Are you a leather snob?

[AZJoe]

Just in the last few days, I have had some interesting encounters, and it got me thinking. I am sure Duane, and some of you well versed in all things leather, have some funny stories to share on this topic.

Did you ever have a friend, sales person, or possibly a random stranger, talk about how nice a leather is, and you just think to yourself(or maybe say) that they are sadly mistaken? Or possibly have to school a self proclaimed expert?

I want to preface this by saying I know very little about leather in general, but in comparison to myself a few weeks ago, have picked up some of the basics. This is more about people speaking with authority, or certainty, who clearly shouldn't be.


I was showing a friend some gr3 and gr4 H&M hides trying to get his opinion on colors, and he kept comparing them to his Ashley sofa, almost in a way that made the H&M sound inferior..lol All the while I thought in my head "what in gods name are you saying".

Then the other day I was strolling through a decent furniture store, looking for a dining table. I had a few H&M samples with me, so I could try and find something that went well with my top choices. The gentleman who was helping me was an interior designer, and asked to see the samples.

He ran his fingernail down the Kipling Whiskey, and in an assertive, and flamboyant tone says "Oh you don't want this one, it is not aniline" then proceeded to explain why it wasn't aniline, and made it sound cheap.. I bit my tongue again.

I just notice myself being more critical of leather, and noticing things that I would have completely glossed over even 2 weeks ago. I am kind of shocked by how many absolutely awful pieces of leather(if you can call them that) are sitting in these stores, with fairly outrageous price-tags. It makes you really feel like you are almost stealing H&M from Duane..



/rant..

[hglaber]

My favorite was when I went to into a store and said I was looking for a leather recliner. The sales person took me straight to a huge leather piece displayed with pride in the center of the recliner display. One of their best sellers, she said.

It had more seams on it than a patchwork quilt.

Bustle back (2 seams on the front of each cushion), rolled arms (2 seams on top of each arm), full-width leg rest with full-width horizontal seam across the center, and 2 vertical seams on each panel above and below the horizontal seam. You keeping count? No? Well that's 18 separate pieces of leather just on faces of the back, arms, and leg rest.

Only the seat cushion and side panels had no seams on their faces. I assume that means the side panel was a matching vinyl. Store price on the thing? Over $1000. We got about 10 feet away when I said "That is not what I am looking for." I was (and still am) no expert on furniture, leather or otherwise, but I knew I didn't want thing, especially not for $1000. Shouldn't there be a discount since it was (apparently) stitched together from samples?

[drcollie]

<laughing> Good stories! A little knowledge is dangerous they say...but this is EXACTLY why this forum exists. It's a place for learning.

As far as retailers, they always fall back on the ole line "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bulls_it". Unfortunately, many would rather read the newspaper during down times rather than study the product they sell.

My store started as a handcrafted wood reproduction store. We built copies of 18th century furnishings and I became very well versed in that, because I would drive our truck to all the small shops up in New England and ask a thousand questions while I was there. I'd wear my cabinentmakers out with questions! Since I made all the pickup trips personally, I learned about woods, the tools that built them, the finishing, and even repairs. for nearly 20 years that's all we did. Then the market for this style of furniture fell away and leather upholstery came on very strong. I had to switch into that product to stay in business, and did so with the same fervor and curiosity that I dedicated to the wood product (which we still have). When these leather suppliers all came in with their wares it made my head spin....I had no idea what this language was they were talking of "Aniline, Pull-Up, Quaalux, Pigmented, LAF or RAF, etc.". It took a while for me to learn what it all meant, and I'm STILL learning. When someone here asks me a question I can't answer, I get on the phone to Hancock & Moore, Leathercraft, Bradington-Young, or Taylor King, and find the answer. The standing joke at H&M is that we should have one of those Sprint 2-way phones that act like walkie-talkies because I call there so many times in a day. This is also why I take tours of the production plants (whey they allow it) and spend time at Market discussing product details. The best compliment I ever got was from the owner of Hancock and Moore who told me "You know our product line well enough to work here".

