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Thread: Buy American

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Buy American

    I just had a forum member fly up today from Sugarland Texas to place a H & M order of (4) pieces. The savings made it well worth the cost of an airline ticket and a day on the plane. Of course, with Bradington Young we don't have price restrictions so that can be one over the phone.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Buy American

    Very good discussion here. Overall though, this is a complex topic with many nuances on either side (manufacturer vs. consumer). Here is an example:

    As we all know, H&M just implemented even stricter MAP's, which is what forced someone from Sugarland. TX to fly to Duane and waste 10hrs in airplane to place an order. Why is that? the answer is simple and complex. Simple is that H&M wants to protect their brand & their dealers and their markup is high enough that they can afford to. They earned their reputation on quality, so they can lead by example. That's fine, of course and any company can set any prices they want, but obviously, if they set too high, they wouldn't sell, so they are fine with selling 10 pieces for 5k each than 50 pieces for 3k each. Their profit would be same since less overhead (cost of materials, extra pay for employees and such) and they will maintain exclusivity. Now, imagine if H&M lowered their rules and Duane could sell 50 sets/month instead of 10. Since his only overhead is more paperwork and more delivery orders, he would welcome it... So, one can argue that H&M being so strict kinda screws him too... But, he also doesn't have a choice.

    I think most people want to support US industry and the skilled workforce to make the best possible living. The caveat comes in when it's either buying a $800 chinese couch you saw at a local store that will last you 5 years and makes your wife happy or spend a while looking and researching and then buying online from a high end place for $4k. To some it maybe fun, some people like traveling of flying, so the forum member may have placed an order and made a weekend of it in the capital. But, I suspect most, can't do that, so asking them to jump through so many hoops to get H&m couch, often becomes unreasonable. We can pass blame on many elements, but one of the main elements in the company itself.

    Here are 2 examples from my experience:

    1. I found a palliser couch I was interested in. I looked for dealers and found 3 within 30 miles. I called two on friday to make an inquiry about it and they told me they don't have it and can't/won't get it. I asked why not... since pallister lists them as a dealer. They said: yes, we have 4-6 of their models but can't get the rest... Shot down again. Most of the things those stores carry, aren't even listed by brands. Some are american made but rest are not.

    2. I spent all summer looking for my first sofa. I wanted a quality, american made 8 way hand tied one. I had few requirements, one of which was lower back. I finally found it, measured width, room specs and it fit.. I found it for less in a reliable store but after talking with Duane and because I wanted to support a smaller establishment with hands on service from the owner, instead of a bit larger place, I went with him. 8 weeks later, the couch did not fit as it was carried to 2nd floor. Is it my fault that it didn't fit. Yes, absolutely, but in my defense it was a very hard to foresee situation where it wasn't the width or height issue but a width + height + rising step issue which was almost impossible to foresee or measure (the issue was the width from top left corner to bottom right corner (hypotenuse in the triangle). I was so heartbroken that I didn't even take pictures of the couch as it was outside while I was on the phone with delivery folks and Duane, who both told me.. nothing I can do for you - custom order, manufacturer won't take it back. Duane offered for me to ship it to his store and knock down the price, but he was honest with me, he doesn't sell much of the modern, non-leather sofa's so we both knew it was going to be near impossible.

    So, now I am kinda screwed and my thought was just to abandon the damn thing and move on...

    Here is my point: buying sofa, for an apartment sucks. Trying to find sofa that fits and American made, sucks even more. There is nothing else B&Y makes that fits me. Pallister or my store are idiots for limiting the models they sell. Of course, I will spend more time and find more stores locally, but it shouldn't be this hard... Since I work in merchandising for many clients, I will find it because I am persistent but I guarantee you, 95% of people in my place will go to closest store, find model that fits and makes their family happy and buy it. 99% of the time, it will be a Chinese brand. In 3-5 years, they will throw it away and buy another one. Convenience often worth much more to people than others realize.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Buy American

    The H&M price restrictions came about because potential customers were walking quotes into their local dealers asking them to price match them, and it made the local dealers crazy and they called H&M to complain. Though it might seem like a clever thing to do for a consumer (see that convenience factor you are addressing caesar), they kinda shot themselves in the foot so to speak and now we have pricing restrictions because of it.

