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Thread: H&M Antelope leather opinion needed

  1. #1
    Martha Guest

    Question H&M Antelope leather opinion needed

    Has anyone seen a H&M piece in the Antelope Nugget leather? I appears to be a dark brown, but looks a little ashy/grayed-down in some light. I am terrified that a whole chair will not look like a rich brown but morph into an odd color that I could not predict from a small sample. This protected leather is so soft that I am seriously considering it but I'm stressing over the color. Please help if you have seen an actual furniture piece in this color. Thanks.
    Last edited by Martha; 11-25-2008 at 11:11 AM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martha View Post
    Has anyone seen a H&M piece in the Antelope Nugget leather? I appears to be a dark brown, but looks a little ashy/grayed-down in some light. I am terrified that a whole chair will not look like a rich brown but morph into an odd color that I could not predict from a small sample. This protected leather is so soft that I am seriously considering it but I'm stressing over the color. Please help if you have seen an actual furniture piece in this color. Thanks.
    Hi Martha,

    It won't really matter if someone has seen it or photographed it, as Antelope is one of those leathers that has a high color variance from one batch to another. In other words, no two batches are alike.

    Go ahead and place your order with the dealer of your choice, and then request a Cutting for Approval as part of you order. This will slow your production time by 3 to 4 weeks, but you will get an actual decent sized sample of the exact hide going to be used in on the piece you ordered. Once you get it, you can say YES or NO to the production as you see fit. If you say YES, then your dealer will fax H&M an authorization to schedule production and you're on your way. If you say NO, then you're back to square one and looking for another leather. There is almost never a second batch of hides to send a sample from, you would have to wait about 4 months to resample that leather and colorway

    Remember too, that many leather appear different on a piece than on a swatch. Being pulled, nailed, sewn, stapled and all that changes tightness of the hide and there can be high/low color variations from that.

    My advice is to always look at a swatch from seven to ten feet away, not a foot from your nose. Back up from the sample, keep it out of the direct sunlight and see how the color harmonizes in the room.

    Good luck!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
    Martha Guest

    Question follow up leather questions

    Thanks Duane. Although the two Antelope samples I have look smooth and fairly even in color, the description states that it is variegated with "scars and markings evident," which is not at all evident on the samples. Does anyone know in how marked up the Antelope turns out, in general?

    Which, if any of these, are aniline dyed: Antelope, Auburn, Savannah, Document,or Equestrian?

    Thanks for the information. It would be nice to have a good idea of what I am buying as it is a significant amount of money.

    Martha

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martha View Post
    Thanks Duane. Although the two Antelope samples I have look smooth and fairly even in color, the description states that it is variegated with "scars and markings evident," which is not at all evident on the samples. Does anyone know in how marked up the Antelope turns out, in general?

    This gets into the basic discussion of differences between Finished Leather (also known as Pigmented, or Semi-Aniline) and then pure Anilines. I know I have the topic covered in-depth here on the forum but in a nutshell here's the differences:

    Finished: All perfections and grain patterns sanded out. Grain is embossed back in. Hide is then painted (or pigmented if you prefer that term), and topcoated. Very durable, resistant to sun-fading.

    Anilines: Ony 2% of hides worldwide are fine enough to be Anilines. They are not sanded, or corrected. Vat-dipped for color then usually finished with a light teflon top coating. They will show various bug bites, healed scars, fat wrinkles and the like. May absorb oil-based and acid-based stains. Will fade in direct sunlight.

    The Markers/Cutters at the factory will mark all imperfections deemed unsuitable and then trace patterns around them. You will not see branding marks or large scars in a properly marked hide, but you will find dozens of small nuances that shows what occured in the natural life of that particular cow.

    We have a saying in the trade, "If you want perfection in the cover, buy vinyl"


    Which, if any of these, are aniline dyed: Antelope, Auburn, Savannah, Document,or Equestrian?

    Antelope/Auburn/Equestrian are Anilines.
    Savahanah/Document are Finished.


    Thanks for the information. It would be nice to have a good idea of what I am buying as it is a significant amount of money.

    I often compare buying leather to learning to enjoying fine wines, it becomes an acquired taste over time. A new wine drinker will only want a sweet wine that's not complex, or very pricey, like a Rhine or Pink Chabis (Finished Leather). The experienced wine drinker will only want the more expensive and complex varietal wines such as Cabernet Savingnons and Chardonnays (Aniline Leather). You have to purchase what works for your taste, budget and lifestyle, as it will last a long time in the H&M class of goods.

    Martha
    Hope that helps explain it some..see other forum posts for more details on Aniline vs. Finished hides
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  5. #5
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    Martha
    We have an Austin sofa and chair/ottoman in Antelope saddle, mahogany distressed.
    First the leather is a protected analine with good servicability. It really has no real marks (scars, bites, etc.). It looks and feels like a fine leather. The mahogany distress is almost unnoticable, even from a foot or two away and gives a extremely slight darker/richer shadow effect. The leather has a great hand (softness) and has been very durable for the 4 years we have owned it. The chair and ottoman gets 3-4 hours of use everyday and still looks new. From our experience Antelope is a great choice. Another leather we like is Equestrian and we are considering another chair to use with the pieces we have, using a different but complimentary color. As a note last year we tried to purchase a large ottoman to use as a table with the Austin sofa. Duane took our order and requested a sample cutting from the actual hide that would be used. Short story is it did not match well and we canceled the order. Lesson learned about buying leather.

