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Thread: Other H&M Questions

  1. #1
    envirochick Guest

    Default Other H&M Questions

    drcollie:

    Thanks for posting the information about the Town and Country program. I have a few questions that came from my review of the spreadsheet.

    1. Do the following models have loose backs (it is difficult to tell in the photos): Restoration, Journey, Kodiak, Metro?

    2. On the Reserve Sofa, are the casters required?

    3. Would you say the September Sectional 9748 RAQ/LAQ is large scale?

    4. Is nailhead trim an option or included in the T&C program as per their website photos?

    5. This one is hard to word, I hope you understand what I'm trying to ask. Is it safe to say that when there are different textures/finishes (Document, Pueblo, San Marcos, Columbia), presented with the same color name, such as Saddle, that the color is fairly similar across all the textures/finishes?

    6. Of the following textures/finshes, can you tell me which are protected and what H&M grade they are considered: Columbia, Berkshire, Document, Cavalier, Kipling, Pueblo, San Marcos?

    7. You mentioned H&M will possibly make additions/changes to the T&C program this month. Do you expect it will be soon?

    Thanks so much for your time.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by envirochick View Post
    drcollie:

    1. Do the following models have loose backs (it is difficult to tell in the photos): Restoration, Journey, Kodiak, Metro?

    Restoration:Tight
    Journey: Attached
    Kodiak: Loose
    Metro: Loose


    2. On the Reserve Sofa, are the casters required?

    In most cases, another foot can be substituted, but customization charges will definitely apply.

    3. Would you say the September Sectional 9748 RAQ/LAQ is large scale?

    As sectionals go (and all of them are large to a degree) this one is not especially large. Average size I would say.

    4. Is nailhead trim an option or included in the T&C program as per their website photos?

    Nailhead trim is standard on items shown with it, and can be deleted in H&M at no additional charge. If the item does not show nailhead trim in the photo, then it would cost extra to have it applied.

    5. This one is hard to word, I hope you understand what I'm trying to ask. Is it safe to say that when there are different textures/finishes (Document, Pueblo, San Marcos, Columbia), presented with the same color name, such as Saddle, that the color is fairly similar across all the textures/finishes?

    Not really. What's in a name? Every leather should be looked at on its own merits and the names used only as an identifier.

    6. Of the following textures/finshes, can you tell me which are protected and what H&M grade they are considered: Columbia, Berkshire, Document, Cavalier, Kipling, Pueblo, San Marcos?

    Columbia: Grade 1, best of the Grade 1's in my opinion. I did most of The White House order last summer in Colombia and it came out nicely. Protected with Serviceability of 2 (wipe and go).

    Berkshire: Grade 2. A very pebbly texture. I have it on my wife's home office chair. Protected with Serviceability of 2 (wipe and go)

    Kipling: Grade 2. One of my favorites, I have on my recliner in my family room. Italian aniline, colors vary considerably from swatches. Supple, lots of variation. Protected with Serviceability of 3 (may not repel some oils and grease)

    Pueblo: Grade 2. Pebbly texture, supple. Protected with Serviceability of 3 (may not repel some oils and grease)

    San Marcos: Grade 1. Waxy, Western style hide. Attractive. Protected with Serviceability of 3 (may not repel some oils and grease)


    7. You mentioned H&M will possibly make additions/changes to the T&C program this month. Do you expect it will be soon?

    This month, though changes usually do not take place until the reps have had an opportunity to go around to all their dealers after Market. I have no idea what the changes will incorporate. There is some talk that fabric upholstery will be coming into the program. We'll have to wait and see.

    Thanks so much for your time.
    My pleasure!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
    envirochick Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    My pleasure!
    I so appreciate your help. While you were responding to my post, I was at my local H&M furniture store pulling swatches. They stock very little H&M on the floor. Unfortunately, they are about 2x as much as you are for the T&C program pieces. A couple of examples of T&C items would be the Garden Sofa; Local= $3995.00, Keeping Room=2393.00; Weymuth Recliner, Local=3799.00, Keeping Room=2260.00. While I didn't bring up your pricing, I did ask if the prices would allow room for discount and was told not on special order items, only on floor items and then they could take off about 10%. They had a Sloane sofa in married leather for 4500.00. I really want to support local businesses, but I've never been foolish.

