B&Y sofa questions

[Studdabaker]

Hello Duane and others,

We are trying to decide between the Bates, Dietrich, and Tappan sofa styles. You had mentioned in a previous post that the Tappan was a good "sitting" couch. I dislike sofas that have a relaxed pitch which forces you to lean back too far but I am hesitant with the Tappan because it is only 83" and I desire a bigger foot print.

1) Bates - Is that a good "sitting" sofa? Are the back pillows tall enough to provide head support if I want to lean back?

2) Dietrich - I cannot tell from the pictures if the top of the sofa is flat or does it curve upwards? Are all three of the back pillows square in shape or do two curve upwards?

Which one of the three would you choose based upon build quality?
What customization does B&Y allow without up charges?
Thank you!

[drcollie]

Ahh....'tis a sticky wicket recommending comfort and pitch on seats when one doesn't have one in the store to try out. I can't do that sort of thing from memory (few can, and those that say they can are likely to sell you a bridge), sorry - I'm not comfortable doing that and having you base your order on that sort of thing.

Build is identical on all B-Y sofas. They allow very little to no customization on their pieces, they are not a scratch, in-house builder like Hancock & Moore or McKinley leather, so frame alterations are definite no. You can leave nail trim off some pieces, add pillows, change cores, and sometimes do a leg swap but not much beyond that.

[Ci2Eye]

Hello Duane and others,

We are trying to decide between the Bates, Dietrich, and Tappan sofa styles. You had mentioned in a previous post that the Tappan was a good "sitting" couch. I dislike sofas that have a relaxed pitch which forces you to lean back too far but I am hesitant with the Tappan because it is only 83" and I desire a bigger foot print.

1) Bates - Is that a good "sitting" sofa? Are the back pillows tall enough to provide head support if I want to lean back?

2) Dietrich - I cannot tell from the pictures if the top of the sofa is flat or does it curve upwards? Are all three of the back pillows square in shape or do two curve upwards?

Which one of the three would you choose based upon build quality?
What customization does B&Y allow without up charges?
Thank you!

Studdabaker,

I have the Bradington-Young Dietrich sofa and loveseat. The back is curved. I would call it a camelback style and the two end cushions are curved at the top to mimic the curve of the sofa back. The middle cushion is flat. The tailoring is very good and, in my opinion, comparable to a Hancock and Moore chair I have.

[Studdabaker]

Ci2eye, thank you! I appreciate your insight. I have looked at images on the internet and it was difficult to know for sure if the back is curved. In Minnesota it is impossible to find a store that has more than a few B&Y and H&M sofas on their floor and of course none has the ones I like. The mid-to-high furniture market is dominated by stores such as Room&Board, Restoration Hardware, Crate&Barrel, Macy's etc. There are only a handful of small furniture stores left and many times they are primarily pushing a specific lines such as Miles Talbot or in the more rural parts- Smith Bros.

Duane- I know you are reluctant to provide an opinion on information that is based upon personal preferences for fear that a customer will fault you if they don't like the "comfort". If you preface your comments with "This is the general customer feedback about the Bates sofa..." or simply state that you don't sell enough of those sofas. Also, I have read a lot of posts on this site and have gathered a general idea of your personal preferences and I have determined they are very similar to mine; in addition you and I are the same 5' 11" height.

I have enough common sense to know that there is great risk, which I am entirely responsible, with buying a piece of furniture that I have never sat in. That is why I ask a lot of questions, the more I learn the more informed decision. I won't ever be able to know with 100% surety but I want to get in the ballpark. That way I will at least be satisfied that I researched and asked as much as possible.

[drcollie]

"I know you are reluctant to provide an opinion on information that is based upon personal preferences for fear that a customer will fault you if they don't like the "comfort"."

This is exactly the reason I don't do that, and that has happened many times where I recommend a piece, the customer gets it and doesn't like it for some reason. After about a dozen of those incidents, one learns not to express one's subjective opinion too strongly! My goal has always been to try to help folks make good choices, mostly on detailed information on specs, quality, leathers, etc. Not so much on comfort or sit - because that is non-factual and an opinion. While 95% of my customers are understanding and reasonable, the 5% that are not can really stir up a hornet's nest and I try to consider that 5% when I make posts here. And of course, there is no substitute for actually trying out the piece.

One reason I like H&M products so much is I find that for myself and for most people, they are going to like the vast majority of pieces sight unseen. When I go to the showroom at High Point where there are typically 250 H&M Frames showing, I will try them all out (yes, every one) and there may be just 2 or 3 that I really don't care for the way they sit. Then I might go over to Leathercraft where I find half the pieces are ones I don't particularly like the comfort of, though they look nice and are well made. Big Difference, and I don't want my long distance customers to not like a piece they haven't sat in - so I sell the H&M brand with that confidence that most will find they sit well. And on B-Y, since I know you are looking at them, about 2/3's I like, 1/3 not so much.

[goldem]

Studdabaker - I'm guessing the answer to this is yes, but have you looked at Gabbert's in Edina to try and see how the pieces sit? I've been in their store a few times over the past couple of weeks to grab leather samples and to test-sit the pieces they have available and they have a fairly large H&M presence on the floor ranging from married covers to GR5. There's some BY there, but not to the extent of their H&M in sofas.

[Studdabaker]

Thank you, Goldem. Yes, I have been to Gabberts and bought some nice patio furniture from them this past summer. A month or so ago I was there and they had a B&Y Nebo in their clearance section but had a cheap, highly processed leather and still priced higher than what Duane would have quoted me. They really don't have much in B&Y but they do have 6 H&M models although H&M is more than I want to pay at this moment. I also have been to the Sofas and Chairs stores but they are mainly Miles Talbot with the "So you" B&Y line. I would like to avoid the 1/3 of the B&Y models that are not great that Duane is referring to but I feel very limited exposure to B&Y furniture in the Twin Cities.

In an earlier post, around May of last year, you mentioned being at a furniture warehouse and saw a B&Y loveseat with Kodiak Canyon leather. That is one of the leathers I am interested in. Are there any other stores that have B&Y that you know?

Thank you!

[goldem]

Those are the two main stores I'm aware of for BY. Where I found the loveseat was at Gabberts' warehouse clearance sale, which I'm guessing will probably be happening soon again if it was an annual thing. Sorry, but those are the main places in town that I know of.

I'm around your size as well, and the Landry hasn't been bad at all. For me neck/lower head support is key and it does take a little slouching to get support on the Landry, but to be honest I have yet to find a couch that doesn't (for me).

The Kodiak cover is nice and after a year is still holding up well. It does have a a bit of a topcoat, but with a bit of conditioner to draw some dye out any minor marks are no longer an issue.

I will still say the married cover on the Wisner series (the Savoy / 9021 line) has also held up very nicely so considering a finished/painted leather may not be terrible if you're looking at BY as I've been very happy with it (I prefer the hand on it to the samples of H&M's Columbia and Atticus I've got for example). I did have one incident where I needed to apply touchup to a few scratches and they are now completely invisible (after a leaving a leather repair place with a snip of the tag for a little while).