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Thread: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

  1. #1
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    Default Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    I wanted to take a little time and address an issue that is coming to the forefront in the furniture industry. The whole internet thing has really set the industry on its ear, where today its so easy to go into a brick and mortar store to shop styles and samples, then seek lower prices from around the country and have furniture shipped in. This creates problems that may lead to a change in policies that will effectively cut out all internet/mail orders by preventing dealers from drop shipping orders. If all orders have to go to a dealer's store first, then freight costs to long distance customers will double or even triple.

    It's generally thought that internet/mail order dealers cannibalize sales from local brick and mortar stores and to a large degree that's true. I do a substantial amount of long distance sales, but I prefer to EARN them by advice, knowledge and service. For the record, I will never suggest a customer go into a local store to shop, use their samples and then call my store with an order. That is unethical and I would never ask my customers do that. I will always be glad to provide samples free of charge to those that request them.

    If you decide to order long distance instead of buying locally, please keep the following in mind:

    1) You are the customer of the selling dealer, and all issues or problems need be addressed through the selling dealer. Not the manufacturer.

    2) Shipping damages are likely to result from using less expensive delivery companies. "You get what you pay for" applies to that kind of service as well. The top delivery companies (which will be the most expensive) will also be the least likely to damage your new pieces. And if you get damages, its between you and the selling dealer in conjunction with the shipper, not the manufacturer.

    3) When you go into your local store and ask them to meet the lower price from an internet/mail order seller, that inflames the situation and angry phone calls result. Don't do that.

    Now, if you are like most people you will read the above and say "Its my money, I'll do what I want and call whom I want to call". I understand that. However, I also understand that when consumers decide to write their own rules and make angry calls to the manufacturers, its very much noted and the end result is that many of these name brand companies are looking to shut down all internet and mail order sales because of it. That applies equally to dealers calling in angry because another dealer across the country is beating their prices.

    How do they intend solve the problem? By shipping only to the brick and mortar store and eliminate all drop ships. I have reason to believe this is being actively discussed among several large companies. If these new policies go into force, then the consumer will lose out in the end, as you will have far fewer choices from who to buy from. Double or triple the freight charges will negate any savings you might have realized.

    So this post is basically a public service post! if you place a value on having choices, read the (3) points above and act accordingly. Remember that YOU are the customer of the dealer you chose to buy from. The dealer is the customer of the manufacturer.

    It concerns me greatly that we are about to see changes come in these regards and that will hugely effect the current business model. While I am not so naive as to think that making this post will change things, perhaps if enough people read it and actually heed it - some of the heat and pressure manufacturers are getting may subside in acting on shutting down internet and mail order sales of their product.
    Last edited by drcollie; 12-11-2012 at 12:32 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  2. #2
    Matthew Guest

    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    Quote Originally Posted by drcollie View Post
    How to they solve the problem? Ship only to the brick and mortar store and eliminate all drop ships. I have reason to believe this is being actively discussed among several large companies. If these new policies go into force, then the consumer will lose out in the end, as you will have far fewer choices from who to buy from. Double or triple the freight charges will negate any savings you might have realized.
    The furniture industry has always seemed to me to be living in the past and very slow to adopt to the new reality of commerce, and this would just be more evidence of that.

    All things being equal, I'd prefer to buy locally (especially when it comes to furniture). That said, many furniture stores here charge as much as 3-4 times as much as their counterparts out of state. I understand that the cost of running a brick and mortar store will vary depending on the location, but the markups here are insane. That's what drives people to shop online. Your points are good ones, but they, like the potential actions by the manufacturers, seem to just be more evidence of an industry that is either unwilling to or unable to adopt to a changing landscape.

  3. #3
    MADEINUSA Guest

    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    I am totally shocked that the companies are even considering halting mail order or internet orders.Just like the previous member ,even I like/prefer to buy locally,when I was recently in the market shopping for a H and M sofa,I visited he local dealer,the dealer had just 1 ,just 1 piece of H and M sofa,that's been sitting there for 1 year and is on sale,no new shipments were expected for the next 4 months,they had ton of leather swatches but unable to explain to me the different leather grades and options.And,their prices 2-3 times what I found out through internet stores.,infact even compared to a brick and mortar store in NC.I had to make 3 trips just to speak to the right person with minimal knowledge of H&M pieces,most of the sales people were novices just out off college and call themselves interior designers.Now ,someone at H&M and every other high end manufacturer tell me ,why they would want to move their business from the experts on some of the mail order/internet stores into the hands of know nothing/know something recent college grads.That's never a good business model to sell high end furniture where in addition to the quality of the pieces,customer service and knowledge of the products sold counts immensely.My two cents(rant).thanks.

  4. #4
    Judyg951 Guest

    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    All the better furniture stores in my area went out of business. No one out here buys furniture anywhere except places like Ashley or Living Spaces. I won't buy such poor quality for my home.