    Could you give your opinion on the Document leathers?

    We really liked the Kipling Whiskey and I liked the San Marcos Saddle, but the sofas styles that correspond don't suit us very well. We're down to the September and Kodiak sofas in Document Copper and the Metro and Reserve in Berkshire Tobacco.

    I forgot to ask previously if the September sofa has loose backs?

    I live in a town with one H&M seller who has 2 sofas on the floor currently. Test driving these models is difficult at best. Could you give me a personal opinon of the comfort levels of the four sofa I list above? I promise not to hold you responsible in any way

    How long does it take to receive items in the T&C program?

    Can you give me a rough estimate on shipping cost to zip 70506? Or perhaps I should call you during business hours?

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    Quote Originally Posted by envirochick View Post
    I was at my local H&M furniture store pulling swatches. They stock very little H&M on the floor.

    My store is small, but I have thirty pieces of H&M on the floor - I really like the product and the people that make it. Its like businesses used to be, pride in workmanship, pride in ownership.

    Unfortunately, they are about 2x as much as you are for the T&C program pieces. A couple of examples of T&C items would be the Garden Sofa; Local= $3995.00, Keeping Room=2393.00; Weymuth Recliner, Local=3799.00, Keeping Room=2260.00.

    They might be a little high in today's market.

    While I didn't bring up your pricing, I did ask if the prices would allow room for discount and was told not on special order items, only on floor items and then they could take off about 10%. They had a Sloane sofa in married leather for 4500.00. I really want to support local businesses, but I've never been foolish.

    Could you give your opinion on the Document leathers?

    Honestly, this is a tough one. Document is the top-selling leather in the H&M line. Customers like it, and its soft and supple and comes in a bunch of colors. Its a leather from a tannery in China and a core hide for H&M. Personally I don't care for it very much. But, I work with these hides every day and with so much exposure to them I gravitate towards the more interesting, more exotic hides. What suits me may not suit the mainstream buyer. I find Document to be a solid, steady hide that repels most anything, but the colors are a somewhat muddy and the leather is too uniform for my tastes. It has two-tone or tri-tone shading that is hand-applied and I'm not a fan of that. Its a finished leather that has been sanded, embossed and pigmented. I prefer the more natural look of Kipling, Antelope, Equestrian, Capri, and hides such as that.

    We really liked the Kipling Whiskey and I liked the San Marcos Saddle, but the sofas styles that correspond don't suit us very well. We're down to the September and Kodiak sofas in Document Copper and the Metro and Reserve in Berkshire Tobacco.

    Kipling Whiskey is one of my all-time favorites. San Marcos is great, too. One thing to remember is that with proper care, you will have theses pieces twenty years or longer (I have a H&M Recliner in my home that is now 22 years old and in great shape). You should really try to get the frame you want in the hide you want, even if it costs you a bit more. While compromise is good on the budget, in a few years you might find yourself saying 'I wish I would have go that sofa in the Kipling for another thousand dollars'. I've heard that many times over the years, but never have had customer who bought the leather they wanted come back and tell me they wished they had bought the special and saved the money.

    I forgot to ask previously if the September sofa has loose backs?

    Yes, they are loose.

    I live in a town with one H&M seller who has 2 sofas on the floor currently. Test driving these models is difficult at best. Could you give me a personal opinon of the comfort levels of the four sofa I list above? I promise not to hold you responsible in any way

    Ho boy! OK:

    September, Journey and Kodiak : Built for comfort.
    Restoration and Metro: Built for style.


    How long does it take to receive items in the T&C program?

    As quick as 4 weeks production time. Rarely more then 6 -7 weeks. But allow 3 to 4 weeks delivery time after its been handed to the shipper. I see you're in Louisiana, and I have some other customers there. Shipping into that area is a bit slower now than in the past, so they are waiting until the trucks are full before running that route.

    Can you give me a rough estimate on shipping cost to zip 70506? Or perhaps I should call you during business hours?
    For just (1) Sofa you'll be looking at about $ 230.00 via Home Delivery Service.

