Wanting to buy H&M leather sofa and recliner

[Tabby]

Okay, so after more reading here, I saw somewhere that Duane doesn't really "like" the Document leather (much prefers others instead)? I guess we just accepted what the H&M rep pointed us to--the colors that Journey was available in. Did she just mean the T and C ones, perhaps? There was only the 2 that were in the color we had in mind. Anyway, after explaining to my husband that there are probably other--and better--leathers we didn't see, we are going to look again (at a nearby dealer--I'll never get him back to FLS). I see 'Antelope' discussed. A picture of it in Saddle looks like it might come close to his desired color (brown with hint of red to keep it from being "boring brown"). What's better than 'Document' without breaking the bank to make up the difference? Or, how much more is that sofa in Antelope?

So many things to decide! And I'm indecisive to begin with.

If Journey has about the same comfort level as Austin, I think we should go with that because I just see that extra "flap" (of the 2 cushion back) beckoning to my one playful cat who likes to hide. Also, in the Austin non-powered recliner--the rep said that the foot was heavy enough to cause it to be an issue for some to lower it. We don't want powered and don't want an ottoman for that particular chair (though I LOVED the Austin tilt back).

Thanks!

[drcollie]

That's very true, I don't care for Document, which I refer to as the 'Cheez-Whiz' of leathers. To my eye, it's over-processed, over-painted and can have tiny paint chips over time. But it is soft, and it says PROTECTED on it, which everyone feels they have to have for some reason. However that is the feature hide on the Journey in the Town and Country program, so for those focused on price, that's your leather - and they sell tons of it, too. "Antelope' is a GR 4, and in my opinion not worth the money. It too is a finished, or painted leather that has a very nice look to it, but the color coat is put on so thin to keep it looking supple that its prone to losing bits of its topcoat at well. If you are going to pay GR 4 price, you can get REAL leathers that are in the group, such as Arizona, Capri and Quintessence. Don't buy a leather on color alone, that's a big mistake. You have to look at cut of the hide, how it drapes and the hand, or feel of the hide as well. Myself, I'm a pure aniline guy. I have lots of leather in my house and only one piece - a Hancock and Moore Recliner I bought as my first one in 1986 is in a finished leather. There are even decent GR 1 hides such as Gunner, Columbia, Hutton, Kip that I prefer to the GR 2 Document.

The 'rep's' comment on the Austin recliner shows they were not really a Hancock and Moore Sales Rep, just a furniture store salesman and they are incorrect on that assessment of that recliner. The Austin Recliner is a Wall Hugger, and like all Wall Huggers it runs on a different type of spring system vs a conventional recliner. A conventional recliner is a balanced unit that has its fulcrum in the middle of the chair, so its as easy to close as it is to open, equal forces. Any Wall Hugger runs on a trip mechanism, which springs it FORWARD to get the room to recline. So its a spring-assist to open, then to close it you have to overcome the spring. This is not a problem for a 6' man but the short stature ladies struggle with it. To overcome the spring you have to push down hard on the footrest with your heels to close it. What women tend to do is push down with their thighs, so they are actually pushing on the front of the cushion and the recliner them will not close, in fact the harder they push the more the front edge of the cushion goes into the footrest and we get something known as a 'cushion trap'. The solution is to simple get a wall hugger as a power unit - I recommend it to everyone for that reason. Makes it so much better.

If you don't want an ottoman and don't need a wall hugger or want power , look at the new Westwood recliner from H&M. It's an updated Austin and a conventional mechanism unit.

[Tabby]

Thank you, Duane, for steering us away from the Document and Antelope. I've been scouring the forum posts and see multiple pics of these 2 with problems.

I guess before I fall in love with a GR 4, I should ask you for a price quote to compare the different grades (which I will later).

You say not to choose on color but the cut of the hide and how it drapes. How can we determine that from a small sample in a store that is taken from a less desirable part of the hide? And, color does come into play for us which is a medium- to medium dark brown with reddish "undertones" (not, what my husband calls, boring "solid" chocolate). I know it's not good to go by a monitor's online sample, but at first glance, I think I need to go to the furniture store and take a peek at Arizona 'Bark', Capri 'Butternut' and 'Tobacco', and Quintessence 'Bark' and 'Chestnut'.

I've been needing to make a decision for many months now. To "shove" me along, I got rid of all the furniture in the greatroom and temporarily brought down our Ekornes chairs from the big TV room so we'd have something to sit on. Then, a series of expensive bills at the Vet School held me off. Not to mention that previously, I was interested in fabric and the choices there of color, etc., got overwhelming. It was only after having the other leather chairs in the room and enjoying simply wiping off cat hair instead of vacuuming that swayed me to leather for the sofa (always did intend on a leather recliner, though). And here I am. I don't want to miss the H&M 5% sale!

Thank you so much for all the valuable information you share here! I now know I need to go properly clean and condition our 2 Ekornes leather chairs. They're about 5 yrs old and I've only wiped them down because they're seldom used (until these past few months). It sounds like I need to find out what kind of leather is on them, though, to determine the type of cleaner? We have a leather cleaner than my husband is using on his Audi's leather seats.