    I looked and priced furniture in the general area. I had to go out to a more affluent area. The stores are a bit snooty, but even so no one had the knowledge that Duane has and the markups out here in Ca are crazy high. The world has changed, people in the know are trying to get the best and the most for their money.

    If I could have bought locally and paid a reasonable amount I would have, but when the local stores charge a 4x markup even on sale, well that would just be stupid. I just can't afford to throw away my hard earned money.

    I didn't use the local stores to shop and then buy from Duane as I never even saw the pieces I ordered in a store. The only thing I did get from the local guy's was seeing the quality of H&M pieces. For us this was almost a year long process. I was not aware of H&M until I found this forum.

    Oh and I have never told anyone in a B&M store that I ordered my furniture from a dealer on the other side of the country.

    I hope that companies don't halt the internet/mail order business. They may just find themselves with much less orders coming in.


    As I posted about my experience with the Keeping Room Duane made ordering long distance very easy for us. I spoke with him a few times and he was and is very easy to talk to I depended on his experience and expertise and advice and it was much appreciated. I love my new furniture and am very glad that I ordered it from Duane, and quite frankly I would not have been able to afford it had I tried to buy locally.
    Last edited by Judyg951; 12-11-2012 at 02:00 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    I agree the internet is here to stay, and in fact it will become much more of a force in consumer buying, not less. I know myself - I do most my own personal shopping at night on the computer and am a big Amazon Prime customer. Why do I want to get in the car and go to the drugstore for contact lens solution and then to a hardware store for a replacement garage door opener when I can make three clicks of a mouse and have it show up at my door? Its not even about the cost savings, its about the convenience.

    I agree the furniture industry is old school, and behind the times in many ways. Most communication is still done by fax, for example. We are just beginning to see software that lets dealers check order status with the makers, something the car industry had 20 years ago. They will have to come kicking and complaining into the 21st century and embrace the technology, not shun it.

    Price shopping is inevitable, and consumers have a right to do that - everyone knows that. You buy from whom you are comfortable doing business with. However, the view is that virtually all internet / mail order sales are 'stolen' from a brick and mortar dealer local to a customer, and that consumer is using the local B&M store to make selections, gain knowledge, and then goes price shopping when they have their picks. Doing business both as a B&M store and an Internet retailer, I know how it is to be on both sides of it. There is nothing that makes me more upset than to spend four or five hours sometimes over several days with a couple and look at their room layouts, make suggestions, explain for hours on end about things and then they write down their selections and do everything but order ..... then they go price shopping. I will often get a call back in a few hours and they will say " Store X just beat your price by $ xxxx, if you will match their price we will buy from you - and you have to eat the sales tax as well". Know what I do? I decline the sale. First of all, I can't 'eat' the sales tax, that's illegal. The other dealer is out-of-state and is not required to collect it - but I have to pay it. Secondly, I get offended as I have put hours and hours of time into helping them with their selections and I'm thrown under the bus as if that didn't matter. So I know how the other dealers become furious when their customers come into their stores and present that to them - and their response is to call the manufacturer and rage about that lower-selling dealer. The B&M store owners will demand the Manufacturer control these discounters or else they won't have floor model presence on their showroom floors! It happens every day.

    Secondly, the Internet Discounters are acutely aware that the reason they are getting many of the sales is because of price and price alone. So naturally, the consumer wants the cheapest shipping rates, too. And believe me, there are plenty of smaller delivery operations (think: two guys and a truck) that will delivery for far less than the pros at Sun Delivery - whom I use exclusively because they do it right. The trouble is, what these cheaper delivery companies handle the most is inexpensive made-in-China furniture, where a sofa is $ 399 and a chair $ 149. They will treat your $ 6,000 high-end leather sofa in the same manner as the $ 400 one. When there are small damages to the pieces such as rub marks / chips / tears and cuts the cheapo delivery company is long gone and not taking calls on it and the Internet Discounter says "Its not my problem - contact the delivery company." Angry consumers then call the manufacturer and demand someone fix their new $ 6K sofa.

    Finally, try to get service from a deep discounter if an issue arises. It's not there and they duck/ignore calls. The consumer them calls the manufacturer to complain and that adds onto the pile yet once again.

    So, the manufacturer gets enough of these calls from upset end use customers and agitated Brick and Mortar store owners, they look to shut down the flow of such things. The easy solution? Kill off the internet sellers. How do you do that? Don't let them drop ship from the loading dock, all product has to go to their stores direct. And that will be highly effective as 1) It eliminates the damage calls entirely. If the dealer is accepting delivery, then there is no 3rd party white glove service. 2) Internet sellers would have to buy or lease a warehouse to stage the furniture, adding to overhead. A 2,500 s.f staging warehouse in my part of the world would cost $ 40,000 a year to lease, for example. That has to be covered in the price charged for goods. 3) There would be freight costs to that warehouse, and then outbound again to a retail end buyer, effectively doubling to tripling freight charges and giving the advantage back to the B&M store.

