Windsor Chairs: Looking to Purchase & Questions

[TXCajun]

Duane,

Somewhere on the GardenWeb, you mentioned that your favorite Windsor is the Wakefield series by Warren Chair Works. Considering that thread was from 2008-ish, and I believe there might have been a company ownership change, and maybe that series no longer exists, what do you now claim as a favorite (a Windsor that is still being offered)?

My husband and I have now decided the time has come to plan our purchase of well-made dining chairs. The Windsor it will be. Since we never could get that money tree to grow, there is a budget. That means we will not be purchasing the $1,000.00+/each chair. We appreciate the skill and artistry that goes into the chair at that price point, but will admire at a distance.

Other than J.L. Treharn, do you represent any other Windsor chair makers? Nothing against J.L. Treharn! Their site shows beautiful chairs. I'm asking only because of your comment about the Wakefield.

For reference, I believe we're most interested in the hoop- or bow-back style. Even though I know we'll have to PM for actual price discussions, I figured I'd start a new thread to update this old topic.

Thanks,
TXCajun

[drcollie]

At one time I was the top-selling Windsor Chair store in the USA. I carried five different makers and would get 220 chairs in my Freightliner per trip. We didn't even have the first piece of leather upholstery on the floor of my store! My, how times have changed. The Windsor chair market was hot in the 80's and 90's but it died about 10 years ago. Where I used to sell 3,000 per year, not I may sell twelve to twenty.. For that reason, I have cut back to just one supplier - Treharn - as the market demand for them has evaporated.

The Warren Chair Works Wakefield is a beauty of a chair, but I dropped the line when Bob Barrow sold the company after starting and running it for 35 years. The new owners didn't even have the decency to call me to introduce themselves and immediately set down new rules and policies that didn't set well with me, so that - as they say - was that. I'm sure you can still purchase them, but I am only doing Treharn at this time.

Thanks!

[TXCajun]

Well, that's interesting, Duane. My husband and I seem to be swimming upstream. We've owned the same 1910-ish oak dining chairs, forever. The two boys finally did them in, despite our Thou Shall Not Exhibit Baboon Behaviors While Dining rules. We have always appreciated traditionally made furniture, and have purchased a few antique and reproduction pieces, here and there. Nothing at the highest end, mind you. Simply solid pieces commensurate with our budget. Now, we are planning our purchase of better dining chairs. I have always drooled over the traditionally made Windsor chairs simply because of how they are constructed and the ease with which they work in almost any decor, through compliment or contrast. My husband is a serious, serious history buff. That's really the basis of his interest in the Windsor chair.

I went back to the Treharn website and more closely studied their finish options for the chairs. A few questions:

1) If selecting Black Over Old Maple Rub, what would Light Distressing add?

2) What is the difference between the Black Rub and the Black/Green Rub? (Can't really tell from the online images.)

3) What exactly is the Heritage Top Coat?

4) If not doing the Seat Upgrade, would the selected Black Over Old Maple Rub carry onto the seat? (Our preference would be the same finish applied to the entire chair.)

Thanks,
TXCajun

[drcollie]

1) If selecting Black Over Old Maple Rub, what would Light Distressing add?

None. You can bang them up yourself!

2) What is the difference between the Black Rub and the Black/Green Rub?

Just the color tones (see above)


Not much, the black-green will be a little lighter and softer looking.

3) What exactly is the Heritage Top Coat?

A toner top coat. Pass on chairs, you don't need it and it won't add.

4) If not doing the Seat Upgrade, would the selected Black Over Old Maple Rub carry onto the seat? (Our preference would be the same finish applied to the entire chair.)

[TXCajun]

Thanks for answering those questions, Duane. I've sent a PM for pricing.

I have a few more questions for you and/or anyone else on the forum living with Windsor chairs.

1) What's the reason for the design differences between a Windsor arm chair and a Windsor continuous arm chair?

2) How does the difference in those arms affect sitting/comfort?

3) Any idea as to how that design difference came about?

4) Anything else to consider when deciding between the arm chair and the continuous arm chair?

Thanks,
TXCajun

[drcollie]

A Brief History of the American Windsor Chair.....

Up until the Windsor Chair came along in England, only Kings and Royalty sat in ornate chairs, common people sat on crude benches, seats or the floor. The English Windsor which was developed in the late 1600's as an affordable chair. When America first began, the Settlers tried to copy the English Windsor but the design was too ornate, and required too high a skill level. The fine woodworkers stayed in England, where life was safe. America was a dangerous place in the early 1700's, and mostly it was the desperate and adventuresome that came here - not seasoned tradesmen. So Americans simplified the English design and in doing so made them lighter, faster and cheaper. They were the first chair the common man could afford and typically cost $ 5 each. It also happened to be the strongest wooden chair design ever made, composed of triangulated bases that were bore and wedge construction when built properly. They were always made of three or more woods and always painted, usually a bright green. The initial designs were bowbacks both in arms and sides, and those came in around the mid 1700's. As the form evolved, more exotic styles came along such as Comb Backs and Fanbacks. The height of windsor chair design was when a chairmaker in Connecticut by the name of E.B. Tracy designed the compound bend Continuous Armchair in the early 1800's. If you can find an original and unmolested Tracy in its painted finish today, you have something very valuable and revered by windsor chair collectors. Many had a V-Brace in the back as the compound bending would tend to crack over time at the hook of the arm, so that V-Brace is highly desirable. Around 1820 all these old windsors had lost much of their paint, so the fashion of the day was to paint them bright colors like white, yellow, blue and red, right over the green (which had turned blackish in 50 years of used). So, if you should ever come across a mustard over black-green chair that is original, you really have something valuable. Few survive however. By the 1840's they were considered out of fashion and went into the attic, outside use or in the barn. In the 1960's those remaining originals were dug out and resurrected, but the trend of the day was to stip the paint off and stain them. That's why you see antique period chairs in stain, that was done about 50 years ago. Many a chair was ruined by that, destroying the antique value. If you want to read more on it, Charles Santore's books on American Windsors are excellent.

Continuous arms tend to be more comfortable than bowbacks, but people associate the :look; of an American Windsor with the Bowback design. Treharn's Continuous Arms sit well, but are historically incorrect. Here's a photo of a Tracy in the green paint, which started out very bright, but weathered to this blackish green. During the 80's this chair would have fetched $ 12K to $ 15K, now days the market has tanked and this could be had for probably $ 3k.

[TXCajun]

Thanks, Duane! I appreciate you taking time to post that information. In my online searches, I did come across mentions of books authored by Santore. Now that you have recommended him, as well, I will see if my local library has any copies.

Would you clarify how the Treharn continuous arm chair is not historically correct? I've studied the picture you posted and the picture on Treharn's website, and the only obvious difference my completely untrained eye notices is that the Tracy chair has extra spindles to the center back. Maybe additional support? ***Ah-ha...After posting this, I realized those extra spindles might be what you refer to as the V-Brace. Is that correct?***

TXCajun

[drcollie]

It's the form factor. Treharn's is larger and clunky-looking with too-wide a seat and too tall a back. Compare to the Tracy, which is more graceful and balanced in design.





However, and this is a big 'but', people were smaller in the 1700's ...much smaller. And that design does not upsize to modern body types well. I have an authentic 1760 Tracy Replica here in the store and most people would not want to sit in it for any length of time..

[TXCajun]

"...a big 'but'..." HA! Very funny, Duane.

Thanks for clarifying that point. Good information.

TXCajun