    Store phone is 703-360-6399 - call anytime!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #5
    envirochick Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    For just (1) Sofa you'll be looking at about $ 230.00 via Home Delivery Service.

    Store phone is 703-360-6399 - call anytime!
    Boy, I have a lot of questions. I apologize in advance for my continuous hunt for H&M information.

    Well, maybe we need to rethink the Document leather (even though hubby likes it a lot coupled with the September sofa). I thought I had read on a gardenwebforum post that H&M did everything in US. I didn't know they used and/or processed leather in China any longer. Are many of the other hides from China? Most of them in the T&C textures?

    I'm looking at three Document colors at this moment: Copper, Bronze and Honey (you can definitely see what shade we lean towards). The honey sample looks quite varied compared to the others, it almost looks likes it would be called something different entirely. It looks more natural. The others look fairly uniform. When you speak of the two tone or tri-tone shading, are you referring to what looks to be a darker "top pigment" on the hide? Since I'm at such a loss with my local store not having these colors on a piece of furniture, can you tell me if the overall effect looks mottled? Is that why it's rated as Special Effects = 4? Do they have to put extra time into it because it is not a nice hide otherwise? You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of the three colors I mention on pieces of furniture, or could you direct me to a pic on the H&M website perhaps? I do know the colors will not be the same as in person, but thought I could get an idea of the effect. I did see a chair in Hand-Antiqued Saddle and that is an effect I'm not fond of and am hoping these Document colors don't have a similar "black shoe polish" effect.

    Going to the next question: My local store has a ring of hides marked T&C. Then they have other rings separated by class of hide. The class II ring has many Cavalier, Berkshire, Document hides that are not included on the T&C ring. When you quoted prices on your spreadsheet and gave a price for non-married cover, was that only for certain hide colors in a particular texture or did it truly mean all the Cavaliers, Berkshires, Documents etc...?

    Okay, so the September certainly looks like it's built for comfort, but is the Metro not good for lounging at all? Even with some nice throw pillows against the arms? I figured because of the loose back cushions it would be more comfortable than say, Restoration. It's the only transitional we could agree on. I have narrow room dimensions and am trying to gt the most inside width for the least outside width. Metro is a good candidate. However, the room is for living in and needs to be comfy most of all. If it was my decision alone it'd be the Donovan in Kipling Whiskey. The Sloane I sat on was, to me and for a tufted back, suprisingly comfy. I could've read the Sunday paper easily in a supine position on it. I guess the point is that it seems in line with H&M to built a stylish sofa that is still comfortable. I was hoping that included Metro. Darn, I wish the closest city wasn't 4 hours away. Even then there's no guarantee they'll have the models I'm looking for.

    And last, could you price out September, Metro and Kodiak in the Kipling Whiskey?

    Thank you.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by envirochick View Post
    Boy, I have a lot of questions. I apologize in advance for my continuous hunt for H&M information.

    Fire away! That's what the forum is here for!

    Well, maybe we need to rethink the Document leather (even though hubby likes it a lot coupled with the September sofa). I thought I had read on a gardenwebforum post that H&M did everything in US. I didn't know they used and/or processed leather in China any longer. Are many of the other hides from China? Most of them in the T&C textures?

    Like I said, Document is one of the mainstay hides for H&M. Certainly you would be in good company as there are hundreds of pieces in Document sold every week at H&M (average output there is 300 pieces per day). Choosing leather is like drinking wine. When you first drink wine you tend to go with sweeter generics, such as a Pink Chablis or pehaps a Rhine wine. That would be Document. As your tastes evolve and you become more discriminating in your palete, you move from the generic wines to varietals, such as a Chein Blanc or a Merlot. Then when your taste is fully developed you treat yourself to a fine Chadonnay or a Cabernet Savignon. Leather is just like that. As you move to the finer categories, you have to pay more, just as in wine.

    All leather houses have hides from China these days. The market (thats you, the consumer!) demands it. You want a certain quality, and yet rebel at a certain price point. So the manufacturer is forced to try to service that price point yet still keep the quality in the piece. H&M does that by sourcing hides from China for the promotional groups, and the hides are decent. Tanning leather is labor intensive, and also ecologically a nightmare. China can provide the cheap leather and does not have an EPA overlooking their tanneries, the end result is less expensive leather.