[drcollie]

There is a considerable price difference from Town & Country Document to a GR 4 hide, its significant. You are correct, you cannot tell how a leather drapes from a small sample, but you can when seeing it on a piece. I have hundreds of photos here on the forum as well in every leather imaginable, and that's another way to see how a hide makes up. Just try to look at hides without going 90% on color - that's what most consumers do. It can be difficult to get an appreciation for the differences through a computer, it's best to go to a store that shows across the spectrum - such as mine. I keep on average forty-five H&M frames on the showroom floor (and yes, even two in Document) and once I show you customers the differences, they see them in a whole new light. Then there is the price factor. The really nice hides are going to cost more. You have to balance that extra cost from your discretionary income budget and consider it over the useful life of the piece.

There are several Price Grade 1 leathers I prefer to Document, you don't have to go the expensive route. I like Kip, Columbia, Hutton and Gunner more than Document, and they are all GR 1 hides.

Any leather cleaner is better than none at all. Leather Solutions Int'l seems to make the best product overall and is the approved maintenance kit from H&M.

[Tabby]

Looks like I'll be going back over towards FLS because I found a 'Journey' at Boyles to sit in. I'll go this time with an eye for the GR4s, hoping they have some. Will all Capris, etc., be alike each other with just the color difference?

Many thanks.

[drcollie]

Yes, leather in a series name is the same, just colors are different

[Tabby]

Finally got hubby to go see more leather swatches, and as I thought, he didn't like the anilines simply because of the "plain" color (I tried to educate him, Duane, lol). The ones he so far likes best (going by what he wants to see, color-wise) are Dream Bordeaux, Antelope Rust, and Antelope Wine. The Dream would save us a bit, but I worry about the Chinese chemicals vs the European ones used in dyeing/painting/etc. The price difference doesn't concern him. I know Antelope is protected and painted, but is it dyed underneath? Kinda looks like it. Color-wise, I think I lean towards the Rust because it's darker. I'm afraid if the Wine got lighter, it'd be way too red for me. Has anyone seen Antelope Rust in person?

[drcollie]

Antelope comes from the same tannery as Capri and Quintessence, and its a finished hide that doesn't look like a finished leather. The paint is on very thin, to keep it supple. My only issue with this leather is it is pricey, its a GR 4 price point and for that money you can can Arizona, Capri or Quintessence which are considered fine anilines. Dream is a decent hide, nothing wrong with it - but its your garden-variety Chinese painted leather so there is not a lot of inspiration going on there, but it will do its job and do it well if that is what you like. Don't be concerned on China vs Europe chemicals, won't be an issue. Yes, Antelope is pre-dyed, but the topcoat is painted. Rust is a nice color!

[Tabby]

After posting, I was searching the website for some pics of those leathers. I came across Antelope Saddle, but don't recall seeing it in samples (maybe someone had taken it out), so I went to another store that carried H&M to look for it. It seemed the perfect "color". I asked to borrow a few samples (to compare to the ones we already had--looking for the variance in color between batches) and I'm so glad I did. The first Antelope Rust we had (which made hubby fall for it) was dark. This other sample was SO much lighter that he didn't think it could possibly be the same color. Very glad for that visual lesson (even though I know Duane has pointed that out multiple times). The only sample that was virtually the same was the GR2, Dream Bordeaux--it looked identical, so evidently the Chinese are good at "sameness". He LOVED the Antelope Saddle, BUT, I did a scratch test, and it scratched SO much more easily than even the other 2 Antelopes....AND, it wasn't dyed underneath, so it was a stark contrast. Too bad they don't do the "Saddle" like they did the "Rust" (you can tell it's dyed underneath for sure).

Anyway, because the Rust was so much lighter and redder, I brought home the Capri Bordeaux that looked almost like that newest sample of Rust. I did a little "leading the witness" and he came around to how wonderful it felt to the touch, etc. (LoL--don't worry, I only use my powers for good). He doesn't mind the redness of it (that's a me issue--I much prefer browner leathers, but I'm going to lose that one).

So now I'm considering the anilines for sure. Except for the cat issue! I have a drooler. I can't swear he'll stay off the leather, though I know he prefers fabric, and we WILL have fabric in the room because of this.

Before I left the store, though, they wrote down the samples I was taking and then called and checked on availability of the leathers I was interested in. It seems that Capri Bordeaux is out of stock! As was Antelope Rust. AAAARRRGH.

Back to the drawing board....

[drcollie]

The tannery that used to make Capri, Quintessence and Antelope went out of business a few years back. H&M hustled and persuaded a new tannery to produce those, and quite honestly the new product is better and more consistent. If you, or the store, had old samples they could be from the tannery and that is no more, hence why you are seeing a variance. I replace all my store samples every two years, so I don't have stale and old swatches, but most stores do not.

Capri is easy to manage, just get the leather solutions kit (which you should have anyways) and apply the barrier product in the 3rd bottle when you first get the furniture, that's will repel almost all the cat drool, or at least enough to minimize any effect.