How to find great leather loveseat at $3000 USD price point?

[Middlinglux]

Buying my first sofa. My goal is 3000. I know the gentleman who runs the forum discourages budget setting in this manner, but I’m not wealthy and have to draw a line somewhere. I would like to know what build quality is feasible at this price point and which makers/brands I should focus on.

I’ve learned 8 way hand tied is gold standard, but wonder if a less expensive suspension from a reputable manufacturer is a reasonable value trade off.

Desire:
- Made in USA.
- Loveseat or apartment sofa (2 seat cushions or bench preferred).
- inner width between 50-65 inches.
- back cushions
- minimalist/modern design
- full aniline leather, top grain at least. I’m open to semi-aniline and seating match to bring down price.
- prefer resilience over softness. Poly foam or springs then? Not into down for bed pillows and assume I won’t like it for sofa. Thoughts?

I’ve ordered leather swatches from some direct to consumer outfits. I started asking for quotes from local shops that carry higher end brands (HM, Century etc). But those seem like they cater to designers. I’m worried about the markups and lack of pricing transparency- hate having to ask for a quote and play phone tag when I just want straight pricing to comparison shop.

Thanks in advance!

Edit: Forgot to say I’m on the west coast SoCal

[drcollie]

California has very high upholstery store prices, which is why I have about 1,000 customers there and it, along with Texas, are my largest ship-to states. Finding a higher quality sofa to order in those specs from your local dealers won't be easy, the best way to shop is get a floor model somewhere that is marked down. However, your timing for such a deal is bad right now. Due to shortages, dealers cannot restock easily so there is no incentive for them to aggressively mark down as they can't get pieces to replace their display models for 5 to 6 months.

There is no rocket science in sofa making. Everyone knows how to build it the right way and if the do it as a quality build they will be above your price limit ceiling that you have set for yourself. Manufacturers knows this, so they decide they need to sell a sofa for "X" dollars in cost to build and that $ 3K number is pretty common as a stop point, so they will begin taking away build features and component quality to get to that number. The most expensive things in a sofa build in order are 1) Leather itself 2) Foam 3) Suspension 4) Labor. In each category you will make concessions to get to a price delta. The trick is to be able to notice these variances and reductions and decide how much that affects what you are buying. Another way to think about his is to grade makes and builds. A, B, C, D, F, like in school. Assigning grades is arbitrary of course.

And that is what this forum is for. To help educate. While I can't re-type 13 years of posts here, all the information is already here in one form or another as to what makes one piece better than another. And then of course, there are things that cannot have a cost value assigned to them such as design form, or pitch angles, or even workers paying attention to what they are doing.

"Direct to Consumer Sellers" I am not a fan of. I know younger buyers are very attracted to them and the philosophy is "I'm cutting out the middleman, therefore I will get more for my money and I can shop online". I have never - ever - seen better than a "C" quality build from a direct-to-consumer builder so my experience with them is they are mediocre at best. Not only from a quality standpoint, but from sitting comfort as well. The reality is these web-sellers are banking on your lack of expertise in knowing what makes a quality build and the hassle to return something. I have a saying in furniture that "everything is pretty good when it's new, from an inexpensive mattress to a $ 400 recliner. But how are they in a year?" It takes decades to build high-quality product that generates brand name recognition, you don't find that in web-sellers, they come and go like the wind blows. Their clientele is almost always younger customers and they rarely get repeat business. It's one and done, and onto the next person.

True story....

My own daughter buys her furniture from Direct-To-Consumer suppliers, and she is 30 years old. Her Old Man (that's me) owns a furniture store and she lives just 20 miles away, yet she insists on buying that junk in a box. My wife tells me to keep quiet about it and so I do. She's married two years and they bought their first house last December 2020. Her Direct-To-Consumer sofa she paid $ 2,000 for just five years earlier had disintegrated and wasn't worth moving to the new house, it was going to the landfill. She ordered another Direct-To-Consumer sofa for another $ 2,400 but then found out like many have that there was a 6 month wait on new furniture. She needed something they could use in their new house. I told her to cancel the order and I would bring her a Hancock and Moore Ava sofa I had in stock that was her style. She was like "Dad, I can't afford that". My reply was "First off, its false economy to keep chucking out $ 2K sofas every five years, in a 20-year period you will have gone through $ 8K in sofas vs the one H&M at $ 4K that will last the same time period. Do the math!" And then I did what Dad's do and gave it to her as a house-warming present. That was 5 months ago and both her and her husband tell me that they love it. It sits better than anything they have ever owned before and they love the style, its very cool and gets used more than any other piece in the house. I tell them like I do everyone "Keep it cleaned and conditioned and you won't have to replace it for the next two decades, or more and it's true.