The internet is a wonderful and magnificent tool. We could not have these exchanges of information without it. Twenty years ago, how did you learn about things like this? You went to stores and tried to find an honest salesperson is how - or read Consumer Reports. That was about it. Now with the 'net, there is SO much information out there you can be educated in a matter of hours on a topic, all without leaving home.

I will go so far as to say that the internet actually saved my life. Five and a half years ago I was declared terminal with Stage IV cancer. My area doctors just shook their head, held my hand and said "you should get your affairs in order". I heard that from three different physicians who all said I was going to die in a few months. My personality is such that I'm a scrapper - I got on the internet for hours and hours after hearing that - digging into my specific cancer. Some nights I would be on the computer until the sun rose up the next day, chasing the cancer - learning.... What is a Doctor anyways, but someone who went to college four years longer than I did? If they can learn it - so can I. And learn I did. I read medical journals (not easy to read!) and eventually found a couple of surgeons who were at the cutting edge for my kind of rare cancer - doing new things with great success. I made my way to one of those surgeons who was at Johns Hopkins and ultimately he did the surgery that saved my life and today I am cancer-free. I never would have found Dr. Choti without the internet and access to the medical publications he authored. And you know what Doc Choti told me one day? He said to me "I like your story of how you got to Johns Hopkins. Knowledge is Power and you used it to help save yourself".

He's right, you know. Knowledge IS Power.

P.S. Ashley is Junk, Kipling is Aniline.

[AZJoe]

My favorite was when I went to into a store and said I was looking for a leather recliner. The sales person took me straight to a huge leather piece displayed with pride in the center of the recliner display. One of their best sellers, she said.

It had more seams on it than a patchwork quilt.

Bustle back (2 seams on the front of each cushion), rolled arms (2 seams on top of each arm), full-width leg rest with full-width horizontal seam across the center, and 2 vertical seams on each panel above and below the horizontal seam. You keeping count? No? Well that's 18 separate pieces of leather just on faces of the back, arms, and leg rest.

Only the seat cushion and side panels had no seams on their faces. I assume that means the side panel was a matching vinyl. Store price on the thing? Over $1000. We got about 10 feet away when I said "That is not what I am looking for." I was (and still am) no expert on furniture, leather or otherwise, but I knew I didn't want thing, especially not for $1000. Shouldn't there be a discount since it was (apparently) stitched together from samples?

That is funny(or sad) I am not sure which..lol

<laughing> Good stories! A little knowledge is dangerous they say...but this is EXACTLY why this forum exists.

As far as retailers, they always fall back on the ole line "If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bulls_it". Unfortunately, many would rather read the newspaper during down times rather than study the product they sell.

My store started as a handcrafted wood reproduction store. We built copies of 18th century furnishings and I became very well versed in that, because I would drive our truck to all the small shops up in New England and ask a thousand questions while I was there. I'd wear my cabinentmakers out with questions! Since I made all the pickup trips personally, I learned about woods, the tools that built them, the finishing, and even repairs. for nearly 20 years that's all we did. Then the market for this style of furniture fell away and leather upholstery came on very strong. I had to switch into that product to stay in business, and did so with the same fervor and curiosity that I dedicated to the wood product (which we still have!). When these leather suppliers all came in with their wares it made my head spin....I had no idea what this language was they were talking of "Aniline, Pull-Up, Quaalux, Pigmented, LAF or RAF, etc.". It took a while for me to learn what it all meant, and I'm STILL learning. When someone here asks me a question I can't answer, I get on the phone to Hancock & Moore, Leathercraft, Bradington-Young, or Taylor King, and find the answer. The standing joke at H&M is that we should have one of those Sprint 2-way phones that act like walkie-talkies because I call there so many times in a day! This is also why I take tours of the production plants (whey they allow it) and spend time at Market discussing product details. The best compliment I ever got was from the owner of Hancock and Moore who told me "You know our product line well enough to work here".

The internet is a wonderful and magnificent tool. We could not have these exchanges of information without it. Twenty years ago, how did you learn about things like this? You went to stores and tried to find an honest salesperson is how - or read Consumer Reports. That was about it. Now with the 'net, there is SO much information out there you can be educated in a matter of hours on a topic, all without leaving home.