    Most stores - by far - are terrified of alienating their customers so they carry what the customer asks for which is typically 'Something that looks nice and is not too expensive". They don't think they can sell a $ 4,000 sofa, so they carry the $ 999 one, which by necessity of hitting that price point is going to be Chinese junk. They under-estimate their sales skills for one thing, and secondly don't really care about their customer long term. I have always taken a different tack with my store by demanding quality first - price is second. That extends to everything in my store from candles (Root Candle Company) to lamps (Wildwood & Fredrick Cooper) to furniture. I can't be enthusiastic selling junk, and I don't ever lie...ever. If someone asks me how its made they get a straight answer. How am I going to sell something that I know is going to the landfill in 4 years time? I can't......other stores have no conscience and will sell you ANYTHING to get your money and simply hang up on you 4 years later when you call them to complain their $ 999 sofa has sagged out. So my position has always been to carry quality product, take the time to explain WHY it costs more, and then let the customer decide for themselves. It's all about information and giving the customer that knowledge so they can make an informed decision. If it's not in their budget at the end of the day, so be it - I get that. They will have to go down the road to the next store because I won't bring in a line to meet a market price point.

    The whole H&M pricing policy frustrates me hugely. They DO build the best in class and I know there are a few dealers out there not abiding by that new price policy and taking the sales I have to turn away. Its nutty.

    As to getting pieces to fit into homes, that can be hugely challenging trying to figure it out ahead of time. In a year's time we probably have a dozen orders that won't fit in the home and aren't going to fit. It's costly and frustrating for everyone involved when that happens. Unfortunately there is no hard and fast formula to measure sofa "A" and guarantee it will fit through doorway "B". A lot of times its just experience and a really good delivery crew that get something in the door that another team can't do. Other times we are just flat upon against the physics and they won't go. Pieces always look smaller in the showroom and see to get larger when they come to your home.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Buy American

    For those situations in which a sofa just will not fit into a home there are furniture repair companies that specialize in taking sofas apart, getting them into the room and then putting them back together. I assume that this will invalidate any manufacturer's warranty but these services have been around for many years and I have never heard of any complaints.

    They usually work on high end sofas (and expensive wood pieces as well) since the approx. $500 cost is not something most people will spend for a cheap piece of furniture.These service companies started in New York City, where there are several of them. The original firm, Dr. Sofa (http://www.drsofa.com) has been expanding into other cities recently, including (I believe) Washington DC.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Buy American

    d

  6. #36
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Buy American

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    You can buy a Taylor King Americas Pride sofa in a USA made fabric from my store for $ 1,449 + shipping and I will put that sofa up against any other piece from any maker. Solid maple frame, 8 way hantied springs and Qualux cushions. Here are two in my store that you can buy 'mail order' at that price, complete with pillows.

    http://www.myfurnitureforum.com/show...llection-sofas

    You can buy a leather Bradington-Young sofa made in the USA for $2,000 + shipping.

    The sofas you want to buy are out there for reasonable prices, you may have to change where you shop!


    Duane, would you shoot me a picture, link, or model number/name of that B-Y leather sofa you mentioned in this post? I'm trying to convince my wife we could possibly go with 2 sofas instead of the sectional, which may also be cost effective in my favor.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Buy American

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    The H&M price restrictions came about because potential customers were walking quotes into their local dealers asking them to price match them, and it made the local dealers crazy and they called H&M to complain. Though it might seem like a clever thing to do for a consumer (see that convenience factor you are addressing caesar), they kinda shot themselves in the foot so to speak and now we have pricing restrictions because of it.

    Most stores - by far - are terrified of alienating their customers so they carry what the customer asks for which is typically 'Something that looks nice and is not too expensive". They don't think they can sell a $ 4,000 sofa, so they carry the $ 999 one, which by necessity of hitting that price point is going to be Chinese junk. They under-estimate their sales skills for one thing, and secondly don't really care about their customer long term. I have always taken a different tack with my store by demanding quality first - price is second. That extends to everything in my store from candles (Root Candle Company) to lamps (Wildwood & Fredrick Cooper) to furniture. I can't be enthusiastic selling junk, and I don't ever lie...ever. If someone asks me how its made they get a straight answer. How am I going to sell something that I know is going to the landfill in 4 years time? I can't......other stores have no conscience and will sell you ANYTHING to get your money and simply hang up on you 4 years later when you call them to complain their $ 999 sofa has sagged out. So my position has always been to carry quality product, take the time to explain WHY it costs more, and then let the customer decide for themselves. It's all about information and giving the customer that knowledge so they can make an informed decision. If it's not in their budget at the end of the day, so be it - I get that. They will have to go down the road to the next store because I won't bring in a line to meet a market price point.

    The whole H&M pricing policy frustrates me hugely. They DO build the best in class and I know there are a few dealers out there not abiding by that new price policy and taking the sales I have to turn away. Its nutty.

