Young couple wanting a not-so-bulky sofa

[Youngcouple]

First, I want to thank you for this site. The leather primer stopped us from making a stupid purchase, and we're now wanting to learn MORE! =)

We are a young couple living in a pretty small apartment, looking for a new sofa for a while now. We want something of quality, and that looks good to a mid-twenties couple. Hopefully around $1000-$1500. Would be willing to dish out more if we KNEW we were getting quality.

I would like list of things to look at when selecting a sofa, like the leather primer. So, Im going to ask about what I think is the most important:

Frame: Should be Kiln-dried, and I've been told about lifting one leg to see how much you can lift before the other leg rises above ground. Cool!

Support system: I know 8-way is considered the best. We think it makes the bottom part of the sofa ticker than we would like. Should we then go for zig-zag springs. Also cheaper. Other alternatives?

Cushions: Whats good here? Is down the only way to go? Doesn't that look saggy after a few years?

Other things we should look at?


So, brands:

Quite frankly, H&M and BY does not appeal to us. They seem too.. American.. :P (Big and bulky, probably very sturdy tho) It doesn't have to last us 30 years. 10 would be fine Designs we like the look of are http://www.artefacto.com.br/Default.aspx , http://www.tuilifestyle.com/ , restoration hardware. Clean, modern.

Is this impossible to combine with quality? We've been to Bloomingdales, and the sales reps were shockingly unknowledgeable about furniture. Are there any reasonable, quality design furniture stores in the Florida area?

[drcollie]

$ 1K to $ 1.5K won't buy you a quality, solid wood sofa in leather. You'll have to up your target price (unless buying pre-owned). You will be in a plywood sofa at that price point and that's all you need if you're just looking for a 10 year life span. You won't be in 8-way hand-tied, either. Mostly in that price range you'll be in a webbed sofa, perhaps with a few no sag springs. Cushions will be poly dac foam. The sofa will be OK for 3 to 5 years, then begin failing and be ready for the junkyard in 10.

[Youngcouple]

$ 1K to $ 1.5K won't buy you a quality, solid wood sofa in leather. You'll have to up your target price (unless buying pre-owned). You will be in a plywood sofa at that price point and that's all you need if you're just looking for a 10 year life span. You won't be in 8-way hand-tied, either. Mostly in that price range you'll be in a webbed sofa, perhaps with a few no sag springs. Cushions will be poly dac foam. The sofa will be OK for 3 to 5 years, then begin failing and be ready for the junkyard in 10.

Thank you for your reply!

As before mentioned, we are willing to pay a bit more for quality. Our Ikea couch broke after a 200lbs man sat down in the "weak spot" :P We'd rather avoid that again (although the warranty covered it). Our Ikea couch also looks a lot cheaper than the high end furniture frequently mentioned at this site.

We have been looking at the used market, however, for fabric couches in our area, there's not all that much we like even after 3 months of research...


Im sorry to ask so many more questions, but:
We've seen sofas on sale with what appears to be good semi-alinine leather in the seating area, and bonded on the less wear prone areas. Seems like a good compromise to me. What do you say?

Is a webbed sofa worse than Sinous springs? Almost all sofas we've looked at have Sinous springs (zig zag). Heck, even our $800 Ikea sectional has sinous springs...

Poly dac foam = Polyester Dacron foam? Polyester fabric covered with dacron? What's better than this? What's worse?

What is general advice of things to avoid and look for? Thank you!

[drcollie]

There's no rocket science in sofa-making, as I say quite often. To do it right takes two things: 1) Skilled Labor 2) Quality materials. That's all there is to the secret! And with the cost of both, you wind up with sofas in the $ 2K to $ 4K range if using USA tradesmen to build it. Ever manufacturer knows how to make it right - but they will position themselves in the market place to address a consumer price point. When a maker aims for a price point, he has to cut back on either the labor or the raw materials to get there. Simple as that. There is no $ 1,500 sofa built like the $ 3,000 one. Can't happen and if any one says it can they're blowing smoke up your tailpipe. So, if you accept that truth then the question becomes how much can the maker sacrifice in the build before the piece is substanially compromised? Therein lies the detective work.