I will go so far as to say that the internet actually saved my life. Five and a half years ago I was declared terminal with Stage IV cancer. My area doctors just shook their head, held my hand and said "you should get your affairs in order". I heard that from three different physicians,. who all said I was going to die in a few months. My personality is such that I'm a scrapper - I got on the internet for hours and hours after hearing that - digging into my specific cancer. Some nights I would be on the computer until the sun rose up the next day, chasing the cancer - learning.... What is a Doctor anyways, but someone who went to college four years longer than I did? If they can learn it - so can I. And learn I did. I read medical journals (not easy to read!) and eventually found a couple of surgeons who were at the cutting edge for my kind of cancer - doing new things with great success. I made my way to one of those surgeons who was at Johns Hopkins and ultimately he did the surgery that saved my life and today I am cancer-free. I never would have found Dr. Choti without the internet and access to the medical publications he authored. And you know what Doc Choti told me one day? He said to me "I like your story of how you got to Johns Hopkins. Knowledge is Power and you used it to help save yourself".

He's right, you know. Knowledge IS Power.

P.S. Ashley is Junk, Kipling is Aniline.

That is a great story. I am glad to hear you pulled through all of that, that is truly inspiring. I will say, cancer is one of my biggest fears in life. I frequently think about myself, or wife getting it, and it scares the hell out of me. Her older brother died about 2 years ago, after battling cancer for a long time. 40 years old, 4 kids(7,10,14,16). It is really a heart breaking process, and a roller coaster of emotions.

I can't even fathom how people survived without the internet, cell phones, etc. haha I will be out and about, want to eat, go on my phone find a new place, etc. I use it constantly. I can't even imagine having to use a map, especially for around town voyages.

The internet has made it so a business has to pride themselves on their quality of work, and service again. With reviews so readily available, the bad ones sink to the bottom, while the good ones flourish. In the past you had to take a gamble, and some times learn a lesson the hard way, now if you are an informed consumer, you can learn off of other peoples mistakes, and wasted $.

I am a research-a-holic. Every thing I do, I research the hell out of. If I am going to buy a toaster, it is going to be the best toaster, I can buy. My wife thinks I have a problem(which i do), but wont hesitate to ask me to research something for her friends.

I genuinely think you have a great thing going here. Both the forum, and your business. You provide a quality of service that is IMO unmatched.

P.S. Ashley is Junk, Kipling is Aniline.

I don't know much, but I knew that.

Interestingly enough he chose Garfield fawn, in fact, EVERY single person I showed the 10+ samples to picked Garfield fawn as #1.

[Monique]

It's great to have someone tell us the truth! The only "bull" you're going to get from My Furniture Forum is the hide on your sofa!

[juliepooch]

Interestingly enough he chose Garfield fawn, in fact, EVERY single person I showed the 10+ samples to picked Garfield fawn as #1.

What did the married people choose?

[AZJoe]

What did the married people choose?

Hah..I guess I could have worded that better.

[juliepooch]

AZJoe, I'm enjoying your various threads immensely. I just couldn't pass up the 'single person' comment. My mom, born in 1908, was an old-fashioned English teacher and was constantly after us to make sure we said what we meant. She also LOVED grammar and spelling. Where are these type of teachers now?

I just had to add this story. When my son was almost 4 years old, I told him to go to his room and pick up "every single" toy. He came back to me a few minutes later and said he was finished. Surprised, I asked, "Did you pick up every single toy?” He said, "Yes." I then asked if he would show me. We went to his room and sure enough, he had indeed picked up every "single" toy. Any toy that had multiple pieces, such as puzzles, tinker toys, Lincoln logs, Fisher Price, etc. were scattered all over the floor!! Boy did that teach me a lesson--I guess I forgot what my mom said.

Back to your original topic. I'd like to think I'm not a snob and I don't brag. However, I will happily share information if asked. I don't care that much what others may think because we're the ones that live with and enjoy our 8 pieces of H&M leather furniture that we began purchasing in 1981. Too bad we didn't know about Duane then or he would have gotten all our business over the years!!

