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Thread: Seeking Advice

  1. #1
    Ci2Eye Guest

    Default Seeking Advice

    Back in May, I ordered a small Hickory White side table from a pretty well known furniture store that has an online presence.

    I selected the table based on photographs shown on the Hickory White website. In early July, the table was delivered. It had a dent in the table top that was about 1-1/2 inches wide by 5 inches in length so I refused acceptance of the table. Since that time the store indicates that they've had several conversations with Hickory White and they refuse to correct the problem and call it distressing. However, the picture of the table on their website shows a perfectly smooth table top with no dents at all. Their description of the product makes no reference to the item being distressed in any way and certainly not heavily distressed to include a sizable dent.

    The store has agreed to set up a call for me with Hickory White but has advised me to not expect them to change their position. The table is a pedestal style so I would like for them to replace the top and given that it was about three to four times more expensive than similar products and not as depicted in their photographs, I think that is a reasonable expectation. The table was made in the United States so such a repair should be possible.

    Anybody have any thoughts or advice for how I should approach the conversation with the Hickory White representative?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    Alexandria VA
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    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    it all depends on the finish ordered, you would want to look at similar products in the same category/finish to see if they are distressed. Most likely that will mean a hunting trip on your part to dealers in your area to check one out in person. If it turns out the pieces that come in that collection and indeed distressed then you may not have much of an argument for them and at best may get a store credit to order something different. "Distressing" is not an exact science, and a very popular way for them to put it in at the workshops is to simply take a set of keys on a ring, tie a rope to the ring and then beat on the furniture with the keys by swinging them around on that rope.

    Why is the dealer having you talk to the factory? That's their job - to act on your behalf and be the go-between. You as the end user customer have virtually no pull with Hickory White, but the selling dealer does if they choose to act on your behalf. And its the selling dealer holding your money, not the factory. Personally I would advise against you speaking direct to H.W. as that just adds another layer of complexity to the issues and gives the dealer the opportunity to say "We put you in contact with the maker, you heard what they said, that's all we can do". If you're not happy with your purchase, its the selling dealer that can do something for you if they choose to do so, not H.W. Remember that in the furniture industry you are the customer of the dealer, the dealer is the custome of Hickory White. This may go counter to all the thinking you have to go 'right to the top', but H.W. only cares about keeping the dealer happy - and the dealer should care about keeping you happy. That's how the system works.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  3. #3
    Ci2Eye Guest

    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    I am potentially talking to the factory because the dealer told me Hickory White is not willing to re-do anything and that it was solely Hickory White's decision and there was nothing further the dealer could do to change their position. They say they have "gone back and fourth" with them several times. I asked if I could talk to them. My contention is that the pictures on their website of the product I purchased do not have dented tops so how was I to know that this would be present and considered normal.

    It isn't a small ding that would have been made by keys on a rope or any small object. I would accept that because I know that is very common. In fact, I saw the dent from inside my house when the guy first pulled it off the truck and I would have been 50 feet away.

    The dealer isn't willing to give me a store credit and take the piece back in any way (that would be great) but they have offered to have someone try and fix it but there is no way of knowing how that will turn out. Unless I can persuade Hickory White, my options right now are to take it as is or have the dealer try and fix it and take my chances with how that might turn out.

  4. #4
    MRSSQRDAWAY Guest

    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    MY MISTAKE. I ordered a small table called THE BIRDCAGE TABLE, a antique reproduction. Talk about dents! It was truely a reproduction. The entire top was scraped, dented gouged, and oh so old looking... I hated it. I did not know the furniture maker would go to that extreme to make it look old. But after using it for a while, I find it fits right in.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    The dealer controls the tempo of the sale and all decision-making. You know that I'm sure because the Hancock and Moore chair you ordered from me was re-worked after you had it delivered to you and it wasn't to your satisfaction. H&M didn't make that call to re-work it, I did! And it cost me about $ 600 out of pocket but I was O.K. with that. End result, the chair was done to your satisfaction and that's the right way to run a business.

    Your selling dealer has the choice to replace the table for you. They can take the one you have and put it into inventory if H/W won't replace it and simply order another one and notate 'no distressing' on the purchase order. Instead they appear to have turned this into a 3-ring circus to avoid simply replacing the table. They sound to be fairly typical of many mail-order / on-line sellers who resist any kind of customer service after the sale, that happens a lot in this industry.

    I would definitely NOT allow a 'repairman' to come out because all he is going to do is fill the top with about 10 coats of heavy-bodied sanding sealer or use a heat fill-stick and those are not good for top surfaces, the sanding sealer will close all the pores up on the table as well as make the top fragile to scratches and the fill stick will be very obvious. If this table top is screwed on (flip it over and take a look) rather than mortised on, it would be a very simple matter for H/W to UPS you a new top and you simply screw it on and dispose of the old one or send it back to them. That's a good compromise and it doesn't cost much to ship a table top unless its a full-size dining table.

