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Thread: H&M, Randall-Allen, BY and Classic Leather

  1. #1
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    Default H&M, Randall-Allen, BY and Classic Leather

    <transferred here from Private Message>


    Hi,

    I've seen you on some other forums and have some questions... We're looking for a new leather sofa - perhaps sectional - still trying to decide. We went to a couple of local stores today and found a number of sets we like. My favorite is a H&M (I have no idea which model - has a button tufted back and nailheads-will visit their site to find an exact model), but it also has the highest pricetag and I'm honestly not sure it's in my budget or wise considering it's for our family room and my last sofa (Natuzzi - Italy) was annihilated. I'm scared at this point. DS thought he was Captain Hook when he was 3 and sliced it (thanks to DH leaving the new German carving knife on the counter - thankfully DS was unscathed) and I think our Standard Poodle may have also caused a tear - she's not allowed on the furniture, but she sometimes gets excited... So, I need bulletproof and I honestly don't want $$$$ considering where it will be... The salesman pointed out a Randall-Allan sectional -was something like $3500 and seemed reasonable... He tried to convince me that it was really HM - I'm not that dumb - I can see and feel the difference. What I'm wondering is what is it really? Based on things I've seen you write in the past, I believe you know this business and that you're honest. I'm also interested in you pricing pieces for us. I then went to another store and looked at some Classic Leather pieces - frankly I thought they were better than the Randall-Allan, but not the level of the HM am I wrong? I also looked at a couple BY and they told me Classic was better - honestly I just don't know... The Classic set was amazing in that it was actually comfortable for me to sit on in any position and comfy for DH as well - he is 6'5" and I am 5'3"... Of course the CL sectionals were around $5K... The salesman in that store said the magic number for most people was $2500 and I didn't miss a beat telling him if he'd sell me the CL sectional for that amount he could deliver it tomorrow! LOL I agree that I'd love to be at that price, BUT I want good quality and I want it to last. I'm not remotely interested in hitting the local Ashley store. So, do you have suggestions? I am also a bit confused on the leather - I know I want treated considering the conditions, but I also thought I wanted thicker hide - it seems to me (from the samples I was given) that the natural hide is thicker... Why? Also, they made a big deal about CL being made from steer hides (less fat) than cow hides. Is there ANY merit to that?? I also received pitches regarding cushions - i.e. down, vs foam vs soy based... I really don't want to fluff cushions. I basically want my couch to look the same in 5 years and there on out. I don't want snags, I want easy maintenance and I want to be able to replace filling if necessary down the road... Am I being reasonable? Is there something that will fit my needs better? I just want a nice piece for my family room that appeals to my aesthetics and will survive my family. Thank you and I apologize for this being SO LONG.

  2. #2
    cp1776 Guest

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    Hi Duane,

    I just wrote to you about H&M, Classic Leather, Randall-Allan, and Bradington Young... I found the name of the H&M set I liked - Sundance in Equestrian Truffle. Could you tell me what this would run in a sectional? I saw it in a level 3 leather, but that was unprotected - I think I'd be better off with a level 1 or 2 protected leather - could you explain the differences? I understand 1 and 2 are protected etc - just not the difference between those two levels. Thanks! Also, I know you prefer H&M, but see you sell BY and Leathercraft as well. What would the price point difference be between the three brands on a similar sofa with similar grade leathers? What about durability? I am on a budget, but also believe cheap is not better in the long-run Also, you mentioned in another post a MD dealer who buys from the NC sales and sometimes has good deals on floor models. Do you know anyone in the Orlando area? I'm not opposed to that if I can find the right piece at the right price. I am on a budget - actually have been watching Craigslist since May, but can't find anything that seems like "it" - most seems to be Ashley or American Signature... I want a piece that will last. Thanks again and yes I know I'm verbose. LOL

  3. #3
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    While it may not be in your budget, a high-quality piece such as H&M should far outlast a Natuzzi, and I'm a big believer in putting durable pieces in high-use environments as they can handle the wear and tear over many years given reasonable care. Shop the Town and Country collection in H&M and you can probably find a sofa in your price range, though perhaps not a sectional.

    Well, there's no leather going to stand up to a knife, that's something you just need to keep away from the furniture as best you can. Usually dogs do not cause a tear, though a determined cat with claws can wreck havoc on leather furniture.

    Randall Allen is owned by H&M and is 100% made in China. It is not marketed as H&M nor should you expect it to perform like it. No where in the Randall Allen literature is it represented to be similar to H&N. I do not carry it in my store, nor do I carry any 100% made in China products as I find them inferior.

    Classic Leather builds a decent product, superior to both Randall-Allen and Bradington Young.