[drcollie]

That is a great story. I am glad to hear you pulled through all of that, that is truly inspiring. I will say, cancer is one of my biggest fears in life. I frequently think about myself, or wife getting it, and it scares the hell out of me. Her older brother died about 2 years ago, after battling cancer for a long time. 40 years old, 4 kids(7,10,14,16). It is really a heart breaking process, and a roller coaster of emotions.

Well, there is nothing you can do about it. If its going to hit you - it is, just like a car accident. No sense worrying about it. The only pro-active thing you can do it to donate to cancer research whenever you can. As my surgeon at Hopkins told me: "Duane, we know how to cure cancer in theory, but we need the funding to establish the procedures and protocols." Even since he told me that, I always raise and contribute money for cancer research and have managed to donate around $ 15,000 in the past five years. Federal assistance for Cancer Research was cut way back during the Bush Administration and its largely private donations that have funded it since the 90's.

[AZJoe]

AZJoe, I'm enjoying your various threads immensely. I just couldn't pass up the 'single person' comment. My mom, born in 1908, was an old-fashioned English teacher and was constantly after us to make sure we said what we meant. She also LOVED grammar and spelling. Where are these type teachers now?

Well thanks. I am just trying to be active on the forum. I am a member of MANY online forums, and the dynamic here is a bit different, since I am sure a large percentage of people just pop in, research, buy, then vanish. "Most" forums, are enthusiast driven, and a large majority tend to stick around for many years.

I think it is a great concept, and is executed perfectly. It is an amazing resource for people to come, gather information, and get prompt answers right from the man in charge.

As for grammar is not an area I excel in, although I do "alright"..lol I was schooled by the "teachers of today" to some degree. I am good with numbers though, so it is a trade off..lol

I just had to add this story. When my son was almost 4 years old, I told him to go to his room and pick up "every single" toy. He came back to me a few minutes later and said he was finished. Surprised, I asked, "Did you pick up every single toy?” He said, "Yes." I then asked if he would show me. We went to his room and sure enough, he had indeed picked up every "single" toy. Any toy that had multiple pieces, such as puzzles, tinker toys, Lincoln logs, Fisher Price, etc. were scattered all over the floor!! Boy did that teach me a lesson--I guess I forgot what my mom said.

That is a cute story.

Back to your original topic. I'd like to think I'm not a snob and I don't brag. However, I will happily share information if asked. I don't care that much what others may think because we're the ones that live with and enjoy our 8 pieces of H&M leather furniture that we began purchasing in 1981. Too bad we didn't know about Duane then or he would have gotten all our business over the years!!

My main issue is that price is not always indicative of quality. You go to these stores, and you see absurdly priced furniture, straight off the boat from China, that is of extremely poor quality. If one just did their due diligence, they would see something like an BY, or H&M piece, might actually be within their reach. I was actually a bit taken back once I saw how close H&M prices could be to LaZboy(or the like) when dealing with the right retailer. I mean I could have literally been sitting in a Gr1 H&M Sundance or Journey sectional, for a similar price, or a City for less then I would have paid for a LaZboy sectional, had I not dug a little deeper.

Nothing quite gets to me more then someone spending their hard earned money on junk, when a high quality alternative could have been purchased had they ran across someone like Duane, or made an informed decision.

If one can only afford something inexpensive, then I totally understand they have no choice but to settle a bit in the way of quality, but the goal should always be maximizing your dollar, IMO.

Well, there is nothing you can do about it. If its going to hit you - it is, just like a car accident. No sense worrying about it. The only pro-active thing you can do it to donate to cancer research whenever you can. As my surgeon at Hopkins told me: "Duane, we know how to cure cancer in theory, but we need the funding to establish the procedures and protocols." Even since he told me that, I always raise and contribute money for cancer research and have managed to donate around $ 15,000 in the past five years. Federal assistance for Cancer Research was cut way back during the Bush Administration and its largely private donations that have funded it since the 90's.

Absolutely. I am all for donating whenever possible.