You can take out SOME of the high quality features in a sofa and still have a durable, long lasting piece - but you can't take all of them out. If you do, you wind up with an Ikea sofa that breaks in half when someone plops down on it. Hancock & Moore has a build corporate build philosophy that is 'no compromise'. They use the best raw materials, pay their people more than other makers and demand a high quality product from their workforce. Ramp it down a notch to a company like Bradington Young - who is in the market at a lower price point and you will see that while still better made than 90% of the product on the market, it will use a plywood frame rather than the solid maple one of H&M, looped ties rather than true 8-way, less precise tailoring and tolerances, less costly leg installations, and no custom work. That nets a 20 % savings for the maker and is passed onto the consumer in the form of a lower retail price. Will the B-Y last as long as the H&M? Probably....is it as sturdy and well made? No. But its $ 1K less in price.

Then you can get into the question of whats the better value? Pay $ 3K for a sofa that lasts 30 years or pay $ 1,500 for one that lasts 10 years?

Any piece of upholstery is only as good as the frame and support webbing. You need a rigid frame that doesn't flex to support the webbing. If the frame flexs, the webbing will stretch and then when you sit on the sofa - down you go. Whats the best frame? Solid hardwood. But solid hardwood is the most costly. Will plywood do? Yes, but plywood lasts torsional stiffness, so the frame will never be as rigid as solid hardwood. Then you need strong webbing that resists stretching, and the good stuff has steel band reinforcement to work in conjunction with the webbing. Onto that you place your suspension system and then the cushions atop that. Most people think their cushions are shot when they sink down into a sofa - not true - its the webbing that is failing when that happens.

Bonded leather is crap. Its the split of the hide that's reinforced with a polyproplene sheet that is bonded to the weak leather (splits are the bottom of a hide, and lack cellular stength) then painted. Guaranteed to fail over time. However if it lasts as long as the cheap frame then its OK.

Webbed sofas aren't good. The webbing IS the suspension and if you take any piece of cloth and go up and down on it enought times what does it do? It stretches. Once its stretched out, the sofa is done as the user is falling down into it again. Sinuous springs are just OK, and a low cost replacement for 8-ways.

Correct on the cushion core. Poly Dac blend is a good core for leather.

Hope that helps!

[Cdirect]

Young Couple - I can relate to your position, as I am now in my early 30's. My first couch I purchased in my mid 20's was from the Room Store. I did not know anything about furniture or build quality, I just picked out what I thought looked nice and was comfortable. I think I paid $1,400 for the 3 cushion micro fiber couch. It looked great for 3 years and then it just started falling apart. I got so sick of it, I started to do research just like you to ensure I get my money’s worth on my next purchase.
Lesson learned, I changed my mindset and realized just like appliances, furniture is a long term investment. If you can, I strongly suggest you keep saving and bump your budget to the 2K - 3K price range as that will give you an American made quality product. Most furniture today you will find at low to even high end retailers are made in China.
I ended purchasing a Hancock and Moore sofa in the 3K price range and can tell you after owning it for almost one year, it is one of the best investments I have ever made. The couch is as strong as a rock and I have no doubts it will last me 30 years. Don’t get caught in the cycle of buying a 5-10 year couch, because in then end you will be paying more.
Good luck in your search. There are a couple of H&M sofas that do have a modern look, but there niche is traditional/contemporary.

[Youngcouple]

Thank you guys so much for your advice!

I've looked at a lot of the H&M sofas to find modern looks, but I've not found it. Which models are you thinking about?

We went by RH again, and found their Maxwell 7' 8 way hand tied, belgian linen for $2080. It seems like a good buy to me?
http://www.restorationhardware.com/c...yId=cat1537055

We're going to go by a local BY and see what they have.

The only thing is that it felt kind of plasticy, as we've felt other fabric couches to be as well. It's not the fabric itself, its the cushioning (from the dac, I guess?) - Will this go away? There are some couches that DON'T feel like this...

They do have the down upgrade tho, that felt nice, but is pricey (and requires more maintainence)

[drcollie]

I don't understand the 'plasticky' reference. But pretty much things you see on a sofa will not 'go away' down the road. Down cushions don't require more maintenance, they just fill the casing in a little bit more relaxed manner. As to price/value of that piece, if you're happy with it and think its worth that amount - go for it. RH product isn't nearly as trashy as Pottery Barn and Crate N' Barrel, but its a trendy store and you'll never get the best bang for your buck in one of those operations.

[wintersummer]

Youngcouple - we want a more modern/transitional look. We narrowed it down to the H&M Metro Sofa, Lena Sofa, and York. Take a look at those...are they want you are looking for?

Where are you located?