    I am alarmed by what I hear as I have many - MANY customers across the country that I've not 'stolen' from their local B&M store, but have honest and viable working relationships with that are cultivated through help, assistance and trust. Some of my customers are not within a day's drive of a local B&M dealer in the line and are only buying on-line due to their remote locations of where they live. It will cost them a lot more for their pieces if drop-ships are not allowed.

    How can you as a consumer help? Well, don't add fuel to the fire. AVOID calling the Manufacturers with complaints and issues - work only through your selling dealer. AVOID agitating your local brick and mortar dealer by asking them to match prices to an internet seller. AVOID buying from the cheapest guy if you expect any level of service after the sale. Shop smart and check reputations.

    I'm not quite sure if the horse is out of the barn on this or not....but there's enough static on this topic making the rounds in the trade that I've very concerned about it.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  6. #6
    hglaber Guest

    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    The problem is, they'll finally decide to kill the drop ship/internet sales just as the meaty part of the high-end furniture demographic shifts from a population with limited-to-negligible internet big-ticket purchasing habits to the Amazon generation(s) who negotiate the purchase of everything from their Prius to their pizzas with their smartphone and don't give a cr@p where the business on the other end of that web page is located. Others will jump in to fill that demand and the old-schoolers will have a heck of a time turning their lumbering business models around, let alone finding an open market niche in which to park them, just like KODAK.

    Should be interesting, although I suppose that depends largely on from what point of view you watch it.

  7. #7
    LazyBoy Guest

    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    Quote Originally Posted by hglaber View Post
    The problem is, they'll finally decide to kill the drop ship/internet sales just as the meaty part of the high-end furniture demographic shifts from a population with limited-to-negligible internet big-ticket purchasing habits to the Amazon generation(s) who negotiate the purchase of everything from their Prius to their pizzas with their smartphone and don't give a cr@p where the business on the other end of that web page is located. Others will jump in to fill that demand and the old-schoolers will have a heck of a time turning their lumbering business models around, let alone finding an open market niche in which to park them, just like KODAK.

    Should be interesting, although I suppose that depends largely on from what point of view you watch it.
    Dead on the money! More to the point, they might find themselves moving to direct to customer Internet sales in a last ditch effort to stay alive as China and other emerging markets continue to flood the markets and gradually up the value chain with improved quality and lower prices. The new money generation does not care about the buying habits of previous generations and "we" are a quite literally dying breed. If this were my business the challenges I would make to my dealer network would be based on their customer satisfaction ratings, not on what method they select to transact sales by.

  8. #8
    MichaelB Guest

    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    I always choose made in America over made in China, which unfortunately is getting more and more difficult to do. So much furniture these days is crap, made overseas, and it's just not worth buying. But that, unfortunately, is what most of the stores seem to carry.

    I try not to do what is being described in this thread - shopping locally and then buying (cheaper) via the Internet. If everyone continues to do this, then soon we will have no local stores to try stuff out and see what it looks like. Unfortunately, too many Wal-Mart shoppers are concerned only about price, not about the source or the impact on the long-term success of our country and businesses.

    However, if I can't find what I want in a store near me, or if the store does not have the knowledge to proper market the product to me, or perhaps the owners are greedy and I don't feel that the markup is fair, then yes, I want that option and that ability to buy it from a distant store, over the phone or over the Internet. If I can't buy brand "A" from anyone except my local dealer and I don't like them (for whatever reason) then I'm going to buy brand "B".

    Fortunately I live in NC, so if I need to buy furniture and can take the time to do it, I'll drive to High Point or Hickory and find what I need, order it, and I'm probably paying half of what most people do. But when I want to stay local and find something, I've found that the prices are too high and the quality is too low. So what are my options? Drive for 5 hours, or get on the Internet?

    Michael

  9. #9
    t44tq Guest

    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    Sorry to resurrect a thread from a month ago, but I'd like to hear some people's opinions on shopping the local stores.

    Thank you, Duane, for the forum and all of your knowledge.

    I received three quotes on a sofa locally- the exact same sofa, same finish and everything- the spread was $1600. Three dealers local to me sell the same product and there are a few more that I didn't contact. When I got that large of a disparity in price, I went with the cheapest dealer- maybe it's wrong to do that? I couldn't see how it made sense to pay more- I'm supporting a local B&M store, just one that was a lot more aggressive on price than the other two and apparently, judging from the reaction of the other two dealers, he does this to them all the time.

    I can't judge on after-sale service, yet.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Going to your local dealer then ordering long distance

    Like I've always said there is a WIDE spread in pricing among dealers. I'd go with the least costly one locally as well as long as there are not several scathing reviews on service after the sale.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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