    As a consumer, you always have the nuclear strike option as well, and that's a chargeback on your credit card for pieces that are not delivered as ordered. That's a tool of last resort, however and depends on the sales contract language you signed prior at time of order.

    Let's see a photo of the table in question?
    Last edited by drcollie; 09-11-2013 at 01:18 PM.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  6. #6
    Ci2Eye Guest

    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    Since I refused the table, I don't have it to know whether the top screws on or not. I would imagine that it does. I also do not have any photographs of the table. The delivery company took the photos once it got back to their warehouse, sent them to Hickory White and the selling dealer. The delivery company initially called me back and said Hickory White had agreed to remake the table and they would get the replacement back to me as soon as possible. They said at that time the indention was too large to repair and it needed to be re-made. The dealer later called to say they were misinformed and Hickory White had not agreed to a replacement.

    This has been going on since early July and I paid for the table in June so I am not sure I have any chargeback option at this point. I understand that the dealer can't take everything back that a customer doesn't like but I don't think having someone repair it is fair and I think Hickory White has some responsibility for depicting the product with a smooth top but then apparently insisting what I received is normal rather than how it is pictured.

    I asked about having a new top made and the dealer said that wouldn't solve anything because it would be made the same and likely also be dented but that's what I plan to ask the manufacturer about.

    My chair that I got from The Keeping Room was remade beautifully and I very much appreciate the lengths you went to in order to resolve that situation. I hope this situation can be resolved as well.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    Oh! Well, if you don't have the table - I must have missed that - then call them and tell them they have 48 hours to either order a replacement or you will do a chargeback and that's the end of it. Remind them they will have a $ 35 chargeback fee right off the bat and you will most likely prevail in a dispute such as that, because it wasn't shipping damage and the maker will not warranty it.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

  8. #8
    Ci2Eye Guest

    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    But I think my time is up for that. The initial deposit was charged to me in late May. The remaining balance was charged to me around the first of July. I only saw the table for maybe five minutes in July. Since then it's been sitting in the warehouse of the delivery company I believe.

    After they told me the delivery company was wrong and there was no replacement on order, every time I've called the store about it they've said they were working on it until about three ago when they said they'd "gone back and fourth several times" with Hickory White and they weren't willing to do anything. That's when I was told I had only two options; accept it as is or they can attempt to repair it before shipping it back to me.

    I'll call my credit card company and find out if I have any options and I agree with you that I should be dealing with the store rather than Hickory White. It's just that they said HW was refusing to do anything, insisting the table is fine and as a result the store was out of options so I thought I should try talking to HW.

  9. #9
    Ci2Eye Guest

    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    But I think my time is up for that. The initial deposit was charged to me in late May. The remaining balance was charged to me around the first of July. I only saw the table for maybe five minutes in July. Since then it's been sitting in the warehouse of the delivery company I believe.

    After they told me the delivery company was wrong and there was no replacement on order, every time I've called the store about it they've said they were working on it until about three ago when they said they'd "gone back and fourth several times" with Hickory White and they weren't willing to do anything. That's when I was told I had only two options; accept it as is or they can attempt to repair it before shipping it back to me.

    I'll call my credit card company and find out if I have any options and I agree with you that I should be dealing with the store rather than Hickory White. It's just that they said HW was refusing to do anything, insisting the table is fine and as a result the store was out of options so I thought I should try talking to HW.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Seeking Advice

    You have at least a year to dispute with most card companies. Make sure you do TWO chargebacks if you go this route, the deposit and the balance. Give them a final chance to correct it first, however. If they still stand firm, then you have nothing to lose by doing a chargeback on it.

    I get a couple of chargebacks every year myself. Mostly some form of buyer's remorse kind of thing (I have some whopper stories on these*) and they're a real pain to have to deal with. I will go out of my way to avoid that as a merchant if at all possible...

    * I'll give you one: Customer in Arizona orders a H&M sofa and loveseat in a GR 4 leather. Asks for it to be expedited. We build it very quickly as he demands it by a certain date, and it goes to the delivery company who calls him to deliver. When he finds out the delivery company won't take his old sofa and loveseat to the curb for disposal, he gets very upset on the phone and tells me he won't take the new ones and cancels the order, demanding a refund. I offer to pay for two laborers in Arizona to move the old pieces for him in order to avoid an issue, but he rejects that and does a chargeback for the entire order ( $ 9,000). I cannot reason with him, and then he further claims there will be bugs in his new furniture because the truck is not sealed. That was a new one - sealed trucks. I'm not sure that even NASA uses sealed trucks for space stuff....so he's a bit nutty, right? Best of all - and you can't make this up - he's a practicing Psychiatrist in Scottsdale.
    Duane Collie
    Straight answers from thirty-six years in the business.
    My Private Messages are Disabled - Please ask questions here in the forum.

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