    All leathers are split hides for the most part (though Leathercraft recently introduced a leather that was the full upper and lower hide). How much is split from the upper and lowers is more the style of the hide the tannery wants than anything else. Thinner hides tailor crisper on a piece, that is they can be pulled tighter and conform better to the furniture resulting in a sharper looking piece. When they get thicker, then they do not pull around the corners as well. Its all natural, only the way its finished varies. When you get into the 'rugged' hides such as real Buffalo or Bison, they get to be fairly thick, and even some of the cowhides such as Equestrian from H&M.

    Are they saying all the lady cows are fat?!

    Soy based? That's a new one on me. Never heard of soy based cushions! Most the better cushions on quality leather will be a Dupont Qualex Cushion (which is a petro-chemical product) wrapped with a ticking. They are very durable and H&M will replace them free of charge if you wear them out (to the original owner only). Other companies may or may not replace them free of charge - most will not - ASK because they are about $ 120 per seat in today's prices. Stay away from Down if you want to avoid fluffing

    . The critical elements of leather sofa longevity are:

    * Buy good quality. You get what you pay for.

    * Cleaning. Leather is not maintenance-free. 2x a year at a minimum for daily use items.

    * Keep it out of direct sunlight.

    * Keep the sharp instruments away. Torn leather is difficult and expensive to repair, if it even can be repaired.

    I have all my original leather in my house, which I started buying in 1987 from simply adhering to the guidelines above. None of it needs replacing though my Bradington Young office chair at home is getting a little tired.

    Good luck!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  4. #4
    cp1776 Guest

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    Thank the Lord "Captain Hook" is 7 now and knows better than to touch a knife! LOL Also, the soy based cushions were supposedly the Classic Leather. Thank you for all the great info! Also, for letting me know that H&M will replace the cushions - that's lifetime?? That will be major selling point for my husband (and me). Now I was told everything I saw today that was H&M was down - is that down over the Qualex cushion or is there a choice of cushion? Maybe that's why the sectional I liked was $14K? I'm a bit worried about down, because my experience is that it flattens. I asked this question and was told you just needed to fluff it once a week or so. I'm not lazy, but honestly I don't really want a couch where I HAVE to do that... I honestly also have allergies and down really isn't something I should have. Of course quality, comfort and durability outweighs all that. I will go take a look at the T&C line. I seem to remember seeing a post where you quoted a T&C sectional to someone for around $5K - that would put it in line with the Classic Leather sectionals I saw today. Thanks again for the info!

  5. #5
    cp1776 Guest

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    Oh and you're right on about the cost to repair - I was quoted $800. I just can't see paying $800 to repair a Natuzzi - would rather apply that amount to a better quality piece.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by cp1776 View Post
    Hi Duane,

    I found the name of the H&M set I liked - Sundance in Equestrian Truffle. Could you tell me what this would run in a sectional?

    The Sundance Sectional is gorgeous. I delivered one a few months ago. Its also one of the most expensive due to the fact its H&M's first venture into sculpting both the back and sides so it looks just as good approaching it from behind as from the front. The one we did in a Grade 2 leather (Kipling) came in about $ 9K as I recall.

    I saw it in a level 3 leather, but that was unprotected - I think I'd be better off with a level 1 or 2 protected leather - could you explain the differences?

    Search the leather forum, its well explained in prior posts here on the list.

    Also, I know you prefer H&M, but see you sell BY and Leathercraft as well. What would the price point difference be between the three brands on a similar sofa with similar grade leathers?

    Leathercraft and H&M are parity priced for the most part. Bradington-Young is about 20% less in cost if we were to do comparables.

    What about durability?

    Equal on all from my experience. Think of the Leathecraft as the Mercedes, the Hancock and Moore as the Lexus, and the Bradington-Young as the Pontiac. All are going to get you down the road just fine, and you may get a slight advantage in longevity with the Lexus. However, you won't get the luxury, style, quality of materials or customer support with the Pontiac that you will with the Merc of Lexus.


    Also, you mentioned in another post a MD dealer who buys from the NC sales and sometimes has good deals on floor models. Do you know anyone in the Orlando area?