    As an example, I can take something like an Austin Sofa in Cavalier (also a Chinese hide) and it will price out at around $ 2,600 or so (exact price is on the spreadsheet). By doing nothing more than putting Capri, Grade IV leather on it (German) we're going to make tha sofa $ 4,600 or so. That's a $ 2,000 upgrade on the exact same frame, foam, cushions, etc. Its significant, and really depends on customer income, willingness to spend, etc.

    A leather like Kipling is mixed. The tannery that supplies Kipling is in Italy, but they have opened a facility in China as well. Some of the Kipling comes out of Italy, another batch may come out of China. So it can be confusing.

    H&M has a made in China line of leather furniture that is sold under the trademark name of Randall Allen which I do not carry. Anything that is labeled 'Hancock and Moore' is made in the USA, though it may have a Chinese hide on it if thats' what you select.

    I'm looking at three Document colors at this moment: Copper, Bronze and Honey (you can definitely see what shade we lean towards). The honey sample looks quite varied compared to the others, it almost looks likes it would be called something different entirely. It looks more natural. The others look fairly uniform. When you speak of the two tone or tri-tone shading, are you referring to what looks to be a darker "top pigment" on the hide? Since I'm at such a loss with my local store not having these colors on a piece of furniture, can you tell me if the overall effect looks mottled? Is that why it's rated as Special Effects = 4? Do they have to put extra time into it because it is not a nice hide otherwise? You wouldn't happen to have any pictures of the three colors I mention on pieces of furniture, or could you direct me to a pic on the H&M website perhaps? I do know the colors will not be the same as in person, but thought I could get an idea of the effect. I did see a chair in Hand-Antiqued Saddle and that is an effect I'm not fond of and am hoping these Document colors don't have a similar "black shoe polish" effect.


    I'll get some photos when I get back in the store on Monday and post them here to show you what Document looks like.



    Going to the next question: My local store has a ring of hides marked T&C. Then they have other rings separated by class of hide. The class II ring has many Cavalier, Berkshire, Document hides that are not included on the T&C ring. When you quoted prices on your spreadsheet and gave a price for non-married cover, was that only for certain hide colors in a particular texture or did it truly mean all the Cavaliers, Berkshires, Documents etc...?

    This is where it all gets confusing. I'll try to explain.

    Married Cover means the leather is sourced and cut and sewn at the point of origin of the leather. So the cover for that particular frame arrives at H&M in a 'kit' form in a box. When they get an order, then they build the frame, foam it, pull the kit out and compete the job. Your best price will always be in Married Cover, though obviously matching one piece to another is not as easy to do. Typically there are not many color choices in Married Cover as they would have a lot of kits to stock if there were.

    Non-Married Cover means that hide is NOT in a Kit Form, but resides at H&M in NC as a loose hide. It will be cut and sewn in Hickory NC.


    Okay, so the September certainly looks like it's built for comfort, but is the Metro not good for lounging at all? Even with some nice throw pillows against the arms? I figured because of the loose back cushions it would be more comfortable than say, Restoration. It's the only transitional we could agree on. I have narrow room dimensions and am trying to gt the most inside width for the least outside width. Metro is a good candidate. However, the room is for living in and needs to be comfy most of all. If it was my decision alone it'd be the Donovan in Kipling Whiskey. The Sloane I sat on was, to me and for a tufted back, suprisingly comfy. I could've read the Sunday paper easily in a supine position on it. I guess the point is that it seems in line with H&M to built a stylish sofa that is still comfortable. I was hoping that included Metro. Darn, I wish the closest city wasn't 4 hours away. Even then there's no guarantee they'll have the models I'm looking for.

    Not necessarily. The Metro is comfortable, but built more towards an emphasis on style. What I find comfortable and what you find comfy may be worlds apart as well. A lot depends on not only lifestyle, but body type as well. Truth be told I have not come across a single H&M sofa I would label as 'uncomfortable' though I certainly have in some other brands.

    I have a Cabo in the store in Kipling Whiskey, which is really close in form to the Donovan. I'l photo that tomorrow as well and post it here.