  6. #6
    Martha Guest

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    Thanks again Duane. I know that my "Chardonnay taste" is leading me towards aniline. Do you know of any other leathers that are aniline dyed AND protected, and offer a medium to dark brown other than the Atelope? I have really tried to do my homework but do not have a source for this information. I have been through the handles several times and have not come up with an alternative. Is the dying process for each leather listed somewhere? Also, do you know the source of the Antelope leather (i.e. country of origin)? Thanks again, Martha

  7. #7
    Martha Guest

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    cuse69,
    Thanks for your reply. It is always reassuring to hear from someone who actually owns and has used what I am considering to purchase.(Sort of the Consumer Reports of furniture!). How much sun exposure does your sofa get, and have you noticed any color fading? I have read several times about potential fading with aniline dyes on this forum.
    Martha

  8. #8
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    Martha

    Our sofa is in a room with an adjacent glass door and 2 windows with northwestern exposure. The room receives direct late afternoon sun. We have not noticed any color fade to date. The Antelope saddle is a burgandy/brown/mahogany color and would indeed show fading if it was happening. Again this is but one example. I would listen to Duane's counsel on this since he has many years and many customer experiences to draw upon, and he is really an honest broker when giving advise. Another possibility would be to put UV film on the windows that would contribute the direct sunlight. This would provide additional protection to the leather and the furniture/drapperies/etc. and help out with the cooling load that the air conditioner handles in the warm months.
    Good luck and let us know what you decide.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martha View Post
    Thanks again Duane. I know that my "Chardonnay taste" is leading me towards aniline. Do you know of any other leathers that are aniline dyed AND protected, and offer a medium to dark brown other than the Atelope? I have really tried to do my homework but do not have a source for this information. I have been through the handles several times and have not come up with an alternative. Is the dying process for each leather listed somewhere? Also, do you know the source of the Antelope leather (i.e. country of origin)? Thanks again, Martha
    Virtually every hide from H&M has a light teflon top-coating, so there is some mild level of protection on all leathers, even if marked 'unprotected'. To test any leather from any maker, simply take some water in your hand and 'flick' it onto the hide and see if it beads up. If it does, it has some protective top coating on it.

    The key to durability is the Serviceability rating on the back of every swatch. Serviceability ratings start with a "2" and go to a "4". (there is a "1", but its commercial grade and no H&M leathers have that designator).

    A "2" is resistant to most all spills and stains, and one we refer to as 'wipe and go'. This will repel most anything that is thrown at it. Great for active households and if you have pets on the furniture.

    A "3" is going to be more susceptible to some spills, mainly anything acid-based (like cider vinegar) or oil based (such as Baby Oil, or some suntanning oils). Every hide is a bit different, and its wise to test the samples to see how they react to a given spill if its a concern. Not all "3" rated-hides absorb at the same level.

    A "4" rating is one that is definitely going to absorb spills of the type listed above, and the leather is going to be ruined. Most "4"'s are exotic hides such as Nubuck or Lambskin, and they cannot tolerate oil-based spills.

    Its really about lifestyle and how you intend to use the piece. I routinely buy "3" rated hides for my home, and that includes a busy one with two teenagers. We don't pamper our furniture, but don't abuse it either. We eat our meals in the kitchen or dining room and not upon our leather furniture. We've have no stain issues whatsoever.

    Antelope is the best of all the worlds. It has a "2" Serviceability rating and is still a Full Top Grain Aniline leather from Germany. I'd not hesitate to recommend it as long as its affordable for your budget. It will give you the rich look you want, and the stain/spill resistance of the less expensive hides. I honestly think you don't have to search further.

    I don't have the details of the tanning/dye process for each hide (would probably have to visit the tannery to see it - who wants to send me to Germany on an investigative misson? ), however Aniline leathers are dyed in a vat, rather than having their color applied with a spray gun.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by cuse69 View Post
    The room receives direct late afternoon sun. We have not noticed any color fade to date. The Antelope saddle is a burgandy/brown/mahogany color and would indeed show fading if it was happening. Another possibility would be to put UV film on the windows that would contribute the direct sunlight.
    I have UV film applied to all my windows in my home for that very reason (also saves my oriental rugs). The sun can really do a number on anything with color. Aniline leathers will fade more rapidly than finished hides, but its a gradual process. Even if they do fade, all is not lost, Leathermaster makes a Sun Safe Re-dye kit that is custom blended to your hides (current price is about $ 90 for a dye kit) that does a remarkable job of making faded leathers look new again. Easy to apply with only a common hair-dryer needed.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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