    As to getting pieces to fit into homes, that can be hugely challenging trying to figure it out ahead of time. In a year's time we probably have a dozen orders that won't fit in the home and aren't going to fit. It's costly and frustrating for everyone involved when that happens. Unfortunately there is no hard and fast formula to measure sofa "A" and guarantee it will fit through doorway "B". A lot of times its just experience and a really good delivery crew that get something in the door that another team can't do. Other times we are just flat upon against the physics and they won't go. Pieces always look smaller in the showroom and see to get larger when they come to your home.
    I hear ya about why dealers were driven crazy but I suspect that's because many H&M dealers aren't willing to take the time as you do. I am one of those guys who will price match and ask for one but this time it wasn't the case for me because $100 over/under cost over a $1900 item + future support and knowledge is just not worth it. I also prefer straight talk, since I hear smoke all day, so when you told me that... we can try selling it here but chances are it won't move - that basically saved me time and money and I appreciated that. This new policy is simply costing you sales - plain and simple.

    The problem with most stores - as you said - all of those elements but it's also the mindset of the consumer. Maybe many of them are this inflexible because of previous experience with clueless customers, who knows?

    As for fitting, that's where I needed a local store so I can either look or have some sort of agreement on return. The problem is, most stores may think I am trying to be funny or sleazy with that request when it's the last thing on my mind. I just want a quality sofa that fits... hard to imagine but it's true. While I am here, can someone comment on these 2, I think they should fit....

    http://www.palliser.com/furniture/Pr....html?id=77857
    http://www.henredon.com/Furniture/Up...DLER-SOFA.aspx

  8. #38
    MRSSQRDAWAY Guest

    Default Re: Buy American

    HENREDON QUALITY
    Was (past tense) the very best I had ever purchased. Guessing twenty five years ago. Henredon is still showing same model in their online presentation. The white cotton brocade FIRESIDE selection. Sofa with lawson arms, fringe skirt ,loose pillows on back and two chairs, pleated skirt and english arms I had the two club chairs reupholsered. I requested to see the frames after they were stripped down. There were built like a Mack truck. Wonderful so far. When they were delivered back to my home. They were ruined. I had the sofa picked up by a charity. Henredon is not the quality manufacturer it was . I had read to not expect same quality, Chinese imports, using plywood and card board underneath the beautiful fabric.

  9. #39
    Cookie Guest

    Default Re: Buy American

    I try to buy American as much as I can, especially for the heavily used items. For example, my main seating pieces are Sherrill and H&M, and my mattress and box spring is McRoskey. I expect all of them to last many many years.

    I also have pieces made in Vietnam (Theordore Alexander), Philippines (Maitland-Smith), and China (Hooker Furniture, AICO). They fit my need and budget constraint at the time. Now I am looking to replace them gradually over time, with high quality ones. But I do regret buying these veneer pieces in the first place. If I had known any better, I would have saved and waited a bit longer and got it done right the first time.

    I also like to buy local, for two reasons: 1) supporting local business, and 2) for the convenience of getting things repaired/replaced immediately, if damage were to occur during shipping or delivery.

    There was one local store I trust a lot, and from whom I bought many of my pieces. Their pricing on H&M pieces was quite a bit higher than Duane's (I know because I got a quote from Duane for the Sundance chairs for comparison). Ultimately, I remained loyal to my local store and didn't do price negotiation, because I felt like that's the right thing to do. Unfortunately, they closed their door last year, thanks to the high rent and relatively low demand for mid-high end furniture.

    So now I feel free to shop wherever, and Duane's store is on the top of my to-visit list.
    Last edited by Cookie; 11-18-2013 at 03:03 PM.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Buy American

    Quote Originally Posted by simplyjeff View Post
    For those situations in which a sofa just will not fit into a home there are furniture repair companies that specialize in taking sofas apart, getting them into the room and then putting them back together. I assume that this will invalidate any manufacturer's warranty but these services have been around for many years and I have never heard of any complaints. They usually work on high end sofas (and expensive wood pieces as well) since the approx. $500 cost is not something most people will spend for a cheap piece of furniture.These service companies started in New York City, where there are several of them. The original firm, Dr. Sofa (http://www.drsofa.com) has been expanding into other cities recently, including (I believe) Washington DC.
    I've used them, but OH MY - what they do to the piece is terrible. They remove the cover and foam, cut the frame in half longways - take it into the room where it goes, then put it all back together using steel joining straps. Heck yes, the warranty is gone - and that's something we use as a last resort. Better to get a Simplicty Sofa that the customer can build in their home when space is tight - WAY BETTER.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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