but I find when I'm buying rugs as soon as the calculator comes out the party is over and their faces go long....and we get down to brass tacks.

I can see why it takes a while....hand-knotted vs hand-tufted, type of dye, knots/sq inch, country of origin, etc. It's actually quite confusing!

At this point, I understand I want hand-knotted vs hand-tufted (which I understand is done with a hand-held tufting gun and will not last as long). And I know I should figure the cost/sq ft.

So do I also need to figure the knots/sq inch? I know that the more knots/sq inch, the more expensive....but how much more?

I found a seller on e-bay who includes the knots/sq inch in his listings, so for comparison purposes I calculated some of the cost/sq ft:

196 knots/sq inch ranges from $50 to $65/sq ft
100 knots/sq inch ranges from $30 to $40/sq ft
81 knots/sq inch ranges is about $20/sq ft

Am I looking at it the right way? Do these seem reasonable ranges to aim for?

I'm not going to buy one on e-bay, but it's the only place I've found so far that lists knots/sq inch.

Duane, do you ever sell rugs long distance? :)

You can't really buy based on knot-count, because that determines the fineness of the rug, not the quality. There are plenty of high-end, more tribal rugs with lower knot counts that command premium prices. If you want to count knots however just flip a corner of the rug over and with a pen or pencil count in a 1" square area.

Ebay sucks for rugs, Lots of dishonest rug merchants there and they sell the rugs cheap, but with high shipping charges so you pay dearly if you return them. I've bought rugs off EBAY before - most all were disappointing. Most are damaged or smelly with pet urine or filthy dirty, none of which you can see from the photos. I did about ten rugs on EBAY, all buys - got one really nice one out and the other nine were all stinkers.

Yes! I can do rugs long distance but you might not like the price. Most of the ones I have access to are hand-made Turkish carpets with vegetable dyes and village - grown wool, and most sell for $ 65 a s.f. !

Amanda - There's a Tufenkian showroom at the Chicago Furniture Mart and it's open to the public. I would love to make a trip there, because I think they carry the entire line of Tufenkian. I found one of their rugs I liked and was able to get a good price from a local vendor. (without the advantage of being able to look at the entire line!)

Thanks Duane! That's very helpful (and I'm glad I won't have to count a bunch of knots). :)

A few more questions: Does it matter what region the rug comes from (I read that rugs from India can be very nice, and reasonable on price)? Do I need to find something that is vegeatable dyed? Does it matter what type of wool (New Zealand wool, etc.)? How can I tell I'm getting a good/quality rug, where the dye won't run and the rug will last for a long time?

Do you think I can get a nice rug for $30-$40/sq ft? Or is it not worth looking for rugs in that price range (in terms of quality, longevity, beauty, etc.)? My husband wants to buy some parts for his Jeep....so I have a limit on how much I can spend. ;)

Yes, you have to be very careful on e-bay....it has it's uses, but some things are better purchased locally. You can really get taken if you're not careful.

Organic-small home...thanks for your suggestion on Peerless Rugs. I looked them up, and they do have a store in Chicago. Have you done business with them before? Or know someone who has?

wintersummer.....I see a few oriental rug dealers at the merchandise mart. Is there a specific one you've heard about that is reputable/reasonable on price?

Regions are used to identify a type of rug design more than anything. Rug buying is like wine...you can REALLY get into it at a level far-far above the one I'm at, which is novice at best. There are dozens of books on rug collecting and buying, and I know just enough to get myself into trouble.

Vegetable dyes (made from plant roots) are always more desirable. The colors are brighter, and they resist UV rays better than chemical dyes (Chromium). Wool is best when its village sourced and sheared by the men, then spun by the old ladies in the village. It retains all its lanolin that way and that helps repel spills on the carpet. Young girls and teenagers do the actual weaving as their fingers are nimble. Men trim the rugs, wash them in the river and take them to market. That's a classic build on a middle east rug.

Trust your eyes. I bet you can pick out good leather furniture from mediocre now - the same is true for rugs. Go to various rug stores and try to get them out of 'sales mode' and into 'information mode'. Ask then about construction and build, and specific regions of where a rug is made. You'll pick up tips that way IF you can find someone who knows his craft. Ask them to show you a really good rug and then one that is not so good, and to explain the difference. That will catch them off-guard, but it also gives them a chance to demonstrate their knowledge and they may very well do so.

I get my rugs from Woven Legends in Philadelphia. They are direct importers and set up entire villages in Turkey to weave just for them. While its not close to you, anyone here that wants a rug education can go there and spend the afternoon - ask lots of questions and flip through rugs. Good, honest people there.

I came back to re-read this post and find the name for Woven Legends. Very helpful post on price per square foot. I also posted an interesting link in another thread: http://www.arzustudiohope.org/default.aspx. These rugs are woven by Afghan women, and very beautiful alongside a positive cause. There are no prices online, but I emailed for a quote on one. My search continues...