    And last, could you price out September, Metro and Kodiak in the Kipling Whiskey?

    Will do on Monday.


    Thank you.
    Keep asking away!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  7. #7
    envirochick Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    Keep asking away!
    And so I will....


    Okay, if I understand, not all but most of H&M's promtional covers will be from Chinese cows, tanned in China...it just depends. If I buy a September T&C program sofa in Document (insert color here), it will be from China. If I by the Donovan in Kipling Whiskey, it may be from China or Italy. All of them are put together in NC, USA. The warranty is the same for all of the pieces. What is the warranty exactly? I've read your posts discussing the warranty, but H&M's website lists a warranty that is lesser.

    My H&M dealer also stocks Randall Allen. I actually fell in love with one of their styles, did research on them, read some horrible reviews and posts (read your comments too) about their leather quality and quality control, then started searching H&M's website for the same style without luck. Anyway, that's how I got here.


    drcollie wrote:
    "Married Cover means the leather is sourced and cut and sewn at the point of origin of the leather. So the cover for that particular frame arrives at H&M in a 'kit' form in a box. When they get an order, then they build the frame, foam it, pull the kit out and compete the job. Your best price will always be in Married Cover, though obviously matching one piece to another is not as easy to do. Typically there are not many color choices in Married Cover as they would have a lot of kits to stock if there were.

    Non-Married Cover means that hide is NOT in a Kit Form, but resides at H&M in NC as a loose hide. It will be cut and sewn in Hickory NC


    I'm still confused on this because my local dealer told me I could only choose colors on the T&C ring, not on the Class II ring. They had pricing as you did: one price for a married cover in a specific texture/color(s) and a second price for what seemed to be the entire hide line. But not all the Documents on the Class II ring were on the T&C ring. So, for Semptember, I could choose Document Copper for one price or any Document on the T&C ring at another price and any other Document on the Class II ring for a third price, which was not part of the T&C program. I found two colors on the Class II ring that I liked, Document Honey and Document Bronze. Would those be included under the Non-Married Cover price on your spreadsheet? It certainly has crossed my mind that my local dealer/rep doesn't understand the program, although she was very sure of herself. As I've said in a previous post, my town is still buying, buying, buying. I was in two high end stores yesterday (both having mediocre sales) and people acted as though they were giving furniture away for nothing. They were so unbelieveably crowded. I pulled my own swatches and wrote my own check-out ticket just so my girl could help the other three of her customers that had come in.

    I understand what you're saying about body type and sofa comfort; we're both fairly fit of average weight, 5'2" and 5'11" - I'm the short one. With regard to lifestyle we have no kids or pets at home, but two grandkids we like to have over as often as possible. We take good care of our stuff, yet we really live in our living room. The room has 5 windows and it gets sun in the afternoon; I keep the blinds closed except on Weekend mornings mostly. In our living room we host parties, have friends over, talk, drink wine, watch TV, eat, read, listen to music, play Wii video games, nap, do the Sunday crossword together etc... That said my old leather sofa was 20 yrs old and was still in lovely condition, although not right for our new house.

    I look forward to photos of the Documents and the Kipling. Thanks. I sure hope we can do business after I either a) get over the Chinese hide thing, or b) decide to spend more money. You've really been a great help.
    Last edited by envirochick; 10-05-2008 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Poor color choice

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by envirochick;441
    Okay, if I understand, not all but most of H&M's promotional covers will be from Chinese cows, tanned in China...it just depends.

    [B
    Correct! There are some exceptions, but finding country of origin in hides is like pulling teeth, all suppliers are aware of the resentment towards Chinese made product these days and as such are reluctant to disclose.[/B]

    If I buy a September T&C program sofa in Document (insert color here), it will be from China.

    All Document leather comes from China, so that is correct.

    If I by the Donovan in Kipling Whiskey, it may be from China or Italy. All of them are put together in NC, USA.

    Yes, that is correct.

    The warranty is the same for all of the pieces. What is the warranty exactly? I've read your posts discussing the warranty, but H&M's website lists a warranty that is lesser.

    I'll have to get it out of the book, and can scan it as an attachment. I'm reluctant to quote it from memory (on my home computer right now). However, one thing I REALLY like about H&M is the non-stated service levels they will do. The customer always gets the benefit of the doubt on something (which means it does not always go their way, but if they can help out, they will.)