You'll have to give up some of your criteria to fit your budget. Aim for a B grade sofa, they lack the builds of the A grade units, but will fit your price constraint. You will have things like a lack of foam on side panels and back, screw on legs vs one piece to the frame, less suspension, a drop in leather quality somewhat, maybe give up 20% on your comfort level, but the piece will last and give you good service. I'd recommend Bradington Young which will be close to your $ 3K number from dealers that will discount.

Good luck in your search.

[Middlinglux]

Thanks for the reply, Duane. What can you tell me about the Bradington Young Plaza Midwood Collection? In terms of construction, price, availability etc.

General q: Is drop in suspension a middle ground between true 8 way hand tied and something like sinuous spring?

I’m tempted to order from your side of the country but shipping becomes cost prohibitive. One of the reasons I’m looking new and not second hand is so I don’t have to carry this thing to my 3rd floor walk up.

Thanks again!

[Middlinglux]

Well, I think I have a promising lead that checks my boxes. It’s one of the offerings from Leathergroups. I found a couple posts here about them. Basically, they do direct to consumer orders from a factory partner. Almost identical to Casco Bay, who I also checked out. Unlike Casco, Leathergroups has an office near me, with models I can make an appointment to view. I’ll update if I go down this road.

They do solid hardwood, 8 way hand tied, aniline leathers, out of a CA factory. The pricing seems a little too good for all of that. But if you figure they don’t pay showroom overhead, maybe it makes sense? The B-Y 2019 msrp list had similar size sofas at 7-8k. So this would be a little under 50% of that msrp, which is where you said to calibrate expectations.

[drcollie]

Well, I think I have a promising lead that checks my boxes. It’s one of the offerings from Leathergroups. I found a couple posts here about them. Basically, they do direct to consumer orders from a factory partner. Almost identical to Casco Bay, who I also checked out. Unlike Casco, Leathergroups has an office near me, with models I can make an appointment to view. I’ll update if I go down this road.

They do solid hardwood, 8 way hand tied, aniline leathers, out of a CA factory. The pricing seems a little too good for all of that. But if you figure they don’t pay showroom overhead, maybe it makes sense? The B-Y 2019 msrp list had similar size sofas at 7-8k. So this would be a little under 50% of that msrp, which is where you said to calibrate expectations.

I don't know LEATHERGROUPS as they appear to be regional rather than national, but from their website photos they are building it the right way. Those photos look as if they are right out of Hancock and Moore, that's real hardwood, real 8-way hand-tied suspension. Could be a good find, I really don't know.

The B-Y Midwood collection is a new Design Your Own stationary program - nothing particularly different or unique from what they already make.

[Middlinglux]

The B-Y Midwood collection is a new Design Your Own stationary program - nothing particularly different or unique from what they already make.

It definitely looks geared toward buyers in my demo.

Are you familiar with the Century Essex program? It has a lot of customization options, but I can’t find a price list. I also can’t figure out how to choose the leathers for it. Waiting to hear back from a store with a quote.

[drcollie]

Century Essex is another Design Your Own program in leather. I'm a dealer for B-Y, Century both an in my opinion you will get a better made piece at an aggressive price point from Hancock and Moore if you stay in their Town and Country promotion that from either of those two companies.

[Middlinglux]

Interested in Town and Country, if you can provide links to the new program. I think you said somethings coming out April 2021 but I can’t find it posted here. For that program, they have loveseats on some items? I’m looking for that interim “apartment” size.

For the record, I generally dislike the H&M styling, but some of those 2019 TC pieces are pretty good looking.

[drcollie]

The new Town and Country program is over 40 pages to scan, so I will get to it as time allows.