    Sorry, but Florida dealers tend to be high mark-up. I have a number of customers in the Orlando/Tampa area that I ship to as the local store that deals in better leather goods is considerably more expensive[
    Good luck in your search!
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by cp1776 View Post
    Thank the Lord "Captain Hook" is 7 now and knows better than to touch a knife! LOL Also, the soy based cushions were supposedly the Classic Leather. Thank you for all the great info! Also, for letting me know that H&M will replace the cushions - that's lifetime?? That will be major selling point for my husband (and me). Now I was told everything I saw today that was H&M was down - is that down over the Qualex cushion or is there a choice of cushion? Maybe that's why the sectional I liked was $14K? I'm a bit worried about down, because my experience is that it flattens. I asked this question and was told you just needed to fluff it once a week or so. I'm not lazy, but honestly I don't really want a couch where I HAVE to do that... I honestly also have allergies and down really isn't something I should have. Of course quality, comfort and durability outweighs all that. I will go take a look at the T&C line. I seem to remember seeing a post where you quoted a T&C sectional to someone for around $5K - that would put it in line with the Classic Leather sectionals I saw today. Thanks again for the info!
    Correct. Current warranty policy on H&M is that they will replace the cushion cores to the original purchaser free of charge, lifetime. That can change as the years go by, but for now that has been, and is, the policy. One other thing that is unique to H&M and why I push the brand is that they are the ONLY leather maker I know of that will take your H&M piece back to the factory - no matter how old it is - and repair it for only the cost of materials used. Jimmy Moore and Jack Glasheen believe in doing that for their customers and its a nice policy that they actually were inspired to implement because they both like Allen Edmunds shoes, and AE does that as well. I had a customer who had a knife slash in the button-tufted seat of his 3-year-old Leathercraft and the local upholstery shops won't touch that. I called Leathercraft to see about returning this $ 5,000 sofa for repair and they would not take it back to rework the seat slash that was the customers fault. They will only accept a warranty return. I think that's the day I put most my loyalties into the H&M corner (that customer did order a brand new sofa from me btw).

    Some dealers order in Ultra Down for their H&M floor models. Its an extra cost option and like you say you DO have to fluff it. Jack G likes the Ultra Down, Jimmy M and myself prefer standard cushions.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #8
    cp1776 Guest

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    Leave it to me to pick the most expensive set! LOL Champagne taste... I am going shopping - digging around H&M's site... I'll look at the T&C models. BTW, I saw you mention Kipling was your favorite - do you have an image of it you could post? I tried on their site, but you need to be a dealer... I also appreciate the explanation that all 2s aren't equal - I definitely will be asking where the color I like originated and how it's finished. I want an aniline (not sprayed on)... again durability... I've already started working DH on the H&M... LOL Oh and the Sundance is exquisite - if price wasn't an option I'd be telling you to ship me one. What I LOVED about it was exactly the fact that it was gorgeous from every angle. It's the perfect floater sofa - can be in any angle... Hey, what kind of price could you do on the three seater Sundance sofa in Kipling? That might be an option too.. Thanks!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by cp1776 View Post
    Leave it to me to pick the most expensive set! LOL Champagne taste... I am going shopping - digging around H&M's site... I'll look at the T&C models. BTW, I saw you mention Kipling was your favorite - do you have an image of it you could post? I tried on their site, but you need to be a dealer... I also appreciate the explanation that all 2s aren't equal - I definitely will be asking where the color I like originated and how it's finished. I want an aniline (not sprayed on)... again durability... I've already started working DH on the H&M... LOL Oh and the Sundance is exquisite - if price wasn't an option I'd be telling you to ship me one. What I LOVED about it was exactly the fact that it was gorgeous from every angle. It's the perfect floater sofa - can be in any angle... Hey, what kind of price could you do on the three seater Sundance sofa in Kipling? That might be an option too.. Thanks!
    There are two KIPLING leather pieces from H&M in the PHOTO RESOURCES section under the Leather forum. And yes, I have Kipling in my own home on a # 1044 Sadler Recliner. The Sundance Sofa is going on the Town and Country Program January 1st, 2009 in Berkshire Harness, a Grade 2 hide. I should have pricing up for the new T&C program up on the forum this coming week, as soon as I can get the spreadsheet from H&M. And yes, that's the latest and greatest 'look', to make the pieces not only attractive from the front, but from the back and sides as well. Makes a difference in an open room.

    UPDATE: A quick check on pricing shows the Sundance # 4716 Sofa on the T&C Berkshire Harness leather will price out at $ 3,499 with the 2009 T&C program. To make it in Kipling it would be $ 3,815. Shipping to Florida on 1-sofa about $ 180 via Home Delivery Service.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  10. #10
    kperregaux Guest

    Default Sundance...

    Had the chance to sit in the Sundance yesterday, it truly is the best of both worlds; beautiful and comfortable (if you can handle deep). Wish it's T&C leather wasn't Bershire. Can you tell me the price for the long Sundance 4717 in Kipling? Txs Duane....Kathy

    Hi Kathy,

    I have Berkshire on my wife's H&M Office Chair at home, and while the colors are good it does tend to be a bit 'pebbly' and I don't like it near as much as I like the Kipling I have on my Recliner in the house. Yes, the Sundance is really a 'home run' on the design and comfort, they've got a winner with that one. I'll be ordering one for floor stock as soon as I can clear space to bring one in the store. One of the great things H&M does is hire the best furniture designers in the country, and they really do toil over new product.

    The Sundance # 4716 in Kipling, a Grade 2 hide is $ 3,815 + shipping.





    In Kipling you'll be looking at $

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