    Case in point. Last year a customer mail-ordered a pair of sofas in Document Sage, a tri-tone hide. The sofas arrived and the customer absolutely hated them, they did not look at they had expected. There were no defects on either sofa. Now, neither myself as the dealer or Hancock and Moore had any duty to take these back. Legally, we were in the clear as we had delivered the product as ordered and on time. However, the customer was very upset so I went to bat for her and spoke with the President of H&M and he agreed to take one back (to go in the H&M Market Showroom) and I agreed to take the other for my showroom. We then let the customer re-order in Antelope Harness (a more expensive hide), though the customer had to pay the round-trip freight costs. In the end, she was happy and that was the most important aspect. H&M took the one sofa back because I asked them too, and there's not another leather house that I know of that would do that.

    They also will repair ANY of their pieces long after the warranty, and repair damages to their items that might occur in use and moving that are the customers fault (prices for these repairs are very reasonable, too). No other upholstery maker will do that to my knowledge.

    Consider the stated warranty the minimum they will do, but they will frequently do more than that 'unofficially' on a case by case basis.


    My H&M dealer also stocks Randall Allen. I actually fell in love with one of their styles, did research on them, read some horrible reviews and posts (read your comments too) about their leather quality and quality control, then started searching H&M's website for the same style without luck. Anyway, that's how I got here.

    I don't carry Chinese made furniture in my store. No exceptions, regardless of the maker.


    I'm still confused on this because my local dealer told me I could only choose colors on the T&C ring, not on the Class II ring.

    That's mostly correct. In Married cover, there are only a few color choices. However if you look on the spreadsheet and it lists ANY DOCUMENT, then you are free to choose any Document color in the line at the higher price point. Town and Country actually has various steps to it, though I find most dealers don't understand it well.



    They had pricing as you did: one price for a married cover in a specific texture/color(s) and a second price for what seemed to be the entire hide line. But not all the Documents on the Class II ring were on the T&C ring.

    They are in error. All Document colorways can be selected in the non-married cover column.

    So, for Semptember, I could choose Document Copper for one price or any Document on the T&C ring at another price and any other Document on the Class II ring for a third price, which was not part of the T&C program.

    That may be their internal pricing structure they choose to implement, but its not the correct way. (See above comment).


    I found two colors on the Class II ring that I liked, Document Honey and Document Bronze. Would those be included under the Non-Married Cover price on your spreadsheet?

    Yes, most definitely.

    It certainly has crossed my mind that my local dealer/rep doesn't understand the program, although she was very sure of herself.

    Bingo.

    The room has 5 windows and it gets sun in the afternoon; I keep the blinds closed except on Weekend mornings mostly.

    Watch the aniline dyed leathers then. They will fade rapidly in direct sunlight. If you keep the blinds closes and the sun off the pieces, you will be OK. I have aniline dyed leather in my family room, with large palladium windows, but my wife and I actually cover the pieces with throws during the week when we are both at work, and I have solar tint film on the windows as well.

    I look forward to photos of the Documents and the Kipling. Thanks. I sure hope we can do business after I either a) get over the Chinese hide thing, or b) decide to spend more money. You've really been a great help.
    Glad to assist. As you can see, I'm a bit passionate about fine leathers and enjoy working with them. At the end of the day its what hide you want and what price point is comfortable for you. I would guess 90% of my customers come in looking for the Town and Country items, but only about 40 % order in that category. Once we start going through the hides, many choose to upgrade. While most dealers only show T&C on their floor, I have many high end hides on my H&M showroom pieces and that helps to compare and contrast in person. You know how it is...once you see the good stuff ...
    Duane Collie
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    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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    Here's some photos, two of pieces in Document, one in Kipling Whiskey.

    Prices in Kipling (Grade II)

    September # 9749: $ 3,766
    Metro # 4390: $ 3.045
    Kodiak # 9503: $ 3,703

    Scan of the Warranty Policy to follow.....
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    Duane Collie
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  10. #10
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    Here is the Hancock and Moore warranty policy as of the date of